How important is a well-tuned board?

[GeoffV]

Why is everyone talking about racing? no sh*t you are going to wax if you race, the whole point of racing is going fast. Did you even read what I was asking?

It doesn't make a difference if your racing or not a well tuned board will ride perform better. As i stated in my 1st post, West coast hero snow is an exception to the rule.

How many years have you be carving??

12 years ago I couldn't tell a difference between a tuned and not tuned board, but now after 22 years of carving I can.

[Kex]

Kex,

I think you have it in your head that tuning doesn't matter and you are just waiting for somebody else to agree with you.

Ease off the contradictory tone in your posts and you might find it gets a little easier here.

John

I don't feel that I'm concrete in my stance. As I said before, I'm trying to keep an open mind, and all I have asked for for quite some time is a techinical explanation, i.e. the physics behind it, that makes a freshly waxed(not talking about sharpened anymore) board perform better(and by perform I dont mean finish faster in a race, I mean help you to carve better).

But you are correct, i have been a little defensive in my stance, I'll ease off.

It doesn't make a difference if your racing or not a well tuned board will ride perform better. As i stated in my 1st post, West coast hero snow is an exception to the rule.

How many years have you be carving??

12 years ago I couldn't tell a difference between a tuned and not tuned board, but now after 22 years of carving I can.

I have been officially hardboot "carving" for less than one year(first time on hardboots was early march of last year), but I've been been snowboarding for 14 or 15 years.

Also, i have never back to back compared an untuned board to a freshly tuned board, other than the aforementioned casual board switch between my dad and I. This is why I am asking for a technical explanation behind it. I've heard from enough of you to realize I'm most likely wrong, but I want to know exactly why it is that a fresh wax helps.

[Guest]

Also, friction is a constant force. It will not cause your base to suddenly grab the snow once you are going mach 2. It will be a constant slowing factor from when you first start moving until when you next stop.

"Safe is when you have more control, NOT when the snow has more control."

I completely agree with this statement, however I dont believe a new wax gives you more control. I'll relate it to walking down a sidewalk. With your argument, a new wax is better. This is equivalent to saying a lower coefficient of friction is better. Ice has a very low coefficient of friction, its what causes us to slip on it. Are you saying that you have more control over yourself on an icy sidewalk than on a clean one?

The fact is you dont have more control on an icy sidewalk. Its actually better to be on a snowy sidewalk than an icy one, because we can grip snow with the treads on our shoes. This is the same reason we prefer hero snow to boilerplate. We can grip the snow with our edges better than we can grip ice. friction is our friend.

Anyway, if anyone can give me an actual explanation as to why my logic is flawed, I would love to hear it. I feel I am open minded, and my views on edge sharpening have been changed. Obviously, considering that so many people are telling me that it is important, I cannot completely disregard their opinions, but what I am looking for is not unfounded claims, just an explanation

Like it was previously said, snow is a variable surface. Different conditions can happen for many different reason, as small as getting sun or not getting sun on the slope.

And you compare what Phil said to walking on a sidewalk, because, obviously, snowboarding is very similar to walking on a sidewalk.

Let's compare what Phil said to ice skating. Suppose you have an idiot tuning your skates. It's all roughed up, and he didn't get all the rust off of the blade. Think you're going to be moving in a safe manner on the ice? Nope. The rust will grab and you will fall on your face. Obviously this isn't a perfect analogy, but it sure beats the heck out of the walking on the sidewalk one.

Everyone here has made well phrased, logical, intelligible responses as to why tuning is important. If you haven't grasped it by now, just delete the thread, because I don't think you're going to get it.

[Zone]

I have been officially hardboot "carving" for less than one year(first time on hardboots was early march of last year), but I've been been snowboarding for 14 or 15 years.

Give the guy a break. The explanation is right there, we've been all through it.

[Jack M]

undeleted per Kex's request.

[John Gilmour]

Ever want to find out if your thoughts are moving in the correct direction??

Take it to an extreme.

Kex- you postulate having a board with more friction (untuned) makes for a "safer snowboard".

Ok I'll bite.

So instead of waxing wrong ..ie too soft (High friction) or no wax at all still high friction- though not as bad....

let's go for "extreme safety"

Now I know you don't believe my post about friction on steeps... according to what you say take a board with a very high static friction and ride the steepest trail you can find. See if you can link carved turns on steeps.

According to what you say and your well thought out calculations as a budding engineer... it should be no problem.... in fact you should be able to handle the steeps better and safer according to your calculations with a snowboard with high static friction. Higher friction bases are safer right? According to what you said...

So...Lets go for a really "safe snowboard". One you won't have to wax ever again.

It's a really cheap experiment.. about $20 in skateboard grip tape.... far far less than a high quality wax job... quick and easy to apply. cover the entire bottom of your board with skateboard griptape...sandpaper side out.

And according to your hypothesis- which you say is sound... the board will be safer- and slower. I'll readily agree it will be slower... but your argument is that it is safer... go out and link some "safer turns" on the steeps.

- just make sure your health insurance is up to date before trying this out.

There is a reason they don't make wooden bottom downhill skis anymore.

Sometimes..I say things that closes threads.. sorry.. but this thread has to die....here.

[b0ardski]

crystaline structures have sharp edges, this is why sandblasting works so well. Snow & ice will shred ptex that is not protected.

[philfell]

Slower board is not safer.

The reason an unwaxed board is slower is because it does not slide as quickly on the snow. Hence the snow "grabs" it more to cause it to be slower. This means you must put more effort into making the board to what you want, because the snow is trying to hold it in place.

Safe is when you have more control, NOT when the snow has more control.

Kex you keep saying that no one is offering an explination, The above quote I feel sums up well why a waxed board is better than an unwaxed on. Yes you are right there is no scientific data presented here, but I feel you should be able to follow the concept.

You have more control over a board that slides on the snow versus a board that is grabbed by the snow.