WSJ article on lack of funding for US Alpine / Russia's gain

[TLN]

I've sold my NAS recently, and all my photo archive laying on a couple of drives next to me, but I've found that I've already posted couple of pics in the net before.

This is how lack of funding looks like:

[Corey]

How did you get photos of Fin's TD4 prototype?!?

Seriously though; was that person actually riding those?

[snowmatic]

Hi, can you imagine how sweet is this:

Walking to the letterbox on an icy early morning, taking out newspaper and:

Bang!

Alpine snowboarders fills the frontpage by a over a third of the newspaper.

First pages of sports: 2 full sheets with alpine snowboarding relatet stuff only.

Why U.S. Ski and Snowboard Association abandoned alpine snowboard racing?

There is a big change in progress. Snowboarding, as discused [thread=41567]here[/thread], declines in the West. Sales figures are boken in dramatic. Freeskiing is the future. US men dominate and won all medals of ski-slopestyle (Joss Christensen/Gus Kenworthy/Nicholas Goepper) and won ski halfpipe (Davis Wise) too.

For sure Vic Wild winning for Russia Olympic gold medal is like a Sputnik shock of the fithies of last century.

In fact country of eastern Europe reveal snowboarding in the last Years. So we can see now riders from Russia (Halfpipe/PGS), or Czech republic (woman's SBX) taking Olympic gold. There have been many truckloads of used boards moved from Western Europe to Eastern Europe during the last decade. Even they take all the older and out of order chairlifts and T-bar lifts to the mountains of Eastern Europe for cheap. While snowboard market in Western Europe established now as low like on the early nineties, in Eastern Europe we have a boom, they come just 20 Years later, thats it.

And about "Russia's gain": we will see after the Olympics what will happen.

You know, it's just Lenin-Stalin-Putin. As discused above, politics and sport are irrevocably intertwined and Olympic games are a very high priority showcase for some men.

How imported it is, you saw in our case: how many used Nortwave .950 hardboots have been sold at a very high price to Russia buyers the last couple of Years. I think nearly all of them, money doesn't matter, it's just for the Olympic games.

I don't think in Russia anyone will plow after the Olympics anymore millions of funding into hardbooters training programs, we will see.

Ahm beside, You saw the guy winnig Olympic silver medal was riding a Bomber BTS on his Deeluxe Track 700 hardboots.

In about 14 hours we will see what happens on PSL qualification runs. There is a new chance for any rider.

[Michelle]

I also saw Ligety do that carve move! And then he fell because they don't know how to handle carves....

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[Grand Junction Carver]

Also saw Sage Kotsenburg make some nice carves at the end of his gold medal slopestyle runs. The announcers were commenting on how nice the carves were. Congrats to Vic Wild!

[leeho730]

"Ask not only what you can do for your country--ask what your country can do for you"

But Korea? No way, the country's lost Victor An to Russia because the association pissed him off. Korea's worse than USSA!

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[snowmatic]

Korea? Korea will be just an other story!

Many good riders will retire now from stadium after that Sochi Putin 22.Olympic games.

There will be a change, probably a big change the next Years. FIS is still waiting for sponsors, winners-fee are less now then ever before. Races on basic level, open for everyone, runs now at one category only here in Europe. Because of missing racers, we can no more find different categories like one for children, the Youth and the men.

One to two dozends of upcomming riders on the base are too less for to have later good riders on high level snowboarding races.

So there is still a massiv decreasing comming out from classic wintersport nations, which help to decrease general riding skill on worldcup races too.

Isn't that right? Take attention again to [thread=41567]this tread here[/thread] and the things here "WSJ article on lack of funding for US Alpine" on thread which was opened by FTA2R.

The United States represents the largest ski market on the World (snowboarding included). That means 20-time bigger than Russian ski market. But the USA isn't capable to found a good team on wintersports like alpine snowboarding. Instead of that, USA take only one single man, no woman, for Alpine snowboarding to the Sochi Olympic games. Justin Reiter must felt like a lost Apache Indian on a horse at New-York downtown rushhour.

Edited February 25, 2014 by snowmatic

[jburrill]

Now is the time to organize some sort of online movement to force Luke Bodenstiener of the USSA to actually do something and save face. His quote on this makes him seem the elitist dick that he is. The USSA has ALOT of money to throw around. No doubt its time for some changes. Down with USSA!

[theboarderdude]

Down with FIS and USSA! anybody wish to start a petition?

[bigwavedave]

The logical argument to put forth is for division of snowboarding into 2 disciplines, just like skiing does. It's really different skill sets that few, if any, cross between to compete at the top level:

1. Alpine (boarderX, PGS/PSL)

2. Freestyle (slopestyle, halfpipe).

Skiing has 5 separate disciplines:

1. alpine (downhill, super G, GS & SL)

2. freestyle (moguls, aerials, and now pipe, slopestyle & cross)

3. x-country (classic, skate, biathlon)

4. ski jumping

5. nordic combined

There are separate quotas for each. With all snowboarding lumped altogether, USSA can distribute the quota favoring freestyle.

I think the IOC (international olympic committee) and maybe FIS defines the catagories.

Edited February 26, 2014 by bigwavedave

[Mister Sandman]

another article about Reiter

http://www.denverpost.com/olympics/ci_25204098/usa-snowboarder-justin-reiter-disqualified-mens-parallel-slalom

[piusthedrcarve]

another article about Reiter

http://www.denverpost.com/olympics/ci_25204098/usa-snowboarder-justin-reiter-disqualified-mens-parallel-slalom

The last sentence of the article is so true.

"As all these snowboarders get older and they don't want to ride jumps, they don't want to ride rails any more, they'll come back to carving. It's exactly like riding pow. But pow days only happen once every whenever. We do that pretty much every day. That's a very special thing."

[Jack M]

It is all very sad. I always thought that the Olympics was the place to showcase mainstream sports right alongside non-mainstream, fringe, and off-the-wall sports like Bobsled, Ski Jumping, Speed Skating, Luge, etc, for their athletic merit. To give them a chance to come out of the woodwork and enjoy the limelight once every four years. I would have thought Alpine Snowboarding to be tailor made for this. Now that we have a ridiculous drinking game otherwise known as Curling stealing hours of primetime TV air while Alpine Snowboarding is relegated to late night and early morning phoned-in broadcasts, I don't know what to think anymore. Maybe we are all just big dorks and we don't even know it. Clearly nobody in this country is interested.:(

Major congratulations to Vic Wild. Double gold! So much vindication all around.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Jack Michaud

[lowrider]

Lets re-establish ourselves as an exclusive club and only sell boots, bindings and boards to registered participants no more public sales. Invite litigation from minorities, youth, and women. Exclude as many as possible especially ethnic minorities. Then sit back and see if anyone notices. Wouldn't hurt to have sport announcers that knew something about the sport. (tongue in cheek, not meant to offend, don't send hate mail)

[snowmatic]

Down with FIS and USSA

and IOC!

Maybe You are right.

Like on the 2010 Olympics in Canada, Sochi 2014 was one more big desaster again for snowboarders. Rain in Vancouver, rain and tricky slow-speed and slushy slopes in Russia too. Same on PAR Worldcup 2013/2014 also.

Yes there is FIS. And FIS is the dictatorship over Olmpic snowboarders like them on Alpine boards and slopestile and halfpipe and snowboardcross too. They have the power to assign the snowboarders where they have to ride.

But FIS and IOC don't realy know what snowboarding is. They are never able to know it. They will never be able to know it.

Snowboarders like to ride on powdersnow very much and not all the time in slush. Why not shift all activities to the top of Rosa Khutor Ski Resort, just 3000ft higher and anything was been allright. Even on halfpipe-show 3'800ft, did you saw how many rider crashed in the flat because of tricky slushy conditions. Hey, these guys and girls are not bloody snowboarding beginners, they are the World very best Pro's!

On the Alp's all the good halfpipes and Superpipes are on 7'500ft, on 11'000ft and sometimes higher. There can be found slush for sure. But then it's mid of April, maybe June and not mid of February! So snow will have a perfect hard consistence and for the shape it doesn't matter if wall is on the sunny side or not. There are not tons of salt on slope/flat, just for to keep snow harder. The guys and girls want to pump up speed without any full auto speed-checks from salty snow.

Again, why snowboarding was overtaken by FIS. Luge and Bob sports are independet, even Biathlon which use skis too. They have an independent, ready to their sports, federation. Biathlon isn't FIS! Why Snowboarding?

And FIS is proceeding ahead: Like on Sochy Olympics, FIS will hold next World-Championships joining Freeskiing and Snowboarding on the same city, on same halfpipe and BoarderX and Slopestyle course.

What do You think, what kind of snow we will find then from 3'250ft down to 2'850ft? Powdersnow or slushy man-made snow every where?

As dicused here, we have lack of funding, I mean lack of funding not only for Alpine snowboarding, but lack of funding of snowboarding in general. Say me is it normal, if snowboarders winning Olympic bronze medals had to end their career in springtime, because of lack of funding and missing sponsors?

Why riders, like two time Olympic Gold and Silver medalist Schoch Bros. had to work on construction area all the summertime the last Years. After 5 full days a week on a digger, they had to switch to the Gym every evening.

Even on that downsized wintersport like snowboarding and alpine snowboarding we can see some very courious rider founding systems in some countrys.

Take a look to the women PSL Podium.

On PSL podium from Sochy Olympics we can find a female soldier on top and two police women with silver and bronce medal beside. As usual in Austria and Germany, we will find a lot of riders (men too), which are non working "officials". Like full Sochi PSL women podium, they are sponsored and carried 100% by Uncle Sam.

Just ask now some 13 Years young teenagers how cool it is, to see soldier and police volks on top of his dream sport!

Justin Reiter should maybe switch from the back of his Tundra to become a National Park Ranger, sponsored by Uncle Sam too.

[khoward]

I agree with you about the Curling; however, in our area many more people cared about the Curling results than all the other events combined. The scores were even reported on the local news.

It is all very sad. I always thought that the Olympics was the place to showcase mainstream sports right alongside non-mainstream, fringe, and off-the-wall sports like Bobsled, Ski Jumping, Speed Skating, Luge, etc, for their athletic merit. To give them a chance to come out of the woodwork and enjoy the limelight once every four years. I would have thought Alpine Snowboarding to be tailor made for this. Now that we have a ridiculous drinking game otherwise known as Curling stealing hours of primetime TV air while Alpine Snowboarding is relegated to late night and early morning phoned-in broadcasts, I don't know what to think anymore. Maybe we are all just big dorks and we don't even know it. Clearly nobody in this country is interested.:(

Major congratulations to Vic Wild. Double gold! So much vindication all around.

[Keyser Soze]

I agree with you about the Curling; however, in our area many more people cared about the Curling results than all the other events combined. The scores were even reported on the local news.

This is a very important point. I never have any desire to watch curling, but my office was abuzz with chatter about how the men and women's teams were doing. It is Canada, after all.

All this talk about the FIS and USSA not understanding our sport is entirely accurate, but then again, who exactly outside of our pint-sized community really understands our obsession? I get compliments all the time about my board and my riding, so I recommend Bomber to those who want to give it a shot, but I feel like every season I see fewer riders on plates, not more.

[scrutton]

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/02/russian-government-gave-new-mercedes-to-each-olympic-medalist/

Vic Wild's getting a new Mercedes now also.

[b0ardski]

here's a scathing article, a must read

http://www.epic-mag.com/the-ussa-travesty/

here's an exerpt;

The situation got even worse a few years later when Bill Marolt, the President/CEO of USSA, made the decision to completely defund the team. This was a travesty. This meant that the US was effectively giving up its snowboard racing athletes, betraying some of the riders who made snowboarding what it is today. Believe it or not, racing used to be the most popular snowboard event and it played a big part in convincing the public (not to mention the ski industry) that snowboarding was indeed a real sport. Riders like Ian Price, Jeff Greenwood, Pete Thorndike, Tyler Jewel, Rosey Fletcher, and Chris Klug, riders who dedicated their lives to the sport, and to USSA, were suddenly abandoned.

As support for this disastrous policy Bill Marolt said that snowboard racing wasn’t popular enough to support a team. To that I must call bull****. It’s true that snowboard racing isn’t popular in mainstream America, but ski racing isn’t either. Neither are the traditional freestyle skiing events moguls and aerials. As for ski jumping, there are only 5 ski jumping hills in the United States! And you certainly can’t tell me that cross-country racing is popular; beyond the obvious, my sister was a high level competitor in that sport and I grew up with 2014 Olympians Simi Hamilton and Noah Hoffman, and I can promise you there are NO spectators at those events other than friends, family, and coaches. Many US winter sport athletes face adversity of some sort in making their way to the top of their sport. I know that both Simi and Noah ran into some funding issues of their own over the last year or two, but they always had a team to travel with, a coach, wax techs, and most of all their team actually existed. Only snowboard racers have had to consistently face roadblocks put in their way by their own organization.

I question the truth of Bill Marolt’s claims that lack of popularity is the reason for withdrawing support for snowboard racing. I mentioned cross-country and ski jumping as examples of less popular sports that still enjoy funding but consider sports like luge, bobsled, and skeleton.* While not under the control of USSA, they are examples of sports that have very low popularity, have VERY few participants, and never face the risk of losing the support of their governing body. Which brings us to the other argument: funding.

In response to questions about defunding the race team, Luke Bodensteiner’s Executive Vice President for athletics at USSA, has said, “Our organization continues to provide support to elite athletes across all sports and is proud that 17 different American skiers and snowboarders have medaled here.” This is technically true but completely avoids the question about the lack of funding for competitive alpine snowboard team. It’s not like they don’t have the money.

USSA wants people to believe that the funding cut from snowboard racing was due to serious financial issues, but that clearly isn’t true. Bill Marolt is looking to expand the US snowboard team, just not with racers. An article published during the Olympics this year contained the following

”We’re working on some things,” Bill Marolt, the president and CEO of USSA, told The Associated Press. “There’s definitely a possibility some new events could be added.” He would not get into specifics, but there have been conversations in international circles about two events: a team snowboardcross race and Big Air. (

http://www.nbcolympics.com/news/ussa-wants-add-new-snowboarding-and-freestyle-skiing-events-olympics

.)

How are we to believe that USSA can’t afford a race team but they can add athletes who compete in the Big Air and in Team Boardercross? The simple fact is that, while there is some crossover between Slopestyle, Half Pipe, and Big Air, there will be instances where athletes in each event will have high FIS points in one event and not the other two, which means that in order to have the best athletes in each event on our team, USSA will be forced to add more spots to the team. Team Boardercross? That means that there will have to be a deeper field, which again, translates to needing more spots on the team, spots that have been denied to our racers.

Thedo Remmelink, the head racing coach and the Steamboat Springs Winter Sports Club (SSWSC) has provided a more rational view on the issue of funding a US racing team

USSA’s alpine snowboarding budget was $135,000 in 2012. But that number is well below the level expected of an elite program. The organization spent more than $24.1 million in 2012, according to its latest annual budget report. Were USSA to have dedicated, say, $500,000 – about 2 percent of what it devotes to all of its teams to the snowboard racing team – it would have had all the standards of a top program: board technicians, equipment testing, physiotherapists, technical coaches, video workers and a well-stocked team. Funding a high-level team – not just the equipment but lodging, food and event travel – costs between $80,000 and $90,000 per rider annually.

Make it $1 million, or 4%, and you could have 10 world-class American snowboard racers vying to bring home medals to the US.

As an illustration of the inequality facing snowboarders at USSA in general and racers in particular, I want to address team size. I was only able to find data on the size of an entire team for US alpine skiing (that information wasn’t posted for the other teams). The five tiers of that team add up to 54 athletes. Since I didn’t have a way to compare that to the other teams I went of off the size of each discipline’s Olympic team.

Alpine skiing had a total of 22 spots with a max of 14 per gender.

Freestyle skiing had a total of 26 spots with a max of 14 per gender.

Nordic Combined had a total of 5 spots, men only.

Ski jumping had 9 spots with a max of 5 men and 4 women.

Cross-country had 20 spots with a max of 12 per gender.

Snowboarding (remember that’s Slopestyle, Halfpipe, Boardercross, Slalom, and Giant Slalom) had 24 spots. Of those 24, 1 went to a racer.

(

http://ussa.org/global/olympic-team-selection-criteria-2014

).

That’s 82 ski spots to 24 snowboard spots. If you want to narrow it to just freestyle and race skiing compared to snowboarding that’s 48 to 24.

[theboarderdude]

I had a thought today... talk about lack of popularity. How many people bobsled? and the U.S. can afford to send what, twelve bobsleds(3 each of m/w, two-man and four-man) to sochi, yet only one alpine snowboarder? oh please. I want to know how much it costs to ship 12 several hundred pound bobsleds to however many world cup stops they had this year, plus coaches, doctors, techs, trainers, whatever. I can just about guarantee you that it cost more than a world-class level alpine team would.

[NMU Alpine Boarder]

I had a thought today... talk about lack of popularity. How many people bobsled? and the U.S. can afford to send what, twelve bobsleds(3 each of m/w, two-man and four-man) to sochi, yet only one alpine snowboarder? oh please. I want to know how much it costs to ship 12 several hundred pound bobsleds to however many world cup stops they had this year, plus coaches, doctors, techs, trainers, whatever. I can just about guarantee you that it cost more than a world-class level alpine team would.

The problem with that example is that BMW and other sponsors are willing to pick up some of the tab for USA Bobsled/Luge/Skeleton during Olympic years... And that is how they get over there... It's not like the BMW money goes to only bobsled, but not luge athletes... It's not a fair comparison...

[snowmatic]

Was it lack of funding for US Alpine riders only, or was there even something more around for boosting medal prospects at Sochi home Olympics?

Just an other sight of view, read this: Russia faced explosive allegations of corruption and systematic doping

Russia was leader of overall medal-table on Sochi Olympic winter games (13 gold / 11 silver / 9 bronze medals)

We take now a look to Vic Wild's Fis-Ski Biographie:

2009/2010 season (USA): 10 Worldcup races, reaching 5 finals, best ranking was 8.

2010/2011 season (USA): 12 Worldcup races, reaching 3 finals, best ranking was 6.

2011/2012 no races

2012/2013 season (Russia): 10 Worldcup races, reaching 5 finals, best ranking was 3.

2013/2014 season (Russia): 8 Worldcup/Olympics races, reaching 6 finals, 3 victorys including double gold winner Sochi Olympics

We will never know how he did it!

and for to compare:

His Russian wife Olympic bronze medalist Zavarzina Alena:

2010/2011 season: 7 Worldcup races reaching 5 finals, best ranking was 1.

2011/2012 season: 10 Worldcup races reaching 3 finals, best ranking was 8.

2012/2013 season: 10 Worldcup races reaching 7 finals, best ranking was 4.

2013/2014 season: 8 Worldcup/Olympics races, reaching 2 finals just only the ones on Olympic games, winning bronze medal at Sochi Olympics

Isn't that amazing?

• Discus throw gold medalist Jewgenia Pescherina said, 99 % of all athlets did it, You can get everything You need.

• Wladimir Putins law from 2010: foreign doping hunters have to report every transportations of any probes. Customhouse is allowed to open all the probes when leaving Russia.

[BlueB]

Isn't that amazing?

What is really amazing is that now that there is a political quarrel with Russia, the allegations start to fly.

On the other hand, it is actually the US athletes that have pretty bad record for doping...

[snowmatic]

@BlueB

It's not based on political quarrel with Russia. Investigation on that theme starts many months before Sochi Olympics.

There is a 1 hour TV-report about. You can watch it here (youtube: K2oKRwxyBBA )

If there is country restriction use: www.german-proxy.de

It's German spoking, containing some English interviews. Vic Wild can be watched at 54' 43"

The TV-report shows some very strange things how athlets use doping, how it was hide by all stages and how money goes, even up to the headquarter of IFFA.

I mean, it's just as easy like you order a pizza, nothing else!

We can say nothing about Vic Wild. Even it was highly suspicous how he showed unlimited power and leg-force up to the last final run, while others and very experienced good riders failed. If you did watch all the runs of PSL and PGS from qualifications up to all final runs that time on TV, it was realy shocking!

[BlueB]

We can say nothing about Vic Wild.

Yeah, we can say nothing about him, then you proceed to trash him and throw suspicions in the very next sentence? Classy.

Give the guy the credit he deserves. What so miraculous? He went from being practically unfunded and no team, working part time to support himself, to being fully funded, focusing only on training for couple of years, having coaches, physios, technicians. Where US let him (and the entire alpine snowboarding) down, Russia seized the opportunity and gave him what he needed, along with the citizenship.

It is not unusual for the host country to sweep the golds. Local knowledge, training at the actual venues, and the hype and excitement combined with national pride on the line, have huge impact. Canada did it too, after all. Are you going to accuse us of cheating, too?