Yield to down hill rider/skier

[jtslalom]

Riding at my local resort in northern NJ can be scary at times. On the weekends starting around 10:00 - 10:30 am the crowds start coming. By 11:00 it seems half of northern NJ and NYC is riding down the slopes. This isn't bad if, as a local rider, you know how to avoid the crowds. This avoidance occurs mainly by riding any steep slopes. Usually the crowds tend to stay off these slopes. Today was the exception. While riding down our steepest slope and driving good round turns I noticed a big puff of snow to my uphill side while just starting a toe-side turn. Not thinking much of it I continued my line down hill making another dozen or so turns and eventually coming to the end of the slope and then the lift. While unbuckling I noticed another rider trying to get my attention. I stood up from unbuckling after the rider tapped me on the shoulder. He said, "You cut me off on the slope. I was coming down and you were making big turns and cut me off." I started to laugh a little, smiled and replied, " I can't see up hill while I'm riding. Being the uphill rider, you have to yield to me. I am downhill." He said, " You can't turn like that on these slopes. What makes you think you are aloud to turn like that?" I replied, " I am aloud to turn like that and always do. You have to be aware of how people are riding below you and yield to them." After this the kid got a little belligerent and basically told me I suck for turning the way I did. I basically said just because you suck as a rider and can't control your speed doesn't give you the right to yell at me. A few more words were exchanged and then both of us parted.

 

I am happy that the kid didn't hit me and rather bit it off the side of the slope to avoid an accident. It was funny seeing the kid for the first time and noticing that he looked like a snowman. I am surprised that he truly thought that I was at fault. It goes to show you how ignorant some riders/skiers are. I wish that I had handled the situation a little better but I just couldn't take the fact that he thought I was at fault and had no understanding what so ever about the skier responsibility code. I guess from my perspective I shouldn't carve turns like that during crowded hours but it was my last run and I didn't want to waste it. 

[SnowboardingJ]

Lucky you JT. I got clipped the first heel side turn at the bottom of Kamikaze last Sunday by a skier and was told he was cut off twice that day. I told him politely that the downhill person has the right of way. He was a nice guy, didn't argue with me. He even asked if I was OK at first and during the conversation.

I wish there are more riders like us on the hill so that people are more aware there could be riders who make transverse across the slope at speed. Or some signs or warnings about downhill riders. It is just difficult at a crowed resort. I almost landed on a rider years ago at the park at MC. I landed deep in the landing coming off of a rail. The boarder was cruising at the side and not looking to hit anything. It just happened that for some unknown reason, he decided to make transverse across the landing. I wasn't aware of that until I looked at the video. If I landed a second ago, we would have a collision no doubt.

I always wait for my turn when I go to the park. But at MC, it seems like a chaos. Sometime you see 3-4 guys hit a jump almost simultaneously. Well, it's been years last I hit the park. Things might have changed.

Hope to see you at MC tomorrow.

Edited February 28, 2015 by SnowboardingJ

[teach]

Steeper runs are actually the worst, in my opinion. Even if they're less crowded, they selectively attract the most careless riders (the ones who rate their prowess by what they can "get down"), and straightliners have a much bigger speed advantage. On less steep pitches, the straightlining advantage is mostly negated by open coats, flailing arms, twisting boards, sliding tails, poor equipment maintenance, etc.

 

" You can't turn like that on these slopes. What makes you think you are aloud to turn like that?"

I love it when people just make stuff up. But at many hills you'd be hard-pressed to find the responsibility code written anywhere. Even the rangers where I ride are fuzzy on it. Most riders/skiers I've talked to are unaware of it. That includes very experienced skiers.

 

Good that you didn't get hit and that the kid didn't meet a big rock or snowmaking water pipe or something.

[Bobby Buggs]

Lol open coats. Hope they are NY Giants jackets, just sayin

[loopback]

But at many hills you'd be hard-pressed to find the responsibility code written anywhere. 

Agreed 100%.

Mont Tremblant, in Quebec has the responsibility code written (yes;in French and English) on the back of the napkins in all the resort cafeteria's.

I grab them by the handful and keep them in my pockets and have actually had to hand one out to a skier after a near collision and ensuing "discussion".

Unfortunately this is the only hill I am aware of that does this.

[bigwavedave]

This seems to happen more and more. Surprising that skiers seem not to know the code, 3 simple rules-of-the-road that are so often ignored:

1. Yield right of way to skiers/riders below you.

2. Always stop where visible from above and off to the side, out of the way.

3. Always look uphill for oncoming traffic before starting out again, or when merging with another trail. 

 

I've had skiers almost hit me from behind and then tell me at the bottom that I shouldn't do all those turns. I say " Isn't it funny that the ultimate measure of a skier's skill has always been the ability to link turns through a course with gates, maybe you should try and learn to turn."

 

Then, I'd like to hand them a card printed with the above rules from the "skier's code".

 

Maybe patrollers could exercise their power to enforce the rules. Apparently these rules are actually written into the statutes of many states with ski areas.

 

3 weeks ago I was slammed from behind by a skier (out of controll? I never saw him coming). He went right up the back of my 1 month old board and curled the edge and ptex forward!  Not to mention that I was sore for for a couple of weeks.  And, no apology, nothing!  When some one is clearly at fault and does damage, should they pay?

 

SoftBootSailor just posted that he was also clipped from behind yesterday by a skier that should have known better and insisted that he was not at fault!

[jatkinson]

Many many years ago some ancient miserable guy came up behind me while I was doing mini turns on one side of a cat track.  He wanted to pass me so he started hitting me with his pole on my shoulders/head.  When he passed me he was yelling at me about clogging up the run (which I was only using about half of).

 

I was about 15 at the time and so shocked that I didn't say or do anything.  If that happened today it would probably end quite differently.

[utahcarver]

Living in Utah presents different circumstances than back east. But, I've been run-down by a phone-wielding skier at PCMR who verbosely apologized when I alerted him that his ancestry probably included coprolyte. My heck-fire, what the hell is wrong with people? Phones? Really? While skiing?

 

That said, I have always checked my peripheral uphill every chance I get. Easy to do on toe-side; you have to be a magician to do it on heel-side. Another trick is not wear earbuds with loud music in crowded conditions. Mid-week at the mountain I ride at, you can crank the tunes and almost disregard checking peripheral uphill skiers/boarders. Remember, the hordes meet according to the 40 hour plan. So weekends and all holidays are crowded. Save your A-game for mid-weeks or early mornings. Get on it early, get out quick, and use the afternoon for something else. Note: watch skateboarders. They do the same thing to avoid the cops and rent-a-cops. Guerrilla snowboarding. Take what you can get and leave the chop and ice for the masses. 

 

One other thing: We rarely talk about this here on Bomberonline.com but alcohol is another no-no for my personal experience. I don't drink until apres' ski. I've done it the other way years ago and I always ended up with a raging headache, turns out I get altitude sickness every time I go to my ski areas and alcohol enhances the experience. Therefore, I've always waited until I get back to town OR during the spring slush fest I don't ride as much and hang out on the tailgate and ice chest, dutch ovens, and grill. The reciprocal is also active: You don't know who the other guy/gal is who may be impaired by drugs or alcohol or some other boutique drug they've ingested in the parking lot. I realize I'm using a broad brush stroke here but, I work in the alcohol beverage industry and I know what trouble looks and smells like. Be safe out there and keep making lines.

 

As far as the Rules of the HIl: I've been told by a lady in pants tighter than an accountants wallet that she was going to report me to the Ski Patrol for making ruts in her ski run. I assisted her to the Ski Patrol office where she could continue her ravings to the appropriate officer in charge. Most of whom I know and they know me. It helps to be personable and carry oneself with some aplomb in life. 

 

Mark

[softbootsurfer]

Indeed...currently dealing with getting run over by a straightener, said It was MY responsibility to look uphill and make sure no one is coming down IF your going to turn like that!  He is a 37 year local that yelled at me " You Snowboarders that go back uphill on your turns have no right to do that" 

Well I have asked him twice to go to the Patrol with me, so they cam make him aware and report the accident...he won't go so I have gone to the patrol and at some point he will be made aware...He hit me on a narrow tree run under the chair that I had done twice previously and there was No One else anywhere on that run...

Twice on Ajax and now at Milk ,thats 3 times and everytime it is the same story..."You Can't turn like That !!! " and then the Patrol explains how it works and they give a half ass "Sorry"  Why ? because in their Minds they are the Victim 

 

Some things never change...though glad to say that always able to continue on without serious injury 

[nigelc]

I haven't been hit now for a few seasons, but I had a bad patch where I got hit six times from behind in one year. In the same season a fellow snowboarder I was riding with was nailed from behind hard enough to rip the rear catek out of her board by pulling the inserts out. In addition One lady skier i was riding with got smashed while we were both stopped off the side of the trail in clear view. In all these incidents  the skier or boarder coming from above has insisted that it was not their fault.

 

The last guy to hit me got me pretty hard about 200m above the ski patrol hut. We slid about 70-80m and when I enquired if he he was allright he had a go at me. Step-ins are great for this I unclipped both boots, picked up my board with my left hand and dragged him on his back by his hood straight down hill toward the ski patrollers hut. He got a ticking off from a patroller but still refused to accept blame. Sadly his skis were still some way uphill at the scene. oh well...

[Missionman]

might as well share a few stories here.  

 

So i am teaching my son on a beginner green.  Things are going well as i watch my son slowly learn when all of a sudden i feel something hit me from behind and then almost immediately some young adult emerges, between my legs!  The irony for this website is that my son and I were on skis while the guy that hit me was on a snowboard.  I was snowplowing on my skis and this guy has lost enough control that he was going straight and couldn't turn and i guess ducked.  He didn't quite go through my legs though - he got half way (almost -I'm only 5'8" so a full grown adult ducking through my legs is imposssible) - but the easiest way for him to get out of the mess in the end was to finish going through my legs.   It always shocks me that people learning to snowboard have an inclination to go straight down a hill rather than across the fall line (where i think you can learn better edge control as well as not kill oneself and others).  We were both ok.  He apologized and i'm not too upset with him.

 

My other story - I am still learning with my son on the greens (he was only 3 yrs old at that time and is now 5 - next year a snowboard!) and there is some guy who was teaching his daughter to ski.  He thinks he's cool by skiiing backwards with her.  Well it was cool until he hit me.  I was pissed - he could have hit my son.  He thinks its funny.  HIs daughter says - "I told you to look out dad".  Well, one run later he is doing it again and as he's going backwards towards my son's line so i shout "Hey look out for my son!" If my son weren't around I would have put an f-bomb in there.  He did avoid my son because i shouted. If he hit my son I would seriously have popped him one, and maybe ripped off his skis.  He didn't say sorry or anything - he was too cool and his pride would probably have been too hurt.  More the reason why i would have gotten violent with him.

 

Oh another story- I have been hit from behind my some older lady at Whiteface while I was on my snowboard.  I didn't do anything crazy but - no hard cut across the mountain or anything just a reasonable turn to my right on my heelside.  Well after the collision I ask her if she's ok and she says nothing and she looks all annoyed and upset with me.  And then I think "kiss my a55 lady - you hit me".  Well the great part of the story for me was that she yard saled from the collision while i never even fell off my feet.  And so i just proceeded down the hill.  (She was fine)

 

Final story with my son again - my wife takes video of my son going down a hill.  So I only got to watch this after the fact.  He's going down this blue hill doing his turns nothing crazy.  Its a good video - serene almost.  Then I see on the video some snowboarded (again a beginnner) approaching my son on one of his turns.  Well rather than take the chance of slamming my son - the snowboarder bails and eats it - snow, tumbling, violence.  Nice of the snowboarder. My son doesn't even notice and happily continues his run down the hill   Thanks beginner snowboarder guy, wherever and whoever you are.  :) 

[RyanN]

Up at my home resort in central California I was making large turns down an intermediate run. I always look up to make sure I have room and didn't see anyone coming down...the run was pretty empty. Towards the bottom of the run I got smashed by a skier while in the middle of a toe side turn (I'm assuming he straight lined it). After hitting me he immediately got up and yelled, "What the F was that" multiple times. I calmly told him that I was the downhill rider and it was his responsibility to look out for me. A group of patrollers were riding up the lift and saw the whole thing. From the lift they yelled at the skier telling him he was skiing way too fast and was at fault for the accident. He looked at me, said, "I guess I'm wrong then", and skied off...no apology.

[Dusty Bottle]

Glad to hear you're okay softbootsailer and not seriously injured!!!

 

It happens no matter how crowded or barren the run and I've been lucky... a few times!  Example: A few years back, while sitting off to the side of a run, waiting for others to catch up, an idiot punk boarder thought at the last minute, it would be funny to cut between us at speed!  Luckily, he only nicked the nose of my pristine Volant 173 metal top leaving a quarter-sized divot and although I tried to catch him, it was crowded that day, better judgement prevailed and I wrote it off as a "could of been much worse" situation!

 

This season I brought out my red jacket trying to give some extra warning, yet my close encounter 5 weeks ago resulted in a leg cast!  The run was empty and I stopped mid-run to check uphill and only one lone skier had just entered the top of the run, so I ventured out!  The skier caught me before the bottom and blew past the nose of my board by only inches, causing an out of control chatter!  The skier was just a blur!

 

So I wonder why this happens so often?  Could it be object fixation? - Having participated in high-speed racing, I know you WILL go where you look!  Maybe we're just MESMERIZING to straight-liners!  Who knows?

 

later

James

Edited March 2, 2015 by Dusty Bottle

[Corey]

Has anyone here tried to pass another carver? It's hard! And we know basically what the other person is doing. I don't say that to justify an idiot that may not even know what the responsibility code is, but just that you almost have to aim for someone and plan for them to be gone when you get there.

I had a skier yell at me a while ago that I need to 'stay in my lane'. I think most people assume the rules of driving a car apply, as long as they aren't at fault. ;)

[softbootsurfer]

as Mario and many others have pointed out, this whole, "your doing something wrong premise", is of course incorrect...

 

No Matter if it is a skier or boarder...when you are passing from the above position You need to accept responsibility for what is going on Below you...yesterday as an example, because it was sunday and a lot of children were out, I literally stopped a couple times to avoid them.

No I am not Special for doing that, I simply did not think it was safe to continue...

I am sure the 37 year Local that ran over me and screamed, "You Snowboarders have no right to go down the hill that way", and "You need to look uphill for people who want to pass you" just doesn't get it.

 

In fact, this same person the very next day, Straighlined down a run and nearly hit a little girl as he screamed at her to get out of the way...

I know this because her father came up to me, after I confronted the guy, to go with me to the Ski Patrol, from hitting me the day before. Of course he was ready to kill this guy for terrorizing his little girl, but instead I asked him to please report the incident to the Patrol which he did.

the Patrol has talked with him, but I understand now what his and others like him are thinking...He Was the Victim, and He Will always be a Victim..and will never except responsibility for the Victims he creates along the way...

[Neil Gendzwill]

It's all well and good to quote the code and blame the uphill skier but we are the ones turning in an unusual way. Most skiers have no clue how fast we change direction and how quickly we come across the hill. They can and will make the wrong call trying to pass so we had better look out for our own safety. As my Dad is fond of saying about driving, insist on your right of way and you may end up being dead right.

[kieran]

has anyone tried 'indicating' with the lead hand? although i see it less these days, a lot of skiers still make a pole plant before they change direction.

an obvious change in body posture or shape should be enough warning.. for anyone paying attention.

[D.T.]

He Was the Victim, and He Will always be a Victim..and will never except responsibility for the Victims he creates along the way...

 

 

Your comment sounds like a direct quote from Atlas Shrugged.

[b0ardski]

"It's all well and good to quote the code and blame the uphill skier but we are the ones turning in an unusual way. Most skiers have no clue how fast we change direction and how quickly we come across the hill. They can and will make the wrong call trying to pass so we had better look out for our own safety."

 

well said Neil,

I've been nearly taken out by an extremely skilled skier maching down the(narrow tree lined) trail because he was generally traveling perpendicular to my general direction of travel ie. ski down the falline/board across the falline.

both traveling at high speed, he wasn't there when I looked up the hill at the last transition and I was on the opposite side of the run when he 1st saw me and made the decision to pass me on the far side of the run , my direction of travel would have sent us both into the trees if we collided instead of the close call that it was.

not his fault, not my fault

 

"has anyone tried 'indicating' with the lead hand? although i see it less these days, a lot of skiers still make a pole plant before they change direction.

an obvious change in body posture or shape should be enough warning.. for anyone paying attention."

 

I do this all the time when I know traffic is behind me because I know they don't realize that I'm about to cross the whole run at 25mph. I use poles, so it should be obvious when I point it in my intended direction of travel

preventing/mitigating the issue (stopping at the side awaiting a traffic window?) is a must

Edited March 2, 2015 by b0ardski

[lordmetroland]

Your comment sounds like a direct quote from Atlas Shrugged.

 

...or a direct quote from a reviewer of Atlas Shrugged. I'm all for the Responsibility Code but it's not as if swearing to it is a requirement for receiving a lift ticket. The reality is that the average user of this site is WAY more safety conscious (at least within the bounds of a ski area) than the average person who's willing to plunk down $X for the privilege of running into you. I suspect nearly all of us wear helmets, know The Code, look uphill at merges, etc. When it comes to straightliners plowing into people, there is a world of difference between being responsible for something and taking responsibility for something. And there's probably a huge pile of ugly psychology behind the reactions to people who are responsible for causing a crash on the hill (e.g., embarrassment, defensiveness, territoriality, fear of lawsuits, etc.). Even if they know The Code, they probably won't cop to being responsible. By the way, I was clipped by a teenage kid this weekend. We were probably the only two people in the surrounding square acre. I had just dropped into a small ravine and he saw me the whole way. Couldn't have been more baffling.

[softbootsurfer]

I don't pretend to know what is going on where you Ride...But Here in Aspen, where I Skied for years first and have ridden for 30 years, there are people of all abilities mixing it up on all 4 hills...many skiers zig zag, stop, crash, slam on the brakes in the middle of a run, whatever and All the Snowboarders of different abilities are mixed in as well. The Only thing that dictates safety procedures on the Mtn. is the Skiers Code...Mix in the Ski School element Snaking its way down a run from Side to Side, Just like we ride and the problem is not us, but rather people who think going straight and fast and that those below them need to get out of the way, somehow indicates your expertise...The Downhill Skier has the Right of Way...because neither Skiers or Boarders have Eyes in the back of their head, it matters naught what you do Below them, it is none of their business...Their Business is to avoid obstacles and or people using equipment below them...End of Conversation...this is not a debatable subject, it is what is necessary to allow everyone to enjoy themselves and feel safe on the Mtn.

Because there are those that ignore the Rule and Slam into someone is the Problem, not what your doing on the hill

Let me Put it this Way...If You Hit someone who is below You on a Run...You have Screwed Up

[nigelc]

I was filming my wife skiing so that she could look at her technique. We were off piste having traversed a couple of km's from the lift to be away from people. She was skiing down a large open bowl probably 600m wide and about 1km vertically. The only other person in the whole slope was a snowboarder. I was kneeling in the snow at the bottom carefully following my wife on full zoom. The snowboarder is clearly out of control and should be on a beginner run, not off piste and away from the patrol. during the course of the run he misses Joanna several times by a whisker, despite her trying to avoid him. Eventually he becomes so out of control that he overtakes her and he then, unintentionally it seems, straight lines at ever increasing speed straight into me!. I could see him coming so he got the full impact of my right shoulder backed by 100kg's of lard when he hit. There is literally nothing else to hit in 1000m! It was like magnetic attraction. Of course its all on film, complete with me saying to him " you are an idiot" I suggested he should go back to the main runs. He couldn't understand why I would think that would be necessary.

 

 

That same year I was going down the easy beginner slope in order to get to  a steeper more interesting run away from the crowds. This particular run has a fence on the right and I was cruising next to the fence overtaking all the bunnies on the main run. I was just overtaking a little girl when she abruptly turned right and I collided with her. I managed to slow down enough so that I was only doing 5kph or so but I still hit her and took her out. I had not seen a 1m wide gap in the fence on the right which she was going to go through. Of course I was horrified and I picked her up and helped her on with the skis while apologising profusely. Her mother was less than impressed and made many comments about snowboarders. Luckily the little girl was unhurt and quite unaffected.

 

The difference is that I knew I was in the wrong and apologised and stayed around to make sure she was allright.  What I cant understand is the attitude that gets shown by most colliders. Even when I know I am in the right and some idiot has hit me the first question is "are you ok?" Being hit by a careless moron is bad enough, but then getting abused by them afterwards is enough to  start the red mist.......

 

[That Guy...]

I got called out for passing on the right today. 

 

In the grocery store.  

 

No, really.  I was walking out to my car afterwards and this thread came to mind.

 

Some gentleman was ahead of me and walking very slowly down the middle of the aisle while looking at his list, so I went around his right as that was the side where what I wanted was at.  As I passed him, he slowly turned the cart to the right and bumped me.  I gently put my hand out to block his cart, turned my head to say excuse me and kept walking, and then heard him tsk and admonish, "passing on the right..."  I stopped and turned around to ask if he was serious, and he just looked at me and nodded.  I said, "you know, it's people like you that screw up the highways by parking in the left lane.  Stay right or go faster if you don't want to be passed on the right.  If you can't handle that, take the bus.  And seriously?  We're in a freakin' grocery store, so toss off."  He became a bit indignant, so I just kept going on about my business and let him bask in the glory that is my wisdom and knowledge.  

 

In retrospect, I should have used my command voice and barked, "PASSING ON YOUR RIGHT!" as I came up on him.

 

Speaking of which... when you do pass someone, do you try to go to their left or right?  I ride regular, so I try to keep people I pass on my right so that I can keep an eye on them and also so that I can grab on to them or push them away if they do something stupid.  On the narrower catwalks, I do command passing on their right or left, and will always look at them and wave and say thank you as I pass.  Where I deviate from the code is when there's a small child or hunched over senior.  I don't care if they see me and are waving me past... they will always have the right of way in my mind and I slow waaaaay down when I pass them.  That's my biggest fear- taking out a kid or a senior.  Thankfully, Powder Mountain never really gets overly crowded.

Edited March 2, 2015 by That Guy...

[philw]

A bit like dictionaries or HTML standards, I think that some people may have the wrong idea about things like the "responsibility code".

 

It doesn't define perfect or safe riding. You could ride according to those "rules" and still be a complete menace to other people. Many of the "rules" are contradictory. They're not even "the law", which is considerably longer and needs judges and juries to apply it. I think a certain amount of skill and judgement is also required in order to safe.

 

I ride fall-line sometimes, and across the slope other times:

• If you turn unexpectedly in front of me then I'll have to avoid you. I could think "wait up, does this person have the 'right; to do that, and then crash into you or not depending on what the 'rules' say is 'right'.
  How do I tell if you just started off (in which case I can mow you down), or if you're doing a long slow carve (in which case I can't). It's just irrelevant.
   
• If I turn unexpectedly in front of you, or if you're just not great, then you'll crash into me. I could wave these boy scout rules at you from my hospital bed, but I reckon it's actually easier to look where I'm going.

It's the same as driving a car. You could drive as if all the other drivers obeyed all the rules all the time. I think I did that when I was 17. Now I know better, and I'm much safer for it. My mum would be pleased I finally grew up, in some respects at least.

 

So I guess that puts me in the "it's my safety, I'll look after it thanks, but good luck with that rule book" camp.

[softbootsurfer]

IMHO Phil, it does exactly Define what is required to Ski or Snowboard safely...at least on inbound resort slopes. This thread concerns primarily Rule #2 about avoiding Obstacles and or People Below you... and as stated when Obstacles or People are downhill from you...you are to avoid them which is what is happening 99% of the time...Collisions occur when people skiing or boarding down, try to guess where somebody downhill from them is going to be in the future and guess wrong...this is so simple, why try to turn it into something else or say you are safe using Phils rules because the real rules are confusing or arbitrary...?

 

Here is the Safety code or Responsibility  code...I don't find this confusing or arbitrary at all ?

 

Edited March 3, 2015 by softbootsailer