daveo Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 7 hours ago, Jack M said: I measured my K168. Indeed the radius is longest around the waist. In fact, there is about a 10cm span around the waist where the width of the board is a constant 202mm. So the radius goes much longer (infinitely longer) than 12m in the center of the board. The published 8-12 is merely an approximated representation. All that said, 8-12m feels about right, and your statements above are consistent with my experience. It is simply the most unique and effective sidecut I've ever tried. Try a K168 and an MK first. @AcousticBoarder above is good info. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 22 hours ago, bigwavedave said: Thirst sidecut likes to complete turns, just keep it on edge and/or apply more pressure to turn tighter. Kessler has a race-course derived variable sidecut radius, so adds fore and aft rider weight distribution to the turning equation; get back on the tail=less turning, nose pressure=tighter turn. The K168 finishes turns bigtime. It really is their magic freecarver. It's my go-to board for ice or crowds. By itself it's awesome. Add a plate and it goes to 11. I haven't ridden a pure SL 162, but the 168 is nothing at all like my 180, which definitely seems like it has a longer radius in the tail than the nose. I believe the KST theory is that due to the tighter radii towards the ends of the board, and the decambered tip and tail, when you let the board run longer, you're not tilting it up as much and not engaging the tighter sidecut at the ends of the board. This makes the board very easy and agreeable to coast and surf. During aggressive carving you tilt the board up higher, and engage the ends of the board. The tighter radii there bend the board, but the longer radius in the middle prevents the board from kinking, as single radius boards can do. The clothoid shape of the sidecut, a.k.a. Euler spiral, is a continuous curve. I feel this works significantly better than simply joining 2 or 3 radii together. First run on mine last year I could feel that it was different and better than any sidecut I'd ridden before. It's like it has the comfort of a long board with the turn size of a short board when you want it. I'm a believer. http://www.kessler-swiss.com/en-US/technology/kesslerShapeTechnology Sorry for the thread-jack Shred! Thirst has certainly earned an impressive reputation in a relatively short amount of time. Thanks for the details of the purchase experience, sounds great. I'm glad we have another builder to choose from on this continent! 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 On 3/27/2019 at 8:50 AM, Jack M said: The K168 finishes turns bigtime. It really is their magic freecarver. It's my go-to board for ice or crowds. By itself it's awesome. Add a plate and it goes to 11. I haven't ridden a pure SL 162, but the 168 is nothing at all like my 180, which definitely seems like it has a longer radius in the tail than the nose. Kessler should mention on his website that the 168 has a different sidecut geometry than all his other alpine race boards. My 180 & 162 definitely required extra input to complete turns or they would go off for the fall line and build up speed. Loved the ride, not the sidecut. Only had 2 runs on the 168 on frozen groom in flat light, so didn't get to fully explore it's potential, but that it felt very similar to my 175 Rev (11-12scr). I had assumed it had the same Kessler sidecut as all his other alpine boards. I believe the KST theory is that due to the tighter radii towards the ends of the board, and the decambered tip and tail, when you let the board run longer, you're not tilting it up as much and not engaging the tighter sidecut at the ends of the board. This makes the board very easy and agreeable to coast and surf. During aggressive carving you tilt the board up higher, and engage the ends of the board. The tighter radii there bend the board, but the longer radius in the middle prevents the board from kinking, as single radius boards can do. First run on mine last year I could feel that it was different and better than any sidecut I'd ridden before. It's like it has the comfort of a long board with the turn size of a short board when you want it. I'm a believer. I don't know what sidecut geometry Mark uses in Thirst boards, but Crackaddict described it as being just the opposite of what you described above, ie, tight in the middle and straighter towards the endsSame result. My experience riding the Thirst boards is exactly as you describe in the above paragraph how your 168 feels and rides, including that it was apparent from the very first turns that this board's ride, and particularly the sidecut, was different and better than any I'd ridden before. Sorry for the thread-jack Shred! Thirst has certainly earned an impressive reputation in a relatively short amount of time. Thanks for the details of the purchase experience, sounds great. I'm glad we have another builder to choose from on this continent! Thread Jack indeed!(pun intended). Jack, I hope you keep an open mind and give the "new-comer" board builder a chance and try one of his boards someday, even if you don't think you need one in your quiver. Knowing now that the 168 has a different sidecut geometry than other Kessler alpine race boards, I'll look forward to the opportunity to test drive one again, hopefully on better conditions. And I'll also add, like @Shred Gruumer, I have no investment, nor am I compensated in any way by Thirst or any other builders, I also just like good boards. I've met Mark and he's a great guy, and humble I might add. I've been fortunate to meet and hang out with both Sean and Bruce at SES and have some favorite boards built by each of them (both called Rev btw). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carvin' Marvin Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 My 8RW in murder black arrived this morning! It is absolutely beautiful. The finish on the thing is incredible. The finished product is pretty much exactly what I expected. It really stands apart from the other boards in my quiver. Im going to attempt to go riding in the morning between shifts. Will report back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shred Gruumer Posted March 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 3 hours ago, Carvin' Marvin said: My 8RW in murder black arrived Photos?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carvin' Marvin Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 Like everyone else said, you just can't capture how damn shiny this thing is in photos. There are a few slightly lighter snowflakes that don't show up in the pics either. My first impression is this thing seems super stout. I typically have issues with the upper exposed titanal layer on other boards getting bent up or chipping so I'm interested to see how this thing holds up to my particular brand of abuse. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carvin' Marvin Posted April 2, 2019 Report Share Posted April 2, 2019 I was able to take it out this morning after working 13 hours overnight so neither my legs or brain were super fresh. Initial impressions are super positive. I'm going to take it for a more serious ride on Thursday so I'm going to wait until then to share my full thoughts in the review section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabe T Posted April 2, 2019 Report Share Posted April 2, 2019 (edited) On 3/31/2019 at 2:59 AM, Carvin' Marvin said: Like everyone else said, you just can't capture how damn shiny this thing is in photos. There are a few slightly lighter snowflakes that don't show up in the pics either. My first impression is this thing seems super stout. I typically have issues with the upper exposed titanal layer on other boards getting bent up or chipping so I'm interested to see how this thing holds up to my particular brand of abuse. Looks nice! What sort of topsheet material is used? Is that a graphic print on plastic top? It almost has a textured look to it. When you refer to bent up and chipping metal is that from lift chair dings? Edited April 3, 2019 by Gabe T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted April 2, 2019 Report Share Posted April 2, 2019 There was a bit of discussion regarding the topsheet material in the above thread. Kessler has been using it too. 3 hours ago, Gabe T said: Looks nice! What sort of toosheet material is used on the top? Is that a graphic print on plastic top? It almost has a textured look to it. When you refer to bent up and chipping metal is that from lift chair dings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carvin' Marvin Posted April 3, 2019 Report Share Posted April 3, 2019 14 hours ago, Gabe T said: When you refer to bent up and chipping metal is that from lift chair dings? Chairlift dings and trees/anything wood are what gets me most. I find that wood slivers really like to get under that top titanal layer causing it to wrinkle a bit then if it gets hit again it chips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted April 3, 2019 Report Share Posted April 3, 2019 26 minutes ago, Carvin' Marvin said: Chairlift dings and trees/anything wood are what gets me most. I find that wood slivers really like to get under that top titanal layer causing it to wrinkle a bit then if it gets hit again it chips. You mainly freeride? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carvin' Marvin Posted April 3, 2019 Report Share Posted April 3, 2019 I take them everywhere. Popping in and out of trees, short bursts in moguls, park, high alpine, etc. Surfing groomers is my preferred environment, but variety is the spice of life right? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimW Posted April 3, 2019 Report Share Posted April 3, 2019 (edited) The kessler website says Clothoid, but according to the image in the link below the center is constant and the tip and tail deviate. http://www.kessler-swiss.com/en-US/technology/kesslerShapeTechnology My guess would be that the image is an engineering approximation of the clothoid curve that the difference is negligible for practical purposes. If somebody feels the urge to do the math..... edit: I noticed that I did not read up to the end of the thread when I posted this..... Edited April 3, 2019 by TimW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted April 3, 2019 Report Share Posted April 3, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, TimW said: The kessler website says Clothoid, but according to the image in the link below the center is constant and the tip and tail deviate. @TimW If you were to interpolate (in a specific way, not linearly) between those radii, it is a clothoid spiral or more technically an Euler spiral (pronounced "Oiler"). Of course, it isn't an entire Euler spiral, just part of one. So the geometry is actually comprised of 4 'parts' of an euler spiral (or possibly combined spirals of differing variables) to create the front and rear. I think it is possible two or more things are happening here, either 1 formula and inverted twice on both axis and set about a setback point or 2 formula each inverted about the longitudinal axis of the board to create different front and rear effect from weighting. Or possibly, multiple spirals are joined together and then inverted if a single spiral can not be defined to create the desired properties. I think the diagram is just a nice way of showing people who aren't really interested in the math behind an Euler spiral, roughly how it is devised, that is, it gets smaller and smaller to the tip and at the 'mid point' of the board, it is very large, approaches infinity from both ends. Edited April 3, 2019 by daveo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boardguru Posted April 3, 2019 Report Share Posted April 3, 2019 Carvin' Marvin, in your picture it looks as if you are putting a custom 'stone grind' on you new Thirst board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carvin' Marvin Posted April 3, 2019 Report Share Posted April 3, 2019 2 hours ago, boardguru said: Carvin' Marvin, in your picture it looks as if you are putting a custom 'stone grind' on you new Thirst board. Lol. I wouldn't dare. Old pic on my short proteus. I think the thirst would gain lift and paraglide away. I just posted it because I have some deep-seated psychological need to show you guys how awesome I think I am. Probably something to do with Freud. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slopestar Posted April 3, 2019 Report Share Posted April 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Carvin' Marvin said: I have some deep-seated psychological need to show you guys how awesome I think I am C’mon Aaron. Bar far the funnest guy to follow(try to follow) on the mountain on any given day. Larger than normal carving bubble for your sake not his Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boardguru Posted April 4, 2019 Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 It is a Great picture of hard booting air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnasmo Posted April 9, 2019 Report Share Posted April 9, 2019 Never tried a K168, but have Thirst 8RW and Superconductor. From what is described for the K168 sidecut, I think they take a different approach to variable sidecut. They differ from radial in very different ways. I'm a bit surprised that a 8-12-8(?) VSR could hold longer turns well on ice. Snappy initiation, yes, but concentrating the edge pressure at the tip and tail when the board isn't forming a trench would, I think, leave the center carrying too little load, supported by the board's center stiffness instead of the snow. With the turning forces concentrated at the ends of the tip and tail, eventually their hold risks being overwhelmed. Thirst flex/sidecut seems to be designed to keep edge bite underfoot. Slower initiation, but then like you're riding an ice skate between the bindings. I think that's what leads to the stay-centered riding style -- no need to chase the bite elsewhere, feels funny if you do. So both fun, but I suspect very different rides. Buy both. $$$ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted April 10, 2019 Report Share Posted April 10, 2019 so if I bought a kessler and said it was great, would you guys be arguing about thirsts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted April 10, 2019 Report Share Posted April 10, 2019 2 hours ago, b0ardski said: so if I bought a kessler and said it was great, would you guys be arguing about thirsts? lol... we been here long enough to know that is a resounding yes. As the weather gets warmer; we will start to argue about everything... the sky is too blue; change my mind I think it's a great compliment to Mark and Thirst or any board maker. In a sense BMW M care is the yard stick and seems Kessler 168 is the same for Alpine snowboard. Recalled not long ago; information on Thirst Snowboard was being suppress. Change is unavoidable and sometime good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokolikrat Posted April 10, 2019 Report Share Posted April 10, 2019 On 4/9/2019 at 9:05 AM, johnasmo said: Thirst flex/sidecut seems to be designed to keep edge bite underfoot. Slower initiation, this is so far the most important information for me I found about Thirst boards. I talk to Mark a couple times he seams to be really nice guy. My concern was the almost all reviews were written hard core Coilers rider. And you just love these boards or not. After surgery on my foot several years ago I can’t put pretty much any pressure on the tip of my front foot so my toe side turns really suffer. And I did not master Jorg’s Style of riding. This was main reason to get Kessler 62 which should have a starting radius of 7m. Well it did not work I just don’t like that side cut shape. So without trying Thirst on the snow I am not willing just blindly buy another board. But where to try it? It was the best thing on SES ability to check different boards. So my last two custom boards built by Frank still work the best. I also liked MK a couple years ago but probably would like it a little bit wider for shallower angles.Maybe just simple side cut working the best for me. What is MK around 9m? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dredman Posted April 10, 2019 Report Share Posted April 10, 2019 Thirst had a whole demo fleet at 2019 Montucky Clear CUT. I imagine Thirst will again in 2020. As well as other manufacturers.. had Coiler, Exlgi, Ace Skwal, and Alloy at the 2019 session. I expect more builders for 2020 demos at the MCC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokolikrat Posted April 10, 2019 Report Share Posted April 10, 2019 I know but not everyone has time to get in the middle of nowhere. I was checking this winter and it was pretty much nightmare Wasting two days on travel something I can’t afford in current job. If this will be future carvers meeting place it will not make this sport more popular for sure. Close event in probably in one of the most remote resort in America. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted April 10, 2019 Report Share Posted April 10, 2019 Continuing talking about anything but the thread title... 38 minutes ago, Ladia said: If this will be future carvers meeting place it will not make this sport more popular for sure. Simple solution: Just spend hundreds of hours to organize your own event for your friends. How many people started hardbooting/alpine riding after seeing it at the Aspen sessions? I'd be surprised if it was more than 5. 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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