2017-2018 season prep thread.

[Technick]

I just started the Stronglifts 5x5 program, seems really good! Simple and quick, easy progress tracking with the free app!

[Corey]

4 hours ago, Technick said:

I just started the Stronglifts 5x5 program, seems really good! Simple and quick, easy progress tracking with the free app!

Awesome!  Best of luck!  

Be super picky about your form.  Assuming you don't have a personal coach; video yourself and compare it to 'good' videos/pictures.  I didn't until I hurt myself a bit, then started over again at a lower weight.  

[Technick]

I've trained a couple of time in my life, I was squating around 220lbs a couple years ago but was less into it lately. Did all sorts of programs, the one that got me to 220lbs was Legs once per week with this partern: 2 warm up sets (bar only) then sets of 8, 6, 4 and 2 reps increasing weights each time, then right after the  2 reps set, dropped the weight to first set weight and go to max reps, superset with leg raise machine. I had to increase weight each week. I like to change things up, the Stronglifts 5x5 program is very different from what I did in the past so it's a good way to keep things interesting and new. And yes, form is super important, I watched a couple "how to squat" videos to get a refresh of the "do's and don'ts". Il be watching my form closely and will be starting low and slow.

 

[Technick]

I like this one too, very good tips...!

 

[breeseomatic]

7 hours ago, Technick said:

I just started the Stronglifts 5x5 program, seems really good! Simple and quick, easy progress tracking with the free app!

If anyone cares to follow along and read what I have to say about StrongLifts 5x5.

[davekempmeister]

On 8/15/2017 at 5:04 PM, Neil Gendzwill said:

Judging by the number of carvers that stop to rest every few turns, I'd say cardio is not over rated.

Without suggesting that anyone else is incorrect, I would have to completely agree with Neil and Sunsurfer about the importance of cardio.   Which muscle in the body is more important than the ❤️?   When one takes in 30 - 40 % less oxygen than they are accustomed to,   the  need for optimally performing lungs (and heart)  can't be overstated, right?   Hemoglobin, the whole bit.  All in concert but with special emphasis on where oxygenization begins and the vehicle that gets it where it's going.  Fundamentals.

Flexibility seems worth a mention.   When a run does not go "as planned", flexibility can be the difference between calling it a day (or season) and trying again.

[Corey]

18 hours ago, davekempmeister said:

Without suggesting that anyone else is incorrect, I would have to completely agree with Neil and Sunsurfer about the importance of cardio.   Which muscle in the body is more important than the ❤️?   When one takes in 30 - 40 % less oxygen than they are accustomed to,   the  need for optimally performing lungs (and heart)  can't be overstated, right?   Hemoglobin, the whole bit.  All in concert but with special emphasis on where oxygenization begins and the vehicle that gets it where it's going.  Fundamentals.

Flexibility seems worth a mention.   When a run does not go "as planned", flexibility can be the difference between calling it a day (or season) and trying again.

As a newcomer to the whole fitness industry, I'm surprised how entrenched most people are with their 'camp'.  Weightlifters lift weights, runners run, etc.  Crossfit is a mix of all.  But most people that write about it spend a fair amount of time saying how other methods suck and their chosen way is the one true path.  If you only read one, you'd think the other people are completely missing out.  :shrug: 

As a mild counterpoint; you DEFINITELY work your lungs and heart in any multi-set lifting workout!  Just a couple of days ago I was panting so hard that it was hard to brace for the next squat.  And my muscles get sore after a run.  

I don't enjoy running, so I don't do it much unless I'm late for something.  ;)  But I do stretch/foam roll 3 days/week.  Some things loosened up surprisingly quickly (hip flexors), but my hamstrings are being quite stubborn.  They just like being short and tight.  I've gone from not being able to touch my toes to just barely touching in 1.5 years.  That's frustrating.  

[JRAZZ]

If cycling has taught me anything it's the importance of fueling correctly.  It's not just cardio (well, if you stop 4 times in a run maybe it is).

Eating correctly before and adding small bits as the day progresses makes an amazing difference in my stamina. 

[big mario]

https://blackironbeast.com/5/3/1/calculator

Hey Corey, lots of variations and guidance in here, need more volume, add joker sets, more reps, go to  kazmarcskis 8/6/3.  At minimum, take a quick look

Mario

ps, when building a program,  you can skip the part about what weights you possess

[teach]

I've found the exrx.net site to be a good reference . It skips a lot of the dogma.

There are lots of articles on the site, but the best part is the exercise and muscle directory, I think.

The Stronglifts 5 x 5 seems pretty high volume for a beginner routine. I did pretty well in a year or so with much lower volume, like one warm-up set and one heavy set of 5-8 or two really heavy sets of 3-4. My "gainz" over a year or so are probably comparable to Corey's from the 5x5. There are a lot of ways to do it. But I hear that changes as you get experience and accomodate.

A carving run seems to be to be fairly close to a moderately high rep, low weight squat set (a hard carve is how many gs?). Not exactly "cardio" as in aerobic, but it does get your blood pumping.

I've done a lot less cycling this year than last, but a lot more weight training. Hiking at elevation was much harder this year. (Unintentional experiment)

[Corey]

I dropped the volume in my 531 accessories for a few months as I kept getting sick in the 4th week (deload).  I'm into my 8th week after bringing some volume back in... and... I'm sick again.  Nothing major, just a low-level cold that slows me down and keeps me from finishing a workout.  

Darn it!  I'm reading that you need decent volume to build muscle in a timely fashion, but my body is clearly telling me that I need to back down.  Sigh.  Maybe I need to eat more?  I'm trying to get rid of belly fat; not add to it!  

[breeseomatic]

At some level, one can either bulk or cut, not both.  In the beginning stages a novice can achieve both, but beginners also get PR's every week and double their lifts in 6 months.

If you wanted hypertrophy, a rule I've used in the past is take 50-60% of your 1RM and complete a 5x10 or 4x15.  Basically any set/rep range that gets that pump on and you look swole immediately afterwards.  That should stimulate muscle bulk and you should try to do it without Wendler 5-3-1.  T-nation and bodybuilding web sites should have some info on training for hypertrophy.

If you're getting sick with colds, I would look into your recover between sets and workout days, meal plan or lack thereof, sleep patterns, and if you have kid(s), start licking their hands, pencils, books, etc. to build up your immune system.  It's going to suck at first, but by this time next year, you'll have an immune system to be proud of.  For a meal plan, you can check out avatarnutrition.com and fill out a basic profile.  They will suggest some macro targets for you to achieve the desired goal selected in the profile setup.  You can use this as a baseline and don't need to join the program.

[SunSurfer]

On 31/08/2017 at 2:27 AM, corey_dyck said:

As a newcomer to the whole fitness industry, I'm surprised how entrenched most people are with their 'camp'.  Weightlifters lift weights, runners run, etc.  Crossfit is a mix of all.  But most people that write about it spend a fair amount of time saying how other methods suck and their chosen way is the one true path.  If you only read one, you'd think the other people are completely missing out.  :shrug: 

As a mild counterpoint; you DEFINITELY work your lungs and heart in any multi-set lifting workout!  Just a couple of days ago I was panting so hard that it was hard to brace for the next squat.  And my muscles get sore after a run.  

I don't enjoy running, so I don't do it much unless I'm late for something.  ;)  But I do stretch/foam roll 3 days/week.  Some things loosened up surprisingly quickly (hip flexors), but my hamstrings are being quite stubborn.  They just like being short and tight.  I've gone from not being able to touch my toes to just barely touching in 1.5 years.  That's frustrating.  

Hamstring tightness, by tethering my pelvis and placing more strain on my lower back muscles, has just prevented me from going on my planned week long snowboard trip this winter. Severe lower back muscle spasm was the result. 

I have known of a very powerful hamstring stretch for years, but not used it with anything like the regularity I should. After this event that has now changed.

To do the stretch lie on your back on the floor just before a doorway. Place one foot as high as you can up the door frame. Keep the other leg straight, through the doorway, on the floor. This keeps your pelvis flat and isolates the stretch to the hamstring. Importantly it also prevents strain on my lower back. As your flexibility improves gradually move your butt closer to the door frame. When I began my raised leg would be at about 45 degrees to my body, now I'm closer to 70. My aim is 90 consistently. As I get older I need to work harder to maintain the range of movement needed for snowboarding.

Edited August 31, 2017 by SunSurfer
Clarity

[SunSurfer]

8 hours ago, teach said:

A carving run seems to be to be fairly close to a moderately high rep, low weight squat set (a hard carve is how many gs?). Not exactly "cardio" as in aerobic, but it does get your blood pumping.

I've done a lot less cycling this year than last, but a lot more weight training. Hiking at elevation was much harder this year. (Unintentional experiment)

I'm going to appeal to reason here rather than make a vehemence based argument. So I won't be SHOUTING! But I am listening to and considering what others say.

Corey noted above that lifting weights makes him puffed. (So does Usain Bolt at the end of a 200m sprint, which takes him just a tad under 20 seconds).
Corey has posted a video in the past of him riding a Donek Rev 163? at his closest hill, a low altitude slope that takes between 20-40 seconds to run.

teach likens a carving run to a series of repeat lowish weight squats. That strikes me as a reasonable parallel. he doesn't say how long those repeats go on for.
teach also notes above that after more weights and less cardio that hiking (sustained exercise) at elevation was much harder this year. We'll assume that not just 'cause he's got older and decrepit.
---------------------

To an illustration of the different requirements for strength and endurance lets look at another area of predominantly lower body exercise of various durations, running track. The distances vary between 100 and 10,000 metres. The durations of the exercise vary from less than 10 seconds to just over 26 minutes. 
The sprinters, doing the 100 & 200m, do a lot of weight training, looking for explosive acceleration. Endurance is not an absolute necessity for them.
800 metres and above are absolutely endurance races, with muscle strength needed, but the duration of the event requires substantial cardiovascular stamina for success. The current record for 800m is around 1 minute 40+ seconds.  For these duration events and longer, endurance training is a key part of preparation.

The transition, speaking as someone who raced track as a teenager, is the 400m. The first 200m sprint is easy, the next 50m is tough, and then after that it's full blown lactic acidosis agony (aerobic supply capacity exceeded, anaerobic lactic acid production) to the finish before you feel like vomiting on the grass beside the track. 

Human bodies can only sustain peak exertion for very short periods of time, due to the energy sources used. For sustained exertion aerobic capacity (the ability to transport oxygen to your muscle mitochondria, the cell's power station) is the key to sustained high performance. 

So if Corey rides only his little hill, he'll be fine with just his weights. He will develop some cardiovascular fitness, but more importantly he'll have some really strong muscles to pull some really deep carves, and make his short duration ride hill as much fun as it possibly can be.
But when February rolls around and he makes a carver's pilgrimage to Aspen's long runs, he'll be puffed, and sitting in the snow catching his breath because he doesn't have the endurance for a run that takes several minutes of sustained carving.

Both strength and aerobic capacity are needed by track athletes. The proportions of weights and cardio, and the ideal body type and muscle development vary with the duration of the event. 

It's not one or the other. It's finding the right balance of both.

Maybe we should follow teach's illustration, and off season train with lowish weight squat repetitions every 3-5 seconds for up to 5-8 minutes at a time.

[Corey]

17 hours ago, breeseomatic said:

If you're getting sick with colds, I would look into your recover between sets and workout days, meal plan or lack thereof, sleep patterns, and if you have kid(s), start licking their hands, pencils, books, etc. to build up your immune system.  It's going to suck at first, but by this time next year, you'll have an immune system to be proud of.

I'm going to go to the advanced class and just lick the escalator hand rail at the nearest mall.  That should do.  Seriously though; your thought is to get every cold bug out there?  Aren't they constantly evolving?  

Alan, I don't just lift weights!  But it is the primary focus for me.  I was pretty impressed with how long I could ride after starting a lifting program.  Top to bottoms at Aspen were a distant dream a few years ago, now I might be able to keep up with the Montuckians for a morning or afternoon.  In the pow day after ATC last year, I was genuinely surprised when the liftie said 'last run.'  My prime motivator for my recent fitness journey is general health, not sport specific.  But I did add the barbell twist to work muscles that only hurt after snowboarding.  

Interesting discussion, as always!  

[breeseomatic]

Partially tongue in cheek, partial serious.  I know a few people that use hand sanitizer and anti-bacterial soaps and wipes all the time.  They appear to get long lasting colds more often than I do and I think I get more bouts of slight colds that last a day or two.  It's anecdotal at best, I feel that there is something to it.  So please don't lick the escalator handrail, that's just gross.  Lick your palm after touching the handrail.

Regarding cardio vs strength, we need both.  We are able to bias some strenuous activities to suit our strengths but that slider can't go to the other end of the spectrum 100%.  Being in tune with your body and activities should tell you exactly which training you should do: if you are a masher/power lifter, get some cardio, if you an endurance athlete, lift weights.

 

 

[Neil Gendzwill]

For snowboarding, you need the trifecta of strength, muscular endurance and cardio. You don't need marathon cardio but you need some. For muscular endurance, try adding hindu squats and wall sits to your routine. Hindu squats are body-weight squats with the heels up and an arm swing. You do them fairly quickly, like one per second. Grapplers do them by the hundreds. When I was in better shape I did them in sets of 30 combined with hindu aka dive-bomber pushups and neck bridges: this is called the "royal court". For snowboarding the squats are enough. 

Wall sits are what they sound like, back against the wall, thighs horizontal and shins vertical like you are in an invisible chair. Your average joe can do maybe 30 sec, I used to be good for 3 1/2 minutes. World-class downhill skiers can do 20 minutes. It's the best emulation of continuous hard carving I know. 

[Beckmann AG]

On August 15, 2017 at 5:16 PM, breeseomatic said:

I believe it's weakness in the legs, not the lungs that makes hard carvers stop.  Carvers sitting on the sideline need to squat more, and do more plyometric/isometric exercises.  In fact everyone needs to squat more.  

Carvers sit on the sidelines on account of pursuing an endurance event at a sprint pace. Squatting more in training simply encourages more squatting while riding, and that’s hardly a solution to the fatigue issue.

Lift if it makes you happy, but realize that as you gain density, you’re increasing the load of each turn on your body, and the stress on the cardiovascular system.

Bigger engines produce more power, but they also demand more fuel for that output. So, you can get stronger as a means of coping with sub-optimal technique for the short term, but it’s a losing game over the long haul.

If you want to engage the mountain in combat every time you ride, find some gamma rays and get angry.  And buy a few pair of purple pants.

On August 30, 2017 at 10:27 AM, corey_dyck said:

And my muscles get sore after a run.  

I don't enjoy running, so I don't do it much unless I'm late for something.  ;)  But I do stretch/foam roll 3 days/week.  Some things loosened up surprisingly quickly (hip flexors), but my hamstrings are being quite stubborn.  They just like being short and tight.  I've gone from not being able to touch my toes to just barely touching in 1.5 years.  That's frustrating.

I ran about 50 metres a few weeks back carrying a section of tow chain. Was sore in the legs for a few days, mostly because I never run, and I was wearing hiking boots at the time. It's fair to assume that your legs will be sore from running unless you run on a regular basis, regardless of leg strength.

In an otherwise healthy subject, persistent ‘tightness’ in a muscle group is generally caused by that group being held in tension for an excessive period of time. 

In many situations, tight hamstrings and carryover into the lower back are related to: 

1. Wearing shoes without enough heel height for the specific bone structure,

2. Engaging in long-duration standing tasks where the shoulders are cantilevered ahead of the hips, again without properly addressing heel height. (E.g., hand washing dishes in bare feet, practicing lasso tricks while wearing Earth Shoes, bagging groceries wearing flip flops, etc.)

3. A hind foot deformity.

And a few other things beyond the scope.

Assuming you’ve not already done so, the easiest thing to do is elevate your heels slightly in each pair of regular use shoes for a while, and see if that loosens things up.

 

On August 31, 2017 at 5:52 PM, corey_dyck said:

I dropped the volume... as I kept getting sick in the 4th week .  I'm into my 8th week ... and... I'm sick again.  Nothing major, just a low-level cold that slows me down and keeps me from finishing a workout.  

Darn it!  I'm reading that you need decent volume to build muscle in a timely fashion, but my body is clearly telling me that I need to back down.  Sigh.  Maybe I need to eat more?  I'm trying to get rid of belly fat; not add to it!

You do realize that your training regimen is screwing your general health?  

Despite the gains you’ve made over the last year, it might be time to toss the baby and keep the bathwater.

Maybe shift to aerobic maintenance until you can get back on snow, then log a few days on your favorite terrain with a heart rate monitor. That should provide some insight into what fuels you’re burning, and what kind of effort is required to ride the way you want to ride, and how you might better target your workouts. 

If you want to lose fat, it really helps to exercise at a heart rate that burns fat, and that number will vary from person to person.

14 hours ago, Neil Gendzwill said:

Wall sits are what they sound like, back against the wall, thighs horizontal and shins vertical like you are in an invisible chair.  It's the best emulation of continuous hard carving I know. 

Wall sits as a test piece are all well and good. Making them a part of your regular workout is a good precursor to patellar tendonitis. Particularly if one has already done quad work as part of the training session.

---

None of which is to suggest that general fitness isn’t a worthy pursuit. One may find, however, that overall tone and coordination is more useful than strength.

Consider that it takes a lot of fitness to ride poorly, and very little to ride well.

 

On August 14, 2017 at 6:43 AM, Tugboater said:

So what are you doing/planning on doing to prepare for the upcoming season?

Sofa, bon-bons, and riding the hardtail on moderately technical terrain at slow speed and low resistance. 

Also multiple overhanging ladder climbs to the cab on the log loader, and walking about on uneven surfaces toting a running chainsaw.

Edited September 2, 2017 by Beckmann AG

[lowrider]

Sharpening the saw throwing in 10 cord of firewood usually all the prep i need for a season .Remembering not to jump down off the tractor. ( bad for the knees) and i'm good to go !

[philw]

On 9/2/2017 at 10:52 PM, Beckmann AG said:

...
Consider that it takes a lot of fitness to ride poorly, and very little to ride well.
...

That is also my view, although I've obviously not seen anyone here ride so I'm not suggesting that is relevant to them specifically.
 (Translation: I'm not saying your riding sucks, just that it's better to perfect one's technique than to develop muscles to deal with poor technique.) 

When I was learning I would seldom ride top to bottom without stopping even though I was very fit from other sports. These days, shifting from a desk job to full-time riding hurts a bit for three days, but then I'm good to go. I'm much less fit, but I no longer waste any effort doing the wrong things. And I no longer stop.

I use the gym as part of generally taking care of myself, but I'd be extremely wary of things which change your physiology like "body building".

[Neil Gendzwill]

39 minutes ago, philw said:

I use the gym as part of generally taking care of myself, but I'd be extremely wary of things which change your physiology like "body building".

"Body building" aka training for hypertrophy is a completely different kettle of fish from the sports-specific weight training routines people have been suggesting.  And yes, if you are efficient you will be able to ride longer than an inefficient fit guy.  However, hard carving on the groom is putting a load on your legs regardless of how good you are at it, and is far more taxing than a powder day or just general cruising around.  Time in the gym can be a very good thing for most hard booters.

[FrankNBeans]

Summer is coming to a very quick end. Pedaling and releasing the ones I have caught brings winter that much closer. And between Slayer, Angry Samoans, and The Minutemen, these are always humming through my headphones. Enjoy.

https://youtu.be/eGAT1rL2f3w

https://youtu.be/Epgo8ixX6Wo

 

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2017 by FrankNBeans

[lordmetroland]

On 9/8/2017 at 4:07 PM, FrankNBeans said:

And between Slayer, Angry Samoans, and The Minutemen

Praise God, it's the Holy Trio! There may be a greater dumb song than "Lights Out" but I'm not aware of it. Actually, "Angel of Death" comes pretty close...

[Lurch]

I'm with you Jim; pow destroys me - I think its the constant lack of push back'feel' from the board that does me over -  a reflex of always trying to find bottom (which makes zero sense)

[Beckmann AG]

^

Using cycling as analog, riding groomed is like riding smooth pavement, whereas riding powder is like riding training rollers. To the extent that your geometry and technique can be 'deficient' without mishap on the firm and smooth, but you'll be constantly fighting for stability on the more reactive surfaces, and that will wear you out in a hurry.

On the other hand, if things are as they should be, one surface should be just as stable as the other.

It's not like the board can tell the difference.