Felony charges for former Bomber owners

[big mario]

Are we done dog piling yet?

Sure is fun to kick people when they are down isn't it?

since every one has an opinion on how absolutely evil Jim and Angie are, I will offer an opinion on the  biggest mistake the Callens made was they paid too much for a business that was already circling the drain,  and put too much of themselves into it trying to grow it. Anyone remember Fin's announcement at the end of the '15 session that there wouldn't be a 16 session, there might be one in 17? The time line of the embezzlement sure meshes nicely with the purchase of bomber, could it be that the projected sales (pitch) did not match  the reality of the market?

In any situation there are always 3 sides to an argument:

Yours

Theirs

The Truth

so far we have only heard one

Please lock this thread, enough is enough

mario

[HillB]

There's so much that's not out in the open along with a lot of denial.

[Jack M]

Cleaned up some some unnecessary conjecture about personal matters.

3 hours ago, big mario said:

could it be that the projected sales (pitch) did not match  the reality of the market? 

I saw the sales pitch, as I wanted to see if I could buy it.  It was merely a statement of facts.  It would seem the Callens didn't understand the difference between gross and net, or were too excited by the gross revenue number, which was an exciting number.  Net profit was not.  Fin lived in an apartment above his factory for a reason.  He was not paying $4000/month in rent.

[Jack M]

On 9/8/2018 at 1:17 AM, theboarderdude said:

I don't even think it was an issue of timing. I raced USASA on TD3 sidewinders for 4 seasons, and have raced on F2s the past 2 seasons. When it comes to suspension and flexibility, they aren't even close. The sidewinders provide some flexibility along a single axis, but F2s will flex in whatever way you apply pressure. Ther

I love the TD3 sidewinders and still have the pair I used, but they just aren't what works for racers. Fin wanted to make an indestructible product and was phenomenal at doing that but had to sacrifice flexibility to do so.

TD3 with yellow (soft) e-rings will flex in any direction, fairly generously, IMO.  Omnidirectional flex is the raison d'etre of the TD3.  The Sidewinder just adds even more lateral/medial flex.  I've tried F2 bindings and when I size them the way I feel bindings should be sized, they seem similarly stiff as TD3s.  If one sizes bindings such that one can open and close them with just two fingers, maybe it's different.

[Carvin' Marvin]

15 hours ago, daveo said:

Right. So if he isn't an engineer, how was he going to develop the next generation of Bomber products and keep the business going? Does anyone know what the plan was? I'm just curious...

I heard them throwing around some ideas at a demo one time but it didn't sound like anything was ever going to come of them. Without the engineering prowess the outsourcing and R+D would have been costly and lengthy.  

[SnowNBeachAddict]

Mario,

With all due respect to your most recent comment and others on this board that may be upset such as yourself.  You are correct in that it is not fun to kick someone when they are down.  This story has 3 sides, Fin's, Angie's and Jim's.  The three of them are truly the only people that know all of the facts of which some appear to be in dispute never to be resolved.

I think many of us come to this forum (thanks Jack) to discuss what went on and many of us have a lot of questions and opinions (as the saying goes opinions are like a$$holes---everyone's got one).  For the most part I haven't read anything highly offensive on this board, just opinions, though some highly charged at times. I am guilty of that I will confess so if I have said anything that offended anyone I do apologize. Keep in mind a great business and tightly bonded community and customers within that community were impacted, some losing good amounts of monies.

As soon as we arrived at Jim & Angie's first ATC (2016) and observed how the event was being run, the new expensive van and other things some of us had a hunch things might not end well.  I say this as there were numerous people making similar comments about their observations as well (new van with wrap, huge house that was seemingly excessive, etc.). 

Before getting into my thoughts, a little about my background.  Years ago I did several years doing analyst work for the SBA (Small Business Administration) going out into the community to help failing business's that had SBA loans nearing default.  My job was to analyze the business, recommend solutions in order to save the loan and to prevent the company from having to file BK. I did this while in college and during this same time I also helped my parents run a mid size construction firm they owned during summer breaks.  Owning a business is tough and risky.  Usually there isn't much time for fun! I subsequently spent 15+ years as an Advisory Consultant/Director/Sr. PM in a tech firm managing projects of $500 million+ or more.  So I have some decent business background in addition to about 29 years of snowboarding and some of that spent working and helping a couple of the business's in various capacities.  As such I am a little familiar with the industry and our hb niche as well. 

When they filed BK for Bomber I took a look at the detailed data in the BK filing documents as I wanted to understand what went down a little better (and I like to work on facts as much as possible).   As you are aware Fin bought out his partners in around 1993. He successfully ran the business for about 22+ years until he decided it was time to sell and move on to something new.   The business provided him with a rather solid income (I am sure lean in some years since the business is somewhat dependent on snow) and it also provided employment to 1 to 2 other individuals.

After reviewing the detailed financial information from the BK filing and later down the road taking a look at a detailed business prospectus that Fin put together (and it was VERY detailed) I spent some time  running basic numbers because I wanted a better picture of things just for my own personal knowledge/understanding.    Without getting into the "nitty gritty" here are some key facts/observations/opinions/questions:

1.  The sale of Bomber according to records was in May of 2015  in the amount of $210,672.  Agreement terms are unknown.  As others have said on this thread the sale did not include the machinery (I think that went to a different company) and if my memory is correct Fin kept the bail bender (though I may be wrong).

2.  Fin's prospectus was very what we call "T&L" tight and lean and also paying himself a respectable and reasonable salary.  We had the opportunity to spend time in Fin's factory some years ago and I can personally say he ran a tight ship (he knew the inventory down to the screws).

3.  Right out of the gate what is the biggest difference between Fin running the business and Jim & Angie?  Besides Jim and Angie not having the equipment in house?  A big difference that would have to be taken into consideration by any buyers is the fact that Fin produced a chunk of the goods in house on premises.  Jim and Angie did not have that luxury and that is a big cost savings to Fin (live where you work).

4.  Did Jim & Angie perform due diligence before buying the business?  Did they have a firm look at the contract taking into consideration what their costs would be?  Did they have a lawyer review the contract?  Did they ask for copies of the past 3 years of tax returns? Did they do a projected cash flow? Did they audit receipts? I don't know the answer to this, but surely if that had been done some costs and overhead expenses (fixed and variable) would have been taken into consideration.  Did they have a written business plan? Seems if they had truly done proper due diligence they would have  gone into this with eyes wide open and known the relevant facts.

5.  Did Jim or Angie have prior experience running a small business?  Did they have intimate knowledge of the snowboarding industry? market?  demographics? 

6.  Jim & Angie obtained a loan from Alpine Bank in the amount of $90K in May of 2015 (terms unknown)  in addition to obtaining a loan through a private individual in the amount of $50K (terms unknown).  I am not sure if they took other loans or had liquid assets available at the time of purchase.  What we do know is that based on these 2 facts they had approximately $140K in operating cash to start with (and that operating cash was also debt).   There are 2 pretty hard and fast rules about small business.  1) Likely failure is within the first 24 to 30 months and 2) Owner should have 18 months of operating cash on hand and access to an additional 6 months for a total of 24 months operating cash on hand/readily accessible.

7.  They moved from their rental house to a larger house assuming a new liability of $4K per month in rent living in a much larger space, but not manufacturing from the space.  The business did not warrant a retail showroom especially given the location and little to no foot traffic nor retail storefront visibility.  At $4K per month that is $48K PER YEAR in rental expenses!

8.  They purchased a 2015 Ford Transit 350T for a purchase price of 49,650.20 amounting to monthly payments of $819.17 over 60 months.  They wrapped the van for an unknown cost (best guesstimate is 4-5K).  They could have purchased a used van for a reasonable price and kept the graphics to a minimum.

9.  Their payment to Alpine Bank on a loan of $90K was estimated at about $1,800 per month.

9. Their monthly payment to Fin was an estimated amount of $3,500 (assumes $210K paid over 60 months).

10.  Their monthly payment of a personal $50K loan is unknown, so an estimated monthly payment of say $500 over 60 months.

11.  At the time they purchased the business Angie was making a salary of $61K (though collecting $71,500).  Jim's salary is unknown, but per BK filing not substantial.  For ease of calculation let's assume after taxes she brought home $4,200 per month (no dependents).

12.  Monthly expenses that we know from the above (does not include other expenses which we do not have facts for) = $10,619.17 and this is a low number, excluding other personal and business expenses for which I don't have detailed information.  My best guess is total monthly was running around 14-17K taking product and other expenses into account.

13.  We know they had approximately $140K cash (also debt) on hand when they started the business plus access to Angie's monthly salary of an estimated say $4,200 net per month.  This right here is a red flag.  The bare bones minimum of expenses (which is well under actual) is 10-11K per month.  Keep in mind this amount excludes production and acquisition of products. 

14.  Did hardgood vendors (boots and boards) provide a line of credit to Jim and Angie or were the account(s) on COD?  This too impacts cash flow.

15.  Did Jim and/or Angie have the skills to tweak existing products?  Develop new products?  Did they have access to more capital to do R&D?

16.  Numerous people have stated they had a poor customer service experience during Jim and Angie's tenure.

17.  Assuming the cost burdens of putting on ATC in the winter of 2016.  Perhaps this should have been a off year while they got the business up and running and on solid footing.

18.  They had to rely on others to manufacture the goods (excludes boots and boards).  This is a weak spot and does not appear to have been taken into consideration during the due diligence process (or lack thereof).

19. While I don't have access to review the buyer/seller agreement I did look at the detailed data in the prospectus Fin sent and the numbers work (though tight).  I trust Fin and don't believe he was dishonest. At all. Period.

20.  Owning a business requires blood, sweat, tears and shrewd finances.

21.  Assuming $15K (see #12, $10,619 + say $4K) per month in expenses (very very rough estimate based on above plus padding for product, materials etc) in my humble opinion they would have needed to have access to $360K in funds to safely sustain them over a 24 month period.  In my humble opinion the business didn't have a chance from the start because they took on unnecessary/high expenses combined with irresponsible personal spending (at least according to the news reports). At the $15K per month estimate they would have blown through their cash from the loans within about 9 months.  They started the company on about day 1 with approximately a total debt of $400,322.20 ($210,672+$90,000+$50,000.00+$49,650.20).  According to the paper and warrant the theft started 11/2015 which is about 6 months from the time they purchased the company.  It is also worth noting they really didnt have any personal skin in the game as it appears the did this using loans (other people's money).  This isn't the most optimal way to start a small business or any business for that matter.  High debt, low cash and high expenses:(

The above is just some basic information.  Sit back and take a closer look.  They took on large and unnecessary expenses, combined with $400K in debt out of the gate and only $140K in cash on hand.  It appears they failed to do proper due diligence to make sure the deal would work for their financial situation (which was much different than Fin's) and lack of sufficient operating capital needed to sustain the business and get it on a solid footing within the first 24 months from date of purchase.

I am truly sad for Fin, for all those that have experienced less than than professional customer service and those that paid for goods that were never received. The alarming part in all of this is that the website was up and running and still taking orders when they knew that they could not fulfill the orders and were preparing to file BK.  

While bad things happen to good people this whole sad thing that has happened could have easily been avoided.  It is going to be a tough road for Angie and Jim (especially Angie).  The  consequences of her actions will impact her life for years to come.  At least she admitted to what she did when she was caught (though would she have admitted to it if she wasn't caught?) If the court/jury finds her guilty or Angie gets a plea deal and she accepts/completes her punishment she will have paid her debt to society and we hope that she will somehow land on her feet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2018 by SnowNBeachAddict

[slopestar]

Well said. Only the facts. 

[west carven]

howdy

so moving forward... does the new kid Walker aka forrest have a handle on things?

haven't heard much from him... is bomber products just a memory?

[Shred Gruumer]

So I don't think i heard why selling to the Callens was more attractive than the couple of others here?  What was the buying pitch, I knew "Crash" before they moved out west..  I'd be scared to sell him ratchet..or socket set.  just sayin..

[daveo]

1 hour ago, Shred Gruumer said:

So I don't think i heard why selling to the Callens was more attractive than the couple of others here?

Weren't they the only ones willing to pay the asking price?

[RobertAlexander]

I did plenty of research on the manufacturing side, VCM , sourcing stock materials, shop set up, plans to do the move.  Made lots of progress and learned a bunch. The biggest set back for me was I could not find  a second person to do the sales 1/2 of the biz. And to try to do only the manufacturing creates a whole new set of variables of uncertainty, approx. 1/2 the profits on what was already a question.  I still am open for any and all opportunities, there are other alternatives for small shop fab of alpineboard bindings.  Ex: you do not need to have a CNC wire bender, a manual bender can be fabbed, Have tube bending experience, Used to bend the tubes for the RL10 rocket eng .    As stated earlier,  there are many ways of getting something done. Time=$$

My brief conversation with both Jim and Angie, asked a few gentle questions, got some vague answers.  Left me thinking , ok , No manufacturing experience what so ever.  Total reality was, you do not know how to swim and you are diving into the deep end of the pool.

Edited September 11, 2018 by RobertAlexander

[daveo]

2 hours ago, RobertAlexander said:

My brief conversation with both Jim and Angie, asked a few gentle questions, got some vague answers.  Left me thinking , ok , No manufacturing experience what so ever.  Total reality was, you do not know how to swim and you are diving into the deep end of the pool.

Seems that way, pity Fin had 200k bet on this not being the case.

[michael.a]

On 9/11/2018 at 1:31 PM, RobertAlexander said:

 

My brief conversation with both Jim and Angie, asked a few gentle questions, got some vague answers.  Left me thinking , ok , No manufacturing experience what so ever.  Total reality was, you do not know how to swim and you are diving into the deep end of the pool.

 

I have manufacturing experience and honestly besides future R&D I can't really see the problem if all of you have are legacy products with an almost turn-key operation that's seasonal and contracts out the machining. Just basic quality control with a caliper and ruler IMHO and the rest is just running a small business.

I think the Callens were heading in the right direction by turning Bomber from a manufacturer into a true outfitter with marketing taking the lead as a way to grow the market but it sounds like they did it by totally sacrificing the operations side for promotion and lifestyle and just overspent on the wrong things (the showroom and new van had me scratching my head from day one). Let alone the needed operating capital as SnowNbeach expertly summed up.

[Jack M]

https://www.aspendailynews.com/news/former-red-brick-director-pleads-guilty-to-felony-theft/article_6761d098-7045-11e9-bfe0-6fbf2bb01005.html

https://www.aspentimes.com/news/former-red-brick-director-admits-theft-pays-50k/

[daveo]

I still remember being the first to call them out for being nonresponsive to communication and was greeted on the forum with a lynching.

If it walks like a duck.......

[Jack M]

1 hour ago, daveo said:

I still remember being the first to call them out for being nonresponsive to communication and was greeted on the forum with a lynching.

If it walks like a duck.......

Well, at that time we didn't know how deep the rabbit hole went, so it looked more like you were biting the hand that fed us.  What can we say, you were right!

[daveo]

1 hour ago, Jack M said:

Well, at that time we didn't know how deep the rabbit hole went, so it looked more like you were biting the hand that fed us.  What can we say, you were right!

People can be a bit touchy on the internet I've found...

[Erik J]

Well that sucks. What a crappy situation this whole thing turned into. 

What the hell is going on in Aspen? https://www.aspentimes.com/news/cops-former-city-councilman-stole-2-4-million-from-aspen-skiing-co/

 

[davekempmeister]

1 hour ago, Erik J said:

 

What the hell is going on in Aspen? https://www.aspentimes.com/news/cops-former-city-councilman-stole-2-4-million-from-aspen-skiing-co/

 

the same stuff that goes on here (i live near baltimore/d.c.) and most everywhere else.

[slapos]

thats like lot of skis.

really f.... lot.

damn

[daveo]

8 hours ago, slapos said:

thats like lot of skis.

really f.... lot.

damn

They sure are a fun lot in Aspen. 

[st_lupo]

14 hours ago, daveo said:

People can be a bit touchy on the internet I've found...

#!%@#¤%!!!!! THAT is NOT a SPADE you IDIOT!!!! That is a SQUARE POINT SHOVEL!!!! THIS IS A @¤(/&!"#&!ING SPADE!!!

[st_lupo]

11 hours ago, slapos said:

thats like lot of skis.

really f.... lot.

damn

And how do they still wind up so far in debt?!  I mean, when I steal fruit from the fruit baskets of the other departments at my job, I save it in a special fruit drawer in my desk.  So that I always have fruit available.  Just in case.  

[daveo]

16 hours ago, daveo said:

People can be a bit touchy on the internet I've found...

Not to derail (actually, to derail), I will consider giving my UPZ RC10 to anyone who correctly guesses that font.

[SunSurfer]

Helvetica Now?

Since there are different ideas about what a spade is, if you really want to derail this thread show them the difference between Aussie and Brazilian thongs!

Edited May 8, 2019 by SunSurfer