Advantages of hardboot snowboarding?

[JRAZZ]

As there have been discussions on what we prefer and what the state of the sport is a question has formed in my mind. What are the advantages of hardboot snowboarding?

It's very obvious that the people here prefer hardboots. Very clear that people use them all over the mountain.

But as a very green hardboot rider I tried to find the WHY ride hardboots. What are the advantages? Are they more comfortable? Ability to apply pressure to the edge and carve better?

I find it a challenge and that's enough for me but right now softboots are way more comfortable on everything that isn't an easy green run. Some seem to prefer hardboots period.

So why hardboots?

[Jack M]

[Beckmann AG]

If you've ever hit a near perfect drive with a golf club, or driven a framing spike deep into a beam with a direct hammer strike, it's like that, but with exponential notation.

Under the right circumstances, the pointillist stars become lines (yes, it's a trap!):

 

 

Softbooting, by comparison, is more like this:

 

Edited March 28, 2016 by Beckmann AG

[rjnakata]

^ spot on and:

^^ spot on.

Edited March 28, 2016 by rjnakata

[gdboytyler]

...

So why hardboots?

 

I thought there use to be a FAQ for this?

 

Pros:

• More comfy if fitted properly
• Shorter sole length = lower binding angle to prevent boot out
• Better for carving/edge control
• Wins races
• Better for splitboarding (if an AT boot)

I originally got hardboots because soft boots started to kill my feet whenever I carved a turn.

[SunSurfer]

Why hard booting? From my seat, wearing my 207cm GS skis (that tells you how long ago), on the Mt Hutt chairlift the guy carving short swing turns looked so sinuous, and smooth, and awesome! "That is the most graceful thing I've ever seen. I have got to learn to do that!"

[pmorita]

More people pointing at you from the chairlift.

[Missionman]

Its implicit in what most of you guys are saying, but the biggest benefit IMO is edge control using lateral movements of the body (transmitted through the hardshells) - something you can only do with difficulty on softboots (using muscles rather than the boots themselves).   Same reason why you will never see soft shells on skis.  

 

The ability to apply edge control laterally across the boot means you can ride more forward without the need of a highback for leverage on the heel side turn.   

 

That's a great pic Jack, but a better pic would be of someone laying out a turn heelside - much harder to do on softboots with one's bindings at ~0 angles.  I can find more softbooter that can layout the toeside vs the heelside.

 

So, again its implicit in what some of you have written, the other PRO is the aesthetic of the turn, particularly on the heel side, that (because of lateral boot pressure transfer to edge and hence more forward facing stances), you can lay out and not find yourself "sitting on the toilet" to apply that edge pressure.

 

And then its all about the added control and stability that one gets at higher speeds due to the stiffer interface (hence larger turn radii on hardboot boards).

 

Right?

[b0ardski]

Way more aesthetic

[Jack M]

 

That's a great pic Jack, but a better pic would be of someone laying out a turn heelside - much harder to do on softboots with one's bindings at ~0 angles.  I can find more softbooter that can layout the toeside vs the heelside.

 

I don't try to layout heelside, but...

[ursle]

Was this a few years ago, south face at Sunapee? (mybad if not)

A perfect example of excellence with hardboots, it was a really hard crust and only the ice carvers were able to enjoy the conditions (not me), but a few were balanced and enjoying it, and that's what Alpine Hardbooting is, the ability to tip the board vertical on ice.(it's easy in pow or soft snow)

 

If bomber doesn't want to allow a small niche of riders the space to exchange ideas, so be it.

 

 

[Neil Gendzwill]

Aside from the support they provide, the construction of hardboots allows angles greater than softboots will allow.  Softboots don't work well above 30 and reach their limit at 45, which is the starting point for hardboot angles for most people.  The angled stance lets your body flex more in alignment with the edge, which means you can put more pressure directly to the edge, which results in turns like you see in the pictures above.  The angled stance and increased support means that you can avoid boot-out.  Ryan Knapton who has posted here runs a 31 cm waisted board to avoid boot out at +-15 stance with size 8 feet.   I run 21.5 cm with size 10 feet and 55f/50r angles.

[nigelc]

With hardboots I can get to the mountain and still enjoy those days that are groomer only "hard as" hardback.

It's that simple. We get alot of those days.

[Jack M]

Was this a few years ago, south face at Sunapee?

 

 

 

Yep!

[queequeg]

That's a great pic Jack, but a better pic would be of someone laying out a turn heelside - much harder to do on softboots with one's bindings at ~0 angles.  I can find more softbooter that can layout the toeside vs the heelside.

 

 

 

:D

 

 

[philw]

... So why hardboots?

 

Good question.

1. Control

   I don't like slop in my control systems: when I move, I want the board to respond.

   This is a matter of personal taste: most of my gear for most of my sports is highly responsive in a way which makes it unpleasant for many people to use.

   This is true as much in powder as it is on piste, although the action's a little different.

   That's the same reason most people don't like hard boots.

    

2. Fit

   I put my boots on and forget them. They're hard shells: once they fit, they always fit, always the same, always right, nothing to fiddle with or worry about.

    

3. Snowboards ridden this way work on piste.

   I delayed learning to snowboard after Regis showed the way because I wanted boards with edges and proper boots. The reason I wanted those was that in Europe most of the time, piste is what you'll be riding, and windsurfer-bindings on plywood boards can't hack it. I still ride piste because I like it. When my washed-up snowboarding mates complain that there's no powder and that "snowboards suck on piste", I laugh and get my race board & hard boots out. My rationale for that hasn't changed.

    

4. In Powder

   I ride powder boards but hard boots & bindings.

   The advantages of the boots/ bindings over what most people use are control/ fit/ comfort.

   In addition I have the advantage of an Alpine stance , developed for gates, but useful for trees in my experience.

    

5. No boards

   For completeness, hard boots really suck on no boards. They have no advantage here.

[jja]

1. For completeness, hard boots really suck on no boards. They have no advantage here.

 

 

Don't hit the snooze button. That extra 9 minutes puts you out at the end of the parking lot, and that's a long walk!

[bumpyride]

Plain and simple:

 

1.  riding bumps and steeps

 

2. shoulders  perpendicular to the fall line

 

3. control

 

4, direction changes and absorption with the knees

 

5. arms not swinging like Don Quixote

 

6. thermoflex liners and riding in the walk mode most comfortable boots I've ever been in

 

7. the ability to click out of the bindings on the flat and step in when exiting the lift

 

8. with front foot at 60 degree plus angle you can scooter along about as fast as most skiers pole and skate

 

9. with Intec bindings you can run webbing up your legs and arms and extricate yourself in the most inopportune times-especially tree wells

 

10. people look at you like you've got equipment from 1980 and yelling "old school".

[b0ardski]

Bumpy and Phil pretty much nailed it!

[Corey]

If you were to post the inverse question on most other sites, I think you get most of the same reasons listed above as to why people like their softboots. Well, plus some rude comments about people that ride hardboots. ;)

I like my hardboots a lot when carving, and don't want to bother finding something that works as well or better in other conditions as those other conditions represent such a small percentage of my riding time.

[RCrobar]

Hello

 

Some great points already listed.

 

The trade off between hardboots and softboots, IMHO is .... Hardboots=Power and Softboots=Mobility

 

A hardboot set up can be made to approach the mobility of softboots and softboots can be made to approach the power of hardboots.  IMHO each type of boot has not been able to surpass each other's key advantage of power vs mobility.  For this reason it is nice to have both types of equipment, if this helps to meet your riding needs.

 

If you were to post the inverse question on most other sites, I think you get most of the same reasons listed above as to why people like their softboots. Well, plus some rude comments about people that ride hardboots. ;) 

 

 

 

I love my hardboots, but I agree with Corey's comments above.

 

Cheers

Rob

[workshop7]

In 1990 I was working at a little mountain in NH, Temple Mt. On the way from the rental shop to the lodge one day I saw a good friend of mine on his Checker Pig G6 and Raichle ski boots carving these incredible turns. Up until that moment I had never seen snowboarding as something I wanted to try. After seeming someone carving in hardboots I was out on the hill the next day.

For the next 10 years I rode hardboots only. It wasn't until 2001, when I started going to CO for a week or two a year that I realized the benefits of riding soft boots and a more flexible and wider board and I started riding soft boots more often. From 2008 until 2014 I rode soft boots far more than hard. I love the trees and powder but I always come back to carving turns. There isn't a run that I take in which I don't carve at least a few turns.

In the last two seasons I have been riding hardboots a lot. I have missed, but didn't realize it until I got back on, the precision. Everything that you do on hardboots, from angulation to body position, each and every little movement, translates into success or disaster. When I want to really lay it out on a steep on my soft boots, I have to force the board to hold. Like driving a cargo van full of tools on a race coarse, you can do it, but it doesn't feel right. Riding hardboots is like driving an open wheel race car on that same track and laughing out loud as people on the lift above you call out in approval. Wait...there's a ski lift on this race track?!

[philw]

I wonder why this keeps coming up, really. I kind of think of myself as a snowboarder, and I'm still surprised really when people point out I'm "weird" I think really it's their issue not mine. I bother them: they don't bother me.

 

Another take: if I was starting today, I think I'd still use hard boots. Sure, I'd learn with everyone else on the softies, but sooner or later, as I have with all my sports, I'd be after precision and control. I don't actually think people in soft boots claim those things as their own, but if they do, they're wrong on that.

[RCrobar]

Hello

 

Watch the mobility of the ankles, knees and hips in this surf inspired skateboard pumping video; this video is all about carving perfect turns.  If you can see and enjoy the fun and the beauty of the turns this young guy is making in a driveway, you will better understand why advanced softbooters love their equipment even though the equipment is not as precise.

 

https://player.vimeo.com/video/139766563?autoplay=1

 

For me the dream has always been to find the perfect marriage between the power and precision of hard boots with the mobility and flow of softboots.  

 

Since we are on a plate binding website and many here love hardboots ... I often dream of a new All Mountain plate binding that finds a balance between the low angle mobility of the F2Carve RS and the well thought out design and precision of the TD Sidewider.  I am guessing I am not alone!

 

My Fingers are Crossed:)

Rob 

Edited April 3, 2016 by RCrobar

[Rob Stevens]

You could probably pull off both styles with rotating baseplates and a third strap w/ lockable highback. Some fellas really got shit on in years past for suggesting such things, but I could see the advantages.

I could never handle hardboots in powder... I tried to like it, but with no support under the edge, I'd sink when powering, and sink when powering by mistake. The middle ground, where I really had to think about pressuring very accurately, was just too much to concentrate on.

The other day I had the group out in good snow at our cat op. I was bindingless and, as usual, was caught off balance. O, the things I did with my body, to keep the board running straight and flat, until I could get back to centre, and recover. In hardboots, I would have just fallen over, as the first twitch would have gone straight to the unsupported edge.

Sometimes, a lack of precision is as good as millimeter perfect.