Kex Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I was talking with my brother this past weekend while boarding, and he seems convinced that having a freshly sharpened board is extremely important(hes mainly a skidder, so I'd like some input from this POV as well). I disagree. My rationale is that snow isn't exactly hard to cut, so having an extremely sharp board isn't exactly a huge deal. Whether your board is a steak knife or a butter knife, either one will cut into snow without difficulty. I can understand how it is a little different when you are dealing with ice, and we are east coast riders, so we deal with a lot of ice, but even so, it seems to me that whether your board can slice your finger open or not, its still a very small amount of surface area(by which I mean the length of the edge) that you are talking about. Since I don't have a huge amount of experience in the tuning department, and I am basically going off of my own messed up logic. I figured I would ask you all. I know that many of you tune your own boards, so I figured it would be best to hear your opinions on the matter. So: How important is tuning your edges(both for skidding and carving)? Is it more important to sharper your edges for icy conditions than perfect cord? How often should it be done? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I had a first hand awakening call other day. Conditions were frozen granullar with few ice patches and few softer patches. I got totally surprised that Donek Vlad had more edge hold then Virus Vampire. Vamire is titanal and softer flexing, wich has to result in better edge hold on ice. When it was new (to me) and very sharp, no other board of mine came even close. Now it's somewhat dull (not horribly dull, just it could be sharper), while Donek was very sharp that evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 A proper tune and wax can be the difference between a great day and a crappy day. Read about it, learn, ask questions, do as much of it as you are able. It is important. Think Snow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 A proper tune and wax can be the difference between a great day and a crappy day. Read about it, learn, ask questions, do as much of it as you are able. It is important.Think Snow Truth. Think smooth too, not just sharp. Smoooooth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdietz Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Your logic could not be more misguided when thinking about alpine/carving. I can tell you that I bought a new to me board that I took and got "tuned" locally here in Co Springs. The board is like new. The shop owner de-tuned the tip and tail. I took it out and was very disappointed in the performance and I kept washing out on heel side carves. I borrowed an edge sharpener from a friend and sharpened the full effective edge with a 0 degree till it almost cut my finger. The next time out I was completely impressed me with it's edge control and turn in ablity. The control was 100% improved so I'm absolutely conviced that to de-tune is to be avoided at all cost. Even though you may think that it's a small amount of real estate but @ 170+ cm, it turns out to be more than you'd think and it makes a huge difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawndoggy Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Local EC hero told me on the chair that he never sharpens his edges cuz if the snow's too hard to get an edge he'd rather not be riding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian M Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 It totally depends on the conditions. I was having a blast riding a worn-out 8-year-old Factory prime when the snow was soft at the beginning of the season, but the first hard day was horrible. I was putting massive pressure on the edges, and they still would just barely grip. I haven't struggled that much in years. Had a full base grind and tune done on it three weeks ago, and all of a sudden I can lay carves across boilerplate like it's fresh groom. Do I feel a difference in soft snow though? No. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 get a PTC tune and you'll realize. a waxed base is not nearly as important unless you are racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Local EC hero told me on the chair that he never sharpens his edges cuz if the snow's too hard to get an edge he'd rather not be riding. HOLY ****! best jab at the EC guys I've seen in awhile! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdyno Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I was out last week on a freshly waxed/sharpened board (it might as well be sloped skating rinks here in ontario) and it was so much better than the last time I had been out. I even ended up de-tunig about four inches on the front of the board to get it to relax a little. Just a small adjustment like that can make a big difference. I rode Swain, NY on saturday and had hills that were more icy than home. I had base burn along about 1.5 inches up either side by the end of the day even though I only had a day since the last wax. Guess what I am doing before friday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kex Posted January 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Ok, thanks for the comments, starting to see that it does actually matter. I get the importance for carving on ice, I can imagine that an unsharpened board carving on boilerplate is sort of like being on an ice rink on dull ice skates. Any input on how helpful an edge tune is on the skidding side of things?(i know this isnt a skidding forum, but i'll ask anyway). Also, how often do those of you that tune your own boards tune your edges? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I'm curious why edge sharpness matters when you're in stuff that you leave 2-3" deep trenches in. You're effectively creating a ledge that you stand on, who cares how sharp that edge is when it's not supporting much load anymore? Not being argumentative, I've genuinely wondered this before as well. (I'll keep sharpening my edges, I'm happy when I can leave 1" deep ruts in our 'snow' around here. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davekempmeister Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Maybe not perfectly analogous but consider the difference between poor and high quality cutlery. Perhaps a resident chef hear on Bomber could weigh in. Sharpened cutlery, tools and the like bring real pleasure when they operate efficiently. Most knives will cut, just a matter of how well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowboardfast Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I tune and wax my boards rather frequently to keep them sharp and gliding well. I don't use a file once I set the bevels- just a diamond stone in an edge tool and stones after that to polish the edge. That way I am not removing material from the edges - I am simply touching them up to keep them smooth and sharp. I touch up the edges every time I wax the board which I do after a few days of riding. I just hotwax with a light layer during the season so that I am almost not scraping much wax off but I do this when the base starts to look a little dry on the edges. I don't let my edges get dull as it is more fun to ride a board that is sharp. Your edges will get burred and rough rather quickly if they are not maintained. I bought the tools to do this myself as I like to do it and don't want to have to take my board to the shop to get it done. I just try to keep my edges fairly nice- I am not going to spend 3 hrs tuning them to absolute perfection like a worldcup racer might. Of course racers have a training board and a race board. The training board gets beat up riding every day and the other board is ridden for the race only. After the season is over I will put a heavier coat of wax on the board and not scrape it off until I go ride the next season. I also will fill gouges with a p tex candle if needed. If the board needs a base weld I will take it to a shop. I learned how to do this to save money and keep my stuff ready to go. Board tuning is funto do and I am not an expert at it. I just do it on a basic level for recreational riding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Ride at Tussey much? If so, you need sharp edges. Especiallly on the ice coast, it is imperative to sharen every couple times you go out, or if you hit a rock and ding something. Mind you out here, I don't sharpen as much as the snow is much softer, and I've hit all sorts of rocks and it doesn't bother me, but back east it was a big deal. Lived in State College long? I used to be the GM of Zola Bistro, up until last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chippermon Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Here in Thunder Bay we get a lot of boilerplate. Sharp edges make all the difference. Like Snowboard Fast, I have been tuning my own gear too. I had to lay out a good chunk of dough for the startup but it is way worth it. i agree it is kind of fun plus I know it is being done right. Better control of angles and wax selection to suit conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 It's important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kex Posted January 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Ride at Tussey much? If so, you need sharp edges. Especiallly on the ice coast, it is imperative to sharen every couple times you go out, or if you hit a rock and ding something.Mind you out here, I don't sharpen as much as the snow is much softer, and I've hit all sorts of rocks and it doesn't bother me, but back east it was a big deal. Lived in State College long? I used to be the GM of Zola Bistro, up until last year. Thats pretty cool, Zola's is a nice place to grab a good beer. fairly expensive though, at least for a college student:freak3:.Nice to see someone else that knows state college on these forums! I've ridden at tussey a few times in the past couple yrs, though never on a carving board before this year. I was actually there Monday and it was pretty much a skating rink, but it was good training. I figure if you can carve the ice on Tussey, you can carve anything. I'm planning to go tomorrow(we just got 2 inches today, hooray!), since I don't have class on thursdays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGogoussier Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I'm curious why edge sharpness matters when you're in stuff that you leave 2-3" deep trenches in. You're effectively creating a ledge that you stand on, who cares how sharp that edge is when it's not supporting much load anymore? The trench does not exist ahead of your board. Your edge has to cut through the surface to open it up. Only then does your board have the support required to oppose the centrifugal force, remain flexed and keep cutting on as you lead it into the turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tufty Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 The trench does not exist ahead of your board. Your edge has to cut through the surface to open it up. Only then does your board have the support required to oppose the centrifugal force, remain flexed and keep cutting on as you lead it into the turn. Yep. Except... ...it's the front of the edge that cuts the trench, the part of the edge that is usually detuned to be dull. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I think about this question all the time—the fundamental question of...what's more important for the *average* rider—the gear? Or technique? (Yeah, yeah...I know..."Both!") But seriously—pick a sport, any sport—and chances are high that even if you're an "advanced amateur" in the sport...someone who is on the U.S. team will be able to take old, beat-to-hell gear (including a dull-edged board) and still kick your butt all over the place. To me, this completely undermines the notion that gear is critical. My point is that while I certainly don't seek to use crappy gear...I've always believed that what's in your brain (and through extension, muscle memory) is WAY more important than the gear you're using. For example, what if your board's edges are dull, but you are a master of weighting the entire length of the edge perfectly...and perfectly shifting that weight to precisely where it needs to be at any given point in a turn? (No, I'm nowhere close to that!) Now I suppose if you think you could kick an Olympic team member's butt if you're riding a sharp board and they're on a dull one...then that's different. :) But I doubt many here would say that... Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik J Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 If I'm out riding and I know that all of my equipment is sharpened, tightened, waxed etc, and I'm sucking, then I know that the only weak link in the equation is me. Technique has taken me farther than anything else, but having the right tool for the job has allowed me to explore that techniuqe more so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjholm Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 get a PTC tune and you'll realize.a waxed base is not nearly as important unless you are racing. Just had Mike tune my Coilers --- BIG difference!! Not cheap but worth it IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Technique has taken me farther than anything else, but having the right tool for the job has allowed me to explore that technique more so. Very, very well said... this quote could apply to so many discussions on this forum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Technique has taken me farther than anything else, but having the right tool for the job has allowed me to explore that techniuqe more so. That *is* very well said and true...BUT...many people (in many sports) obsess far more over gear and arcane minutiae than technique. Gear can be lost or damaged...but technique is part of YOU forever. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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