~tb Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 Got into an interesting conversation with a couple other hardbooters the other day that wanted to open to a larger conversation, based on the question, one could grasp that some people were "bomber people" and others were "catek people." So here is the question: Rank order the adjustments below starting with the one that you would prefer to be most easily adjustable (therefore the one you would adjust most often) all the way down to the one that you would most sacrifice accessibility (likely an adjustment that you make once or twice in a bindings life). Place your rank ordering in the ( ). Don't just answer based on your current binding, think about what adjustments you would actually like to make. ( )stance width ( )binding angle ( )cant ( )lift ( )boot tension (moving a toe/heel block or TD3 bail fine adjustment) ( )boot bias For those of you who also ride softboots, would your order be different on your softboot setup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 Hard boots: (3)stance width (2)binding angle (5)cant (4)lift (1)boot tension (moving a toe/heel block or TD3 bail fine adjustment) (6)boot bias Soft boots: (2)stance width (3)binding angle (5/6)cant (5/6)lift (1)boot tension (in this case, fine-tuning of straps that don't come loose) (4)boot bias But... ergonomics trumps all of the above for me with softies, as evidenced by the fact that I willingly deal with shortcomings in stance width and boot bias adjustment in the name of comfort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 (3)stance width (2)binding angle (4)cant (6)lift (1)boot tension (moving a toe/heel block or TD3 bail fine adjustment) (5)boot bias Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 (1)stance width (1)binding angle (6)cant (4)lift (5)boot tension (moving a toe/heel block or TD3 bail fine adjustment) (1)boot bias there are 3 first equals because i find if i change one of those, i want to change any or both of the other two as well. this is mostly the result of mounting my rear binding using the fuego method, and then picking a front mounting to suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.E Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 (edited) Todd- there may be a little flaw here. The things I want to be the most finely adjustable are not necessarily the things I will change with an frequency. I find lift and cant independence and adjust ability high on my list, but once they are set, I don't feel like I need to mess with them. Likewise bail tension- getting it right is important, but (for me) changing it for different boots is not a big deal. Importance/ frequency of adjustment: (4/1 )stance width (1/2)binding angle (3/3 )cant (2/3 )lift (5/4 )boot tension (moving a toe/heel block or TD3 bail fine adjustment) (6/5 )boot bias I was a Catek man for a long time. I've moved to some softer bindings, but I miss the way Cateks worked. I appreciated not having multiple disks, a random handful of shims, and an equally random assortment of screws. I also appreciated being able to fine tune lift and cant for a particular board, but once set up, never really touched it again. Edited September 29, 2012 by Mr.E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 None of the above. I want more lateral flex out of my boots - binding setup. And after that, binding angle, stance width. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 Having only ridden Hardboots a small number of times...the thing I noticed first is that if I was to use them all the time I would be thankful for all the different adjustments mentioned to maximize the set up and to find the zone of comfort and control they can provide... as for Softboots...I am guilty of using the same set up for over 25 years now, though I have changed the angles front and back from + or - 3 deg. or so from my original setting of both feet at 45 deg. When I step on my board with this set up, I feel right at home. With that consistency through the years and the incredible upgrades made to the boards themselves I am again looking forward to another great season at Milkland... I would think that in Racing mode or wanna be Racing mode that all the adjustments you have mentioned would be in a constant state of flux with both the hill conditions and type of course requiring different set ups...but that is a guess on my part as I have no experience to draw from... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 (1)binding angle (2)stance width (3)cant (4)lift (5)boot tension (moving a toe/heel block or TD3 bail fine adjustment) (6)boot bias The thing I do the most that annoys me to no end with the TD3 bindings is changing the angles when moving a binding to a wider/narrower board. The toe/heel blocks cover the angle adjustment screws with my shorter boots, so I have to remove every single screw except the bail lugs to move them to a new board and change the binding angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 From the standpoint of what I need to make an appreciable difference for other riders: Stance width and angle can be set at least workably indoors. These two are probably the easiest to work around in the short term so long as one is reasonably close. On hill: Cant and lift, in that order for the front foot; and then lift and cant, usually in that order for the rear foot. Particularly for step-in, as business cards don't work so well in that application. While I favor Bomber derivatives for personal use, the Catek OS1 and WC work better for on hill tuning for/with clients. For softboots; the ability to quickly change binding offset, and highback angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 And some people are F2 people. You'll get a different perspective at least. 1 Stuff I set up once based on what works with current board (piste/ powder) designs and my style - stance width - binding angle 2 Set once for a combination of boot/ binding. - lift. - boot tension 3 Stuff I don't want - Cant. My knees are straight, I don't need this. Just more stuff to break. - boot bias. But you missed the most important thing, the only thing I'll ever adjust on the piste or in the field: - set-back. I like simple things which just work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 Never had a desire to fiddle in the field. I run F2s, hardly any adjustment possible, and I'm happy with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 I run F2s, hardly any adjustment possible, and I'm happy with them. Really? F2's are the most adjustable binding out there in terms of stance width, stance angle, boot bias, and boot tension. Agreed, not much choice in terms of cant and lift... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 Really? F2's are the most adjustable binding out there in terms of stance width, stance angle, boot bias, and boot tension. Agreed, not much choice in terms of cant and lift... I assume by bias and tension you mean moving the position of the boot relative to the board edges and adjusting how tightly the binding pressures the sole. If so, yeah I can adjust all that but that is set it and forget it stuff. Seems like it's the cant and lift that most fiddle with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 By analogy, I once had a Japanese car and the seats have every gadget possible and could be adjusted in maybe half a dozen different ways. You could play with them for hours. And they'd still be uncomfortable. Now I have a German car and the seats have only a couple of controls, but they work perfectly. Less is more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 (1) availability (2) all the rest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 (1) availability(1.5) reliability (2) all the rest ftfy. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queequeg Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 I'm with Jack on this one but otherwise: (1)binding angle (2)stance width (3)lift (4)boot bias (5)boot tension (moving a toe/heel block or TD3 bail fine adjustment) (6)cant I think boot bias and boot tension options in the TD bindings could be better, though the Catek's truly suck in this area (IMO). I like the way you adust bias/tension with a screw on the F2's. I don't really cant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Got into an interesting conversation with a couple other hardbooters the other day that wanted to open to a larger conversation, based on the question, one could grasp that some people were "bomber people" and others were "catek people." So here is the question:Rank order the adjustments below starting with the one that you would prefer to be most easily adjustable (therefore the one you would adjust most often) all the way down to the one that you would most sacrifice accessibility (likely an adjustment that you make once or twice in a bindings life). Place your rank ordering in the ( ). Don't just answer based on your current binding, think about what adjustments you would actually like to make. ( )stance width ( )binding angle ( )cant ( )lift ( )boot tension (moving a toe/heel block or TD3 bail fine adjustment) ( )boot bias For those of you who also ride softboots, would your order be different on your softboot setup? Yup I would like all that standard and flex adjustments please...I wanna tune my binding, not just be able to place it were I want it. Maybe some days on a plate maybe some days on board. Oh and aero gels, I wanna just float on a mag aero gel that my mag boot bonds too then can I adjust the gels viscosity with current or some thing while riding, maybe with a goggle mounted retina control.... Plus it should weigh very little. You can do that right?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piusthedrcarve Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 (1)stance width (3)binding angle (6)cant (4)lift (2)boot tension (moving a toe/heel block or TD3 bail fine adjustment) (5)boot bias Additionally, If I can change Weight of the bindings, it would be great experiment, if I am on Plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeho730 Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 (5)stance width (3)binding angle (4)cant (6)lift (1)boot tension (2)boot bias Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaRtharsis Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 All this discussion is well and good BUT I think one basic design characteristic is being overlooked here. If we assess Catek against all other binding designs within the context of a FMEA, which binding has the greatest potential for a single point failure which can result in a very high to severe injury rating? The king pin design of the Catek, while providing infinite adjustability, is a highly stressed interface and single point of contact with the board. I had a binding failure at high speed on steep terrain two seasons ago which did cause injury. The bindings were adjusted and maintained iaw manufacturer instructions but there was no way of identifying the potential shearing of the king pin shoulder. I promptly sold all bindings and parts with full disclosure on what had happened. Adjustability is great, but safety is paramount. Yes I'm a big guy. Yes I ride hard. Yes I like all of my body parts to remain attached, functional and operate within their design limitations. Thats why I switched camps. And lets face it, none of us are getting any younger!! (5)stance width (3)binding angle (4)cant (6)lift (2)boot bias (1)boot tension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.E Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 I've not heard of a Catek kingpin shear- M10's have a huge shear and load strength. Clearly it happened to you, but that is a first for me. Was it the bolt that sheared, or the pivot nut? I rode Cateks for 10 years with no issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaRtharsis Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Spherical nut failed. The shoulder is an abrupt transition between the two planes. Doesn't seem like it is radiused at all. At the time I had posted I had heard of several others. Nothing official of course just rumor. I could have dealt with it and moved on but after several dozen emails and as many calls to the manufacturer without a single response I wasn't about to take another chance. This happened shortly after Jeff had come on the forums to announce that they were still in business and working to make things better for their customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.E Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Interesting. Also sounds like the newer Cateks? My experience was almost exclusively with the WC (the same couple pair for years). Sorry for the injury. Thanks for entertaining the thread drift, Todd. It's not on your list, but making the set up fairly user-proof is also nice. I remember folks setting the cant pins on Cateks before tightening the kingpin and getting it all messed up. Standard fasteners to help prevent rounding would also be nice- how many F2's have rounded out toe and heel slider draw bolts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel45 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 For those of us who also ride skwals . . . ( 1 ) lift ( 2 ) cant ( 3 ) angle ( 4 ) stance width ( 5 ) boot tension ( 6 ) boot bias add, narrower base design Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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