So confused...

[Riccardo]

I am relatively new to Alpine snowboards.
I Am 53 years old, 174cm and 81kg. I ride in the North East USA, New York, narrow trails, not steep, often icy and crowded. Not often, 5-6 times a year so i improvements are slow to come....
Setup is Carvecompany bindings, Deeluxe 225 boots mondo 27 and ride - as my first  board - a old used Coiler AMT 172 (metal) 21.5cm wide x11m
I am ready to purchase something a bit more recent, but still looking for something forgiving, easy. 
Riding the Northeast USA, mainly New York ski resorts like Hunter, Windham, etc, my main difficulties are ice and narrow passages between trails that are often crowded and having to quickly avoid kids suddenly falling down in front of you. Furthermore some passages between trails are long and force me to ride one edge for extended amount of distances (it kills me olde knees...)
The Coiler is very good on ice but too fast for tight narrow crowded trails (for my alpine skills)
So i wouldn’t mind a snappy board quick to tight turns but also damp enough to be controllable on ice and runs that get messed up. Not sure if those two are in antithesis or not
I am in no position to be able to understand effects of different widths or profiles.

Coiler, Donek, Oes, Swoard.... too many models, not enough understanding to make it easier to chose.

Donek proposes a Voyager in 162, Oes a Kevlar 172-3 in M stiffness and Coiler, a new version 3 of the AM. I must say I am partial to Coiler, but open to suggestions. 

Thanks to all that can help clear some of the fog around my tiny brain...

Btw forgive my alpine-ignorant explanations.

Edited January 17, 2019 by Riccardo

[Neil Gendzwill]

I ride and recommend Coilers.  I suggest you look into the VSR AM in the 165 length.  Bruce built mine with the XT (extra-tight) sidecut, it might be what you are looking for.

[Lurch]

+1 on the Coiler Cadillac ride - the Gentlemans Express.

Might also be worth talking to the Thirst owners here - one comment I have heard more than once is that they ride like a plate board but without the plate - paging @bigwavedave or @Algunderfoot

[Kneel]

Honestly, you can't really go wrong with any of present carve-specific vendors. Thirst, Donek, Coiler, SG, Kessler, Jasey Jay, etc.  These guys have really upped the ante.  Every time I think I've found the last board I'll ever buy, another one comes along. But I do have to admit, Mark is onto something special at Thirst.  Once I got everything dialed in and learned to stay neutral on the 8RW...man-o-manaschewitz! I called and begged Mark to be back on the list for an XC and/or Superconductor. It also  seemed to fix a lot, certainly not all, of the flaws in my riding style where OTHER boards feel that much better. I was riding the SG Full Carve 170 earlier this week and was in awe of how good that board really is.  So, sorry!  I've got nothing but more confusion for you.  But if you look at them like potato chips knowing damn well you can't eat just one? Pick something that matches the conditions where you ride over anything else.  I can pretty much guarantee you'll be happy with whatever you decide on until you try the next one.  

[lowrider]

That Coiler you have isn't an ancient board. Many still ride full glass boards. Yours has metal so should be damp by comparison . My question to you is have you tuned it up lately .
As far as riding one edge on the trails you do ride are the runs well layed out on the hill ( resort ) ? Do they fallow the fall line or are they cut across the fall line ? Lots of runs at just about any resort can be rider unfriendly. I'd do some research on your stance,  width and angles as well as toe and heel lift.  If your knees are killing you something isn't right. If you just want a new board and looking for an excuse go for it. Smaller side cut will help make it turn shorter but might not answer all your issues. 

[billyt.]

First suggestion is to change your mountain.  I used to ski Hunter and it is great for steep, bumps and crowds.  Try another area with some mellow cruisers and see if that board works better there.  The board manufacturers will dial you in when you want to purchase a new ride.

[SunSurfer]

If your knees are in pain then binding setup, I.e. distance apart, angles +/- splay, cant & lift may all be part of the issue. Unless  you are riding with your  feet across the board, low angles between 0 and 30 degrees, you will certainly benefit from some  front foot toe lift and rear foot heel lift. Angles, distance, cant and lift, and your body size are all inter-related.

Edited January 17, 2019 by SunSurfer

[daveo]

That Coiler should be fine

Edited January 17, 2019 by daveo

[Señor Chuggs]

How might one get their hands on Carve Company bindings?  How might they compare with F2 bindings (toe lever kind)?

[lonbordin]

7 minutes ago, Señor Chuggs said:

How might one get their hands on Carve Company bindings?  How might they compare with F2 bindings (toe lever kind)?

http://carvecompany.com

Really different.. but we'd have to know which F2 model to properly compare.

PS- They are an old Burton race plates that became IBEX bindings now carve company.

[Beckmann AG]

From the available information,

1. Revisit your setup using one or all of the variants suggested on this forum, (ride characteristics/handling can change a lot depending on your relationship to the board).

2.  You have a Coiler, which means you have an established collection of data points and a builder who should be familiar with what they mean. Buying something else in hopes of fixing the problem is, therefore, a bit of a crapshoot. Keep the baby; toss the bathwater.

3. Got any  video of yourself? Might be operator error?

A.11m sidecut is a little large for narrow and ice. FWIW, 10 is about max for close quarters work at Sugarloaf, where the winds blow hard, some patrons are blowhards, and the snow is often indistinguishable from industrial ceramic.

B. Full camber on ice is better than not. More than 1cm of camber is preferable to less. Again, Coiler. (Last I asked, Bruce Almighty allowed that he could add more if required. Other builders not so much).

C. Softer longitudinal flex is better than stiff on ice. This should be proportional to body weight and intended rate of travel.

C2. Stiffer torsionally is better than soft on ice.

D. A metal board will rebound slower than a glass board on turn exit, all other things being equal, and assuming you can make use of this rebound. Metal, however, is nice on ice.

E. Proportionally longer effective edge will improve tracking, reduce the tendency to spin.

Edited January 18, 2019 by Beckmann AG
semi-colonic

[Jonny]

That board should still be working well if it's tuned up. If you like the way it rides on good, uncrowded terrain I wouldn't change it, but change my setup instead.

On crowded, narrow trails you don't want to be making a pure carve, no matter what the radius, because you're going to deflect across the hill much faster than people expect and you're just going to take damage from overtaking skiers and riders (especially at Hunter where they're a real L.I.E. mentality!). You need a setup which allows you too sketch, check, skid, wedel, sideslip, slarve, more or less in a straight line so that you are in rhythm with the rest of the crowd. This means that high angles are not your friend. With a 21.5 waist on MP27 you should be able to set your back foot at 47-50° with little or no overhang,and your front foot not much steeper. I you have a lot of ramp canted into your back binding take it out and get both feet as flat as reasonable. These tweaks will allow you to  check your speed much more easily in the crowds until the slopes open out.

That said, no power on earth would get me to take a carving board onto Hunter - just too many lunatics and the hill really isn't optimized for carving even with the crowds. I watched a skier get cut off and driven into a snow fence on one of those freakin' cat-tracks and he bled out in my arms with absolutely nothing to be done for him. Windham's a little better but I'd drive the extra to Plattekill for instance, or come east to Catamount, both GREAT carving layouts.

[daveo]

33 minutes ago, Señor Chuggs said:

How might one get their hands on Carve Company bindings?  How might they compare with F2 bindings (toe lever kind)?

One might get their hands on Carve Company bindings from visiting carversparadise

[Neil Gendzwill]

3 minutes ago, Jonny said:

On crowded, narrow trails you don't want to be making a pure carve, no matter what the radius, because you're going to deflect across the hill much faster than people expect and you're just going to take damage from overtaking skiers and riders (especially at Hunter where they're a real L.I.E. mentality!). You need a setup which allows you too sketch, check, skid, wedel, sideslip, slarve, more or less in a straight line so that you are in rhythm with the rest of the crowd. This means that high angles are not your friend. With a 21.5 waist on MP27 you should be able to set your back foot at 47-50° with little or no overhang,and your front foot not much steeper. I you have a lot of ramp canted into your back binding take it out and get both feet as flat as reasonable. These tweaks will allow you to  check your speed much more easily in the crowds until the slopes open out.

Pretty much my setup on my VSR AM 165, 50/55 angles on a 22 cm waist.  Bruce built it for me with 16 mm of taper so it's pretty easy to just slarve it if I need to, but it will hook up when I want as well.  It's a little squirrely at speed but that's what I have the NFC 180 for.

[icebiker]

While you mull your board options, definitely consider your locale options.  Hunter is a zoo and the trails are not my cup of carving tea.   If you can manage the distance, I highly recommend Pico in Vermont.  Never (ever) crowded, low key vibe, PLENTY of wide blues, and very reasonable cost compared to its big sister Killington.  Good luck! 

Edited January 18, 2019 by icebiker

[Kmf]

17 hours ago, Riccardo said:

Riding the Northeast USA, mainly New York ski resorts like Hunter, Windham, etc, 

Me too, my whole life. The most important lesson to learn is that you Can Not, Absolutely Can Not ski/ride Hunter or Windham weekends/holidays. I find it impossible to focus on my technique when I’m constantly thinking that some bonehead is going to come screaming down the mountain and hit me, it’s happened a few times. Weekdays are fine, however the moron factor is exponentially greater on weekends. Stay away.

I would follow others advice and see how much can be changed with my setup before I bought a new board. Also, change when and where you ride. Go to the smaller family mountains where the kids stay on the lower part, and the “cool kids” don’t like. There are several in the area.

[billyt.]

12 hours ago, Jonny said:

especially at Hunter where they're a real L.I.E. mentality!

Really?  And I'm sure they are all saints on the Mass pike!  

[Riccardo]

Wow, so many great pointers, thank you to all.

Based on them I think I am going to well, first of all keep my board for when at better resorts, but also get the shorter board  (what? you though I wouldn't  ?  ) 

I will talk to Bruce about having more camber, softer longitudinal flex and more torsional stiffness. 

While Bruce is doing his magic (March-April...) I'll work on my set up, at the moment I have no cant or lift, so I'll start experimenting with my stance and then working my angles. At the moment they are 55/50 and 19"

Lastly I will also see about changing resorts once in a while, although not always a possibility, going usually with a ski club since I chaperone a bunch of kids .

Thanks again guys! This means a lot to me

 

Ciao

 

Riccardo

[barryj]

Your Coiler can do the job....but getting it Pro tuned can make Huge riding difference.  The stock edge and base from Bruce  rides just fine....just might need  sharpening and to get rid of burs/dents/dings will make it handle much better in tight conditions.

Yes add lift/cants   Don't know Carvecompany bindings...but if it was a Bomber TD binding it would be as simple as adding a 3 degree cant disk to lift the toe of your front ft  and a 6 degree disk to raise the heel of your rear foot..........or could try it a 3/3 for starters                That would make your ride much more responsive and enjoyable...

Shorter board/smaller SCR is always  a Great Fun Option to add to the quiver.....especially at crowded resorts!!

If you really want to Carve, Change Your Mtn.!  Hunter is crazy crowded/dangerous from my experience to be hard charging carving!                                                                                            A ditto for making the drive to VT!!  It's a whole different world 

Lastly and possibly the hardest.... is to find and ride with other carvers.  Riding problems are much more easily addressed when you got another set of experienced eyes observing what's working or not.

Keep at it......... and enjoy the ride!

  

[daveo]

18 hours ago, Kneel said:

I was riding the SG Full Carve 170 earlier this week and was in awe of how good that board really is.

Nice! How do you find it compared to the K168? 

[pow4ever]

Just in case:
http://alpinesnowboarder.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/How-to-Buy-an-Alpine-Snowboard.pdf

Great advices all around.  If you are in NY/LI area.  I do have a Coiler Angrry you can try/test. 

Just a note:  I am hard on my equipments.  It's not tune recently, not waxed, edge is dull + full or burs, base is full of dent and scratches.
So it does not represent a proper Coiler product lol... 

Demo as many board before you buy.  I also found that building up the core skill have much higher ROI then buying a new board.
 

[Kneel]

44 minutes ago, daveo said:

Nice! How do you find it compared to the K168? 

 

Lets just say I'm over the K168.   But I also have an 8RW so I'm also kinda sorta over the FC170, but have been riding it more than I expected with the funky winter we've been having and haven't had the luxury of ideal trail conditions to really ride the 8RW as I want.  That's all been changing though here in the NE as winter finally returned.

But, the differences are tough to describe. The ways they are similar is how smooth, precise and predictable they both are.  Point your head in a direction and the response is immediate, just the arc getting there is different.  The main difference being that everything about the numbers on the K168 just make sense. Long soulful carves in The Norm to turns where you have to pick your head up off the stomp pad. It's a sexy bitch.  The FC170 has the curves of a 2x4 and manages to accomplish the same.  It has me rethinking the way I ride, or more likely I've STOPPED overthinking about how I ride.  The 8RW plays a huge roll in that too as it's a completely different beast altogether.  Bottom line is I know nothing about board geometry and I'm a mediocre rider at best, but I do pay attention to my gut.  The K168 is awesome.  No doubt.  But the FC170 just feels so damn good...

[jburk]

On 1/18/2019 at 10:00 AM, Kneel said:

But I also have an 8RW so I'm also kinda sorta over the FC170, but have been riding it more than I expected with the funky winter we've been having and haven't had the luxury of ideal trail conditions to really ride the 8RW as I want.

Let me get this straight: are you saying that the FC170 is your rock board?

[barryj]

On 1/18/2019 at 1:00 PM, Kneel said:

Lets just say I'm over the K168. 

What!   Sacrilege!   Say it ain't so.......... 

[Kneel]

7 hours ago, jburk said:

Let me get this straight: are you saying that the FC170 is your rock board?

Oh no. I have a Flux with a base that looks like cats used it as a scratching post. I’m in the northeast. It was a warm wet December.  I just picked up the FC170 this fall and have maybe 50 runs on it. It’s awesome. Better than I had imagined But all I think about is the 8RW...