John E Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 I attended SES shortly after Aspen had some near-record snow dumps. I found that I fell into the carver herd mentality of trying to figure out what was the best board for the soft groom conditions. At least for the 1st half of the session, very few carvers thought they were on the best board for the conditions. Most complained that the groom was too soft. I got caught up in this mentality as well. On Wednesday, I grabbed my soft boots & soft boot board & headed to Highland Bowl above Aspen Highlands. We got there shortly after it opened and it was truly epic. The bowl is huge & it was virtually untracked down the line we took. After this run it hit me - Why did I take up carving? To be able to have fun when the snow was old. Why look for groom when the soft snow conditions were so great? Carving is fun when there is no fresh snow. However, when there is fresh snow, why seek out the groom? It's like going to a cafeteria, walking past the filet mignon & filling up on meat loaf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Fair enough. Keep in mind I love deep fresh snow as well as the next guy, probably more then most. Why ? Because it is a carving event? It wasn't a "Heli Vacation" it wasn't a "Powder 8s" competition. Bomber is a specific group of alpine snowboarders who are passionate about gear that works best on caulky hard pack. Allot of riders seldom see fresh snow, may not even own a soft boot set up or powder board. I am sure that many did bring pow boards or made arrangements to enjoy the freshies. Those that travel there have a noted disadvantage over those that live near by or travel by car. They are not "Crazy" , perhaps obsessed , they are avid snowboarders that have spent considerably more time , money and effort to arrive at this carving event then those that live nearby. I am guessing many did take full advantage of the new snow and sharing it with like minded alpine friends. Bryan Edited February 13, 2014 by www.oldsnowboards.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) good points Bryan, but I am crazy(I snowboard with poles after all) and agree that there's way more to life than groomers, on a good season at least. Too much soft snow to carve? oh darn When I demoed the proteus it did really well in 6-8 inches even though wider than 19cm would've been a bit better. laying out carves on steep winch cat groom and flying off the piste to slash pow or snake the trees is my favorite thing to do. When the day gives you both, don't walk past the filet but at least taste the meatloaf, it might be pretty good. The gatherings are all about trenches but when life gives you powder it should go in your face:eplus2:. Finding a board that carves like a demon and still rips the pow is the ultimate for me. Edited February 13, 2014 by b0ardski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 So given that you admit this: I've been out for what constitutes the bare minimum of a pow day once in my life. What possible reference do you have for this statement? in my books floating around on powder versus ripping a fast turn on hardpack is akin to taking a bubble bath with scented candles lit while listening to Sade rather than going white water rafting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 taking a bubble bath with scented candles lit while listening to Sadeyour mancard and associated privileges have been revoked. you need to accrue at least 8 hours of viewing FPS Russia before you can apply for a replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teach Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 It's like going to a cafeteria, walking past the filet mignon & filling up on meat loaf. mmmmm, meat loaf.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser Soze Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 your mancard and associated privileges have been revoked. you need to accrue at least 8 hours of viewing FPS Russia before you can apply for a replacement. Wow, my bad. I own Diamond Life? Yeesh, I'll delete it so not to upset anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 On any other day, yes, get out the soft gear. At a carving session, we are there to carve with fellow carvers, and we will try to do so until it's impossible. You're wrong about the meatloaf though. On a bluebird no-ice corduroy day, it's filet with a lobster tail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogokoenig Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 After this run it hit me - Why did I take up carving? To be able to have fun when the snow was old. Why look for groom when the soft snow conditions were so great?Carving is fun when there is no fresh snow. However, when there is fresh snow, why seek out the groom? It's like going to a cafeteria, walking past the filet mignon & filling up on meat loaf. Totally agree! Carving is nothing but the best subsititute for powder! No friends on Powder days. Whereas in the meantime i prefer powder on hardboots. It is like cutting the filet mignon with a japanese chef knife. It makes life much easier. You start the day on fresh powder and after the powder is tracked and rutted up you can just switch to the slopes without changing gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E Posted February 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Though I came to carving from softbooting, I am more and more seeing the advantages of hard boots. The interface between the boot & board is so much more elegant. However, in powder, there still seems to be a better feel for the natural flex of the board with soft boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Strange to consider one from the other...really nothing but a lot of Pure Joy out there :) I have many days here with both... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogokoenig Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I'd consider powder in Colorado a luxury problem. Not sure, if I could cope with it more than once a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I am a crazy obsessed carver. :) I gave my freestyle board to a friend. I don't miss it, though deep powder is not something I ever encounter at home unless I'm willing to use a tow rope behind a snowmobile. (It's been 20 years since I last did that!) If I rode powder more often, I'd probably buy a freestyle setup again. It's still fun riding hardboots in soft snow, but a different kind of fun. Steve R. and I went in the junior halfpipe at Snowmass on the Saturday after SES. The 8-year-old girls there thought our equipment was cool/weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 However, in powder, there still seems to be a better feel for the natural flex of the board with soft boots. For me, soft boots feel better on many levels in powder. What you said, and the fact that once it gets tracked and bumpy, I have an easier time soaking all that up with a setup that allows me to ride better out-of-position, since the tracks and bumps are going to put me out of position whether I like it or not. If powder days consisted of fresh tracks all day I'd be as happy in hard boots as soft... but since that is never the case, I ride my pow in softies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allee Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 If I had to choose the 5 most memorable riding days of my life, they're all pow days. If there's more than a few inches of powder, then the carving boards don't even get a look in. Soft boots and the Rome Anthem all the way. Easier to ride and way less work. Although I do have to say that if there's around 10cm (about 3-4 inches of new) there is nothing better than pow on groom on a carving board. Jam the edge in, and bite into the groom underneath. Unweight, and the board floats on top of the powder for that split second before you roll into the next turn and back into the groom. Absolutely sublime. Especially when it snows hard enough to cover in the tracks and give you free refills. Those were the conditions the day I got second-degree frostbite on my toes, and even three years later, I still count that day as one of my best on the hill - totally worth it. First chair on a pow day, floating down the hill with just that quiet shush-shush and the cold early-morning air, is the best thing ever. All tools for the job, right? You can get the job done with the wrong tool, but the right one makes it a much better experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Didn't some one's signature read "Any cat can make cords but only god can make pow". It's just a natural progression for me on softboot: bunny hill -> Green -> Blue -> Black -> Powder/Tree -> Back country Some might throw in park/jump in the mix. I like to think that I am a decent softboot snowboarder... The older I get; the greater I was :-) I love powder but in the NE: It's far and few in between. On HB: I am still stuck in the Green/Blue mode and probably will be there for a long while. That's part of the reason why I enjoy it. Just a tiny bit of masochism lol. I envy those who can use 1 board/1 setup and go down any trails. I missed those day where all I have is one snowboard and I will follow my skier friends down anything the mountain have to offer. F1 race car on a dirt track is possible but not necessary the best idea. However my goal in snowboarding is any trail/any condition(run what you brought) type of deals. Probably not realistic but I like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E Posted February 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I got a good pow day (really maybe 3 hours) at Vail about 2 weeks ago. Floating down the runs on my soft boots and a Burton Fish. Slow, silent, effortless, beautiful. Slipping down the runs next to the trees. Passing by the trees about a foot away. Dipping into the forest and marveling at the silent, ethereal, transient beauty. A completely different experience than carving. The small pressure wave ahead of the nose of my board would blow the fresh snow up into the air and sparkle. I do enjoy carving but I can get that most every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) yep, most every day. I find no need whatsoever for laces and strap though. 3 buckle raichles w/thermoflex on lib grocer(best pow board ever made) w/ stepin binders absolutely slays 2' of tracked out powder in all day comfort w/out even noticing the 2foot deep trenches while still being plenty surfy in the untracked, for 1' or less the Identity does the same. and the Identity lays out carves like that proverbial demon! Edited February 14, 2014 by b0ardski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) I attended SES shortly after Aspen had some near-record snow dumps. I found that I fell into the carver herd mentality of trying to figure out what was the best board for the soft groom conditions. At least for the 1st half of the session, very few carvers thought they were on the best board for the conditions. Most complained that the groom was too soft. I got caught up in this mentality as well. On Wednesday, I grabbed my soft boots & soft boot board & headed to Highland Bowl above Aspen Highlands. We got there shortly after it opened and it was truly epic. The bowl is huge & it was virtually untracked down the line we took. After this run it hit me - Why did I take up carving? To be able to have fun when the snow was old. Why look for groom when the soft snow conditions were so great? Carving is fun when there is no fresh snow. However, when there is fresh snow, why seek out the groom? It's like going to a cafeteria, walking past the filet mignon & filling up on meat loaf. I think John has done a great job of creating a thread that can give those who are looking for divisiveness a great opportunity to express their positions. I would suggest that before we comment, we re-read and subjectively look at the original text. It has appeared to have shifted from a "Why I started to hardboot" and "Alpine snowboarders whining about soft snow" into "I prefer this over that" and "This is best, not that". I suggest that we can have both and we do not need to create a divide. Me? I believe in the middle of the middle of the middle. With my powder boards, alpine boards and in life in general. Balance. Many of you know that that balance point shifts off center , I only attempt to keep it as close as possible under the current set of circumstances. We as a group seem to have better critical thinking skills than average. This is probably not the best example of it :) Sliding on snow is good, enjoy!! PS. Boardski, yes, it is a given you are crazy In a very nice sort of way! Edited February 15, 2014 by www.oldsnowboards.com Undeleted so I can be seen as "Serious" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RideGuy Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I have not ridden soft boots in 15 years, but I can say with all honesty that soft boots are the better tool for pow and post pow chop. It's still fun on hard boots, but it's just not the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) You're right, it's not the same; cut up pow in softies makes my feet hurt, for me foot pain and less power does not equal a "better tool" YMMV Edited February 14, 2014 by b0ardski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 What really makes me laugh is when people cant realize that its NOT time carve. If its not Carving conditions show some diversity in your riding style and adapt to the conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 What really makes me laugh is when people cant realize that its NOT time carve. If its not Carving conditions show some diversity in your riding style and adapt to the conditions. NO, that just doesn't make sense?? It is always carve time!! I think carving 18" of Cascade Mung on my Tinkler 203cm with a 18cm waist is the way, the only way! (at least if I want to catch up to Jacoby after they just flipped the sign into Lower Heather Canyon) A very season Journeyman Wireman once said (this is just after completing a series of classes on short order repairs for Electricians driving service trucks) "Use what every you have in your pouch to get it done". For several classes he had spent great time and detail going over the proper use of hand tools, safety, proper care, clever alternative uses etc. Use what you got, go have fun. Powder vs Groomers ?? REALLY? (Being a mod doesn't mean I always have to be serious does it?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 (Being a mod doesn't mean I always have to be serious does it?) Yes. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Yep, I used to wear huge framers bags carrying around every tool I could possibly need; til I worked with a Wisconsinite that did most everything wearing only 1 small bag and a hammer loop. Point being ONE boot binding setup for every board/condition and or a couple boards that do it all, stepins on my 174 nidecker and 173 Identity AM both fit in the dakine bag with one pair plastic boots, helmet, poles and an extra layer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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