Jack M Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 On 1/27/2017 at 9:53 PM, RCrobar said: ... Also, the only time I can remember reading guys talking about a board being awesome, but very hard on the legs and tiring to ride, has been the new and narrow 18cm wide Madd killer. That has everything to do with the sidecut radius (unpublished but it's gotta be under 9m if you ask me) dictating that you make a thousand turns in one run, and nothing to do with board width. That said, the widest modern carving board I owned was 21cm and I didn't find it any more tiresome. I should probably go back to that width now that I think about it. Also Coiler Monster owners sure do loooove those boards. My old Burton Safari was 26.7cm at the waist. Loved it at the time. I think board width only becomes a problem when the board is simply too wide for your feet even at 0/0, which can be an issue for people with smaller feet. As for the video posted by erazz, yeah, no thanks. Looks like asking for an Achilles rupture. Those guys need BX boards. But the maneuver at 1:01 is ballsy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 On 1/25/2017 at 6:25 PM, philw said: Burton gave up on Carving way back in the 1990s. Actually the Factory Prime was in the main Burton catalog until 2001, with the same billing as any other board. That year the FPs just had an off-black gloss topsheet with a logo and the specs text. In 2002 (autumn of 2001) they exiled all the alpine stuff to a separate Burton catalog, and no softbooter would ever see another piece of alpine marketing again unless they went out of their way to pick up that catalog. The FP was renamed "Speed". The 2002 boards were black with a faux mother-of-pearl tail. They were actually quite good looking, someone went to a lot of effort on those graphics. The 2003 Speeds were gray with red "blood splatter". In 2004 the whole alpine line was spun off into the pseudo-brand R17 Addicted, which had the appearance of having nothing to do with Burton. I believe shape and construction innovation ceased with the 2002 line. I don't think R17s were built for more than 1 or 2 years. I heard from a prominent Northeastern US Burton rep near the end, that the majority of world cup riders were on Burton boards at the time, and that they were sick of bankrolling that party without getting any competition or marketing exposure out of it. Too bad, as they were about to get an education from Kessler. Imagine how Burton could have reverse engineered that tech and trickled it down to BX and freeride boards. What a shame for them. Oops, sorry for the tangent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) 23 hours ago, lonbordin said: It's possible to have too much sail but I've rarely run into that situation. I'm an avid dinghy sailor in the non-winter months. At my size I'm almost always wishing for more sail. I was out in my Force 5 last summer when it was gusting over 30 knots... You couldn't wipe the smile off my face and I didn't break a thing!!! Sooo... Can you purchase a larger windbag for the dingo ( prêt-à-porter or custom), or is such a thing unavailable on account of non-viability in the marketplace? Quote That has everything to do with the sidecut radius (unpublished but it's gotta be under 9m if you ask me) dictating that you make a thousand turns in one run, and nothing to do with board width. A rider accustomed to a wider board will, out of necessity, recruit slightly different (and 'clumsier') muscle groups to ride in a similar manner on a narrower board. So, the unfamiliar control scenario, in combination with sharper response, will challenge the rider's equilibrium to a greater extent, leading to premature fatigue. Edited January 31, 2017 by Beckmann AG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terekhov Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 9 hours ago, corey_dyck said: Doesn't every softboot movie contradict this? Surely all of those riders wouldn't be better off on monoskis in choppy terrain? i have no dogs in this fight too, so monoski can be not a best tool for surfing, but whatever... ;) Jenny Curran: Do you ever dream, Forrest, about who you're gonna be? Forrest Gump: Who I'm gonna be? Jenny Curran: Yeah. Forrest Gump: Aren't-aren't I going to be me? so I want to be just me. every softboot movie is not my surfing. and hopefully I can critically feel my neck's circumstances. on that point BTW many years ago I decided to go without helmet.. I wrote those words here only to state different perspective in ongoing theme, not to oppose it. everyone destined to his own surfing, and it can be very different. aren't all hardboot idea not stating that we all here on BOL IS different per se? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teach Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) On 1/30/2017 at 3:36 AM, WinterGold said: There is a lot of speculating and theory in this thread now, but I guess that some of those riders never really found out their perfect width by experimenting with different shapes. I still think that adding a centimeter or better two to the average production board, would better reflect our anatomy. I've experimented. With US 13 feet, using UPZ 312 mm shells (28) I find that over about 20 cm waist is really hard on my knees. I can measure the effect: If I can ride the next day or not! That's with ibuprofen, before and after. Around 20 cm / 60 degrees seems to minimize tweakage of my knees. 50 degrees/ 23 cm wide is really punishing. Even 21.5 cm is rough. Softboots... haven't used them in years, but it's worse. I used M30 soft boots and 26.5 waist boards at around 40 degrees (to avoid boot-out, so I agree with the OP... why are soft-boot boards so narrow given the prescribed stances?) On 1/27/2017 at 9:53 PM, RCrobar said: Many times I have read guys stating that riding a wide board is more tiring then riding a narrower board. The explanation as to why is generally the idea that more leverage is created making it more tiring, makes sense I guess. Tiring isn't the issue. SL boards are more tiring because they encourage more turns per foot. Wider boards (for me) bring more pounding per foot. Totally different. One makes a good day, the other a rough day, ice, and an enforced rest day afterwards. 13 hours ago, Jack Michaud said: I think board width only becomes a problem when the board is simply too wide for your feet even at 0/0, which can be an issue for people with smaller feet. People differ! Edited January 31, 2017 by teach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterGold Posted January 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 teach, those 45degrees I proposed on the backfoot aren't for everybody as I stated in the first post. And they shouldn't be! As variety makes life more interesting! If you have problems with your knees and you found a way around it then that is perfect! But from a pure performance standpoint it is an interesting angle and a good starting point for your alpine setup. The question of the narrow production softboots boards remains as you wonder yourself . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterGold Posted January 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I just came across the 2017/18 Jones snowboards catalog. On the first double page you see Jeremy laying out an amazing frontside! And this is part of the text - These are the best turns I have ever made. For someone who has been snowboarding for the better part of thirty years, those are not words I thought I would say on a hardpack February day. Jeremy is riding a wide board. (Jones Storm Chaser) I could have written the same lines. After riding for 30 years I am having my best turns ever on wider boards. Just give them a spin if you haven't already. You might have the best turns of your life as well . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 9 hours ago, WinterGold said: On the first double page you see Jeremy laying out an amazing frontside! Is that heelside or toeside? ;-P With all due respect to Jones, I have to assume he's not including his time in hardboots when he makes that statement, because his audience is softbooters. 13 hours ago, teach said: With US 13 feet, using UPZ 312 mm shells (28) How are you in a Mondopoint 28 boot with US size 13 gunboats? I don't think you can isolate your issues to board width, it could be that lower binding angles just don't agree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Jack Michaud said: How are you in a Mondopoint 28 boot with US size 13 gunboats? I'm in those same shells and my shoe are mostly size 13s... I have a couple of 14s in the closet as well as one pair of 12s. Manufacturers last sizes vary so wildly. Maybe we can all agree never to speak of shoe size again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teach Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 On 1/31/2017 at 1:37 PM, Jack Michaud said: How are you in a Mondopoint 28 boot with US size 13 gunboats? I've got about one finger space in the bare shell, works great, very comfortable with the thin stock liners and a thin footbed. On 1/31/2017 at 1:37 PM, Jack Michaud said: I don't think you can isolate your issues to board width, it could be that lower binding angles just don't agree with you. I don't think so either. But the change in angle going from 20 cm to 21.5 cm is pretty small, max 3 degrees, and doesn't feel different when riding, but my knees are more beat up at the end of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterGold Posted February 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 lonbordin started a thread on "Carving is back ..." - it overlaps with some discussions here and it is very interesting! Just talking about the board width again - the "Freestyle Carving" revolution is on! No company dares to ignore it for the next season! But they are still ignoring hardbooting and their softboot carving attempts are often funny ... Nidecker - their softboot carvers are 24cm wide ... how is that supposed to work ... Neversummer - some boards are at least 26.5cm wide (others just mid 25cm), but still barely carveable with softboots ... A guy from the industry just now told me to a. use higher angles (where shall I go? alpine angles in softboots?) b. Palmer plates (who wants those things on a powder board???) and c. cut excess rubber from my softboots (I gladly cut up top of the line softboots for like 500$). From the description of the Yes Optimistic - keep in mind that the board still isn´t that wide (26.6cm in 157) - It’s wide. And wide is good. This allows you to ride the board up to 6cm shorter, giving you more maneuverability in the trees and easier spins in the air. Width also creates stability at speed and floatation in the deep that we used to associate with length. It also begs to be leaned-over as far as you dare on the groomers, which is fun as hell! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterGold Posted February 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 Coming back to hardbooting ... It is coming!!! For a production board this is pretty amazing news! A full on SL raceboard with about 22cm of waist width! Everybody who has big feet rejoice and everybody who wants to ride lower angles on his or her SL setup rejoice as well . SG FullRace Titan 163 XT - available for next season! I think it is great that a company makes this bold move and does not just look at the sales numbers ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordmetroland Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 27 minutes ago, WinterGold said: It’s wide. And wide is good. This allows you to ride the board up to 6cm shorter, giving you more maneuverability in the trees and easier spins in the air. I love this. "Suspend your critical thinking for just a moment because we have some marketing coming your way! The board doesn't have to be as long because it's - get this - wiiiiiiiiider." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1xsculler Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 Never bring up US shoe size again....can't help myself and I hope it helps someone else figure out their MP size. My foot measures 28.2 cm. I can walk into any shoes store in the US that has one of those cast aluminum sizing devices and I measure a US size 12.5. Most all of mystreet shoes are 12.5 and have been for years. If my foot measured 28.3cm I might have a problem although I know others with a 28.5cm foot who can make a 28 work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRAZZ Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 ^^^ Tell me about it. Depends on time of day I measure my left foot at either 27.5 or 28cm. Apparently the Deeluxe size of 28 is just a tad too big and I can't get my foot in a 27 I do wear a US size 10.5. Screw it, just go to a store and measure. At this point I'd rather have the store be responsible for making the boot fit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 3 hours ago, 1xsculler said: Never bring up US shoe size again....can't help myself and I hope it helps someone else figure out their MP size. My foot measures 28.2 cm. I can walk into any shoes store in the US that has one of those cast aluminum sizing devices and I measure a US size 12.5. Most all of mystreet shoes are 12.5 and have been for years. If my foot measured 28.3cm I might have a problem although I know others with a 28.5cm foot who can make a 28 work. 28 and 28.5 are the same shell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 6 hours ago, WinterGold said: Coming back to hardbooting ... It is coming!!! For a production board this is pretty amazing news! A full on SL raceboard with about 22cm of waist width! Everybody who has big feet rejoice and everybody who wants to ride lower angles on his or her SL setup rejoice as well . SG FullRace Titan 163 XT - available for next season! I think it is great that a company makes this bold move and does not just look at the sales numbers ... Now give that sucker a slightly upturned and rounded tail and I'm in :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCrobar Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 Seemed logical to put Sean's width video and PDF in this thread, perhaps some haven't seen this before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, RCrobar said: Seemed logical to put Sean's width video and PDF in this thread, perhaps some haven't seen this before. Well I posted the angulation guide back on page 4 of this wild ride. But the more the merrier. Still would like to hear how Sean came up with those angles. Edited February 7, 2017 by lonbordin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCrobar Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 Hi Lonbordin Quote Well I posted the angulation guide back on page 4 of this wild ride. But the more the merrier. Still would like to hear how Sean came up with those angles. Yes, your original page 4 post reminded me of the video ... so the idea was just a bit of back up:) I too would like to hear how Sean came up with these angles ... I wonder if painters tape was involved:) Cheers Rob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terekhov Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 9 hours ago, lordmetroland said: I love this. "Suspend your critical thinking for just a moment because we have some marketing coming your way! The board doesn't have to be as long because it's - get this - wiiiiiiiiider." and do not forget the mother of all wide & short boards - monoski from 70ies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aracan Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 Quote Is that heelside or toeside? A peeside, I presume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 Thread reference at 5:50... in the following video. https://youtu.be/FTmyuWG7XBY 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterGold Posted February 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 He loves the little extra width! Don´t we all love the "new" possibilities? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik J Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 Did you get a wider board yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.