Stance distance - hard boot - free carving - 2024

[SunSurfer]

16 replies with data as of 8 March 2024. More replies please.

All born male.

Heights ranging from 168cm to 195.5cm.

8 wear UPZ, 3 Deeluxe, 2 Mountain Slope, 2 a ski touring boot, 1 Head Stratos Pros.

Across the group,

Leg inseam varies from 42 to 49% of height.

Stances range from 25 to 31% of height.

Stances range from 56 to 68% of inseam.

Splay:
11/16 have 5 degrees of splay or less.

5/16 have 10 degrees of splay or more (max 21 degrees).

Canting: 4 riders report using canting.
3 of these have splay angles greater than 10 degrees and use it on the rear binding.

2 riders use front foot inward canting, 1 of the 3 with splay >10 using rear binding canting.
The other is a stance outlier, 55 degree binding angles with 0 degrees splay, and front foot only inward cant. This isn't to say this is for "wrong" for them, just that this setup pattern is uncommon.

-----------------------------------------------

Recommendations for stance is one of those perennial questions for newbies, and sometimes for more experienced riders. This thread is to gather data about what people actually ride in 2024 for free carving in hardboots

I ask that each post includes

a) sex at birth

b) height (socks or barefoot) cm/inches.

c) inside leg measurement (socks or barefoot, floor to pubic bone) cm/inches.

d) binding centre to binding centre distance for hardboot free carving, cm/inches.

e) binding angles front and rear

f) front toe lift and rear heel lift degrees

g) boots: Deeluxe, Mountain Slope, UPZ, Other - specify

If you ride a different distance for other styles of hardboot riding, please include that data. I'm thinking of things like extreme carving, racing, skwalling, Pureboarding, riding powder etc.

A month on from now I'll crunch the numbers and give a report on the distributions and average ratios.

So to begin.

Male, 182cm tall, 88cm inside leg,

Freecarving 56cm stance, 65 deg front, 60 deg rear, 6 deg front toe and rear heel lift. UPZ

Edited March 8 by SunSurfer
clarity

[wulf]

Male

185cm

90cm inside leg

Stance 52cm centered on the inserts

front 50 deg, rear 45 deg (on 21cm wide F2 Vantage 162)

UPZ boots

Toe & Heel lift F2 standard (no idea what degrees they have)

no canting

 

I am using this recomendation for a "natural stance" - fits perfect for me

Riding this stance since ages 

Edited February 10 by wulf
typo

[pokkis]

180cm

stance 54cm, 1-2cm forward from insert mediumf

front 60deg, rear 55 deg

UPZ with Intec heels, 10cm raise on rear heel

with this stance last 24 years, before that with 44cm

[slabber]

2 hours ago, pokkis said:

 

UPZ with Intec heels, 10cm raise on rear heel

 

Can you confirm heel lift? 10mm?

[pokkis]

Yes, 10mm raiser made by me

I used to ride flat for years, but noticed that it is easier lock Intec on rear with raiser.

Edited February 10 by pokkis

[fluxgame]

a) Male b) 172cm c) 80cm d) 54cm e) 55º/55º f) 4.9º toe lift (3.4º inward cant), 3º heel lift g) UPZ boots

[b0ardski]

I'll let you convert the inches

M 72", 32"inseam

stance width 20" +/-, 30*r/45*f, +/- depending on board width always with 12*-15* splay

3*inward cant , 3*heel/toe lift (sometimes flat front) been using the old Nitro stepins since the nineties.

It aint broke, it works switch, and after decades I got no desire to change anything, no mechanism in the heel to wear out just a pin welded to a metal plate; got 5 pair to last the rest of my life would be 6 but the original pair a toe bail broke out of the cast block on a steep bump run!! but the heel held me in so I could milk it down!

 

 

Edited February 10 by b0ardski

[philw]

a) male
b) height: 178cm
c) inside leg: 76cm
d) binding centre to binding centre distance for hardboot free carving: 49.5cm
e) binding angles front and rear: 45/35
f) front toe lift and rear heel lift degrees: 1/3
g) boots: Aromic Backlands with Phantom Springs

I found that different set ups worked optimally with different boots, which is obvious if you think about boot design differences. I'm not sure if I can go mellower or not, I'll probably try 40/30, but the F2 bindings scale only goes down to 40 degrees, so I'm in no man's land down there. 

Similarly the board also affects what I'd ride, at least in that I do not enjoy riding boards where my toes/ heels are not close to the edge of the board, in hardpack. There's some flexibility with my Hometown hero, but I may try a little mellower if I get bored.

I'm not sure you'll get to a massive conclusion; some folk here ride boards which can only be ridden at very high angles. Some ride old gear, which has very different performance characteristics from newer stuff. 

[Chris C]

a) Male b) 194cm c) 86.5 d) 50cm e) 55/50 f) 3degree front toe/heel lift rear heel g) UPZ

 

 

[Alan]

a) male
b) 192cm
c) 81cm

Alpine Modern:
d) 49cm
e) F60˚ R55˚
f) F2 standard toe/heel lift
g) Deeluxe 425

Alpine Vintage:
d) 44cm
e) F60˚ R50˚
f) TD1 Cants F3˚ R3˚
g) Deeluxe 425

[lafcadio]

I find it interesting that some of what is being asked for I don’t even know. I’d have to measure my leg length and the amount of heel lift I’m using. lol. No time for that right now. Will get back to you. 

[queequeg]

a) m

b) 5’8”

c) 32” ??

d) 21” - centered on reference

e) 66/69

f) 1cm lift on front toe, otherwise flat and as close to the deck as possible, virus powerlocks.

g) boots: UPZ RC-10 walk/ride replaced with permanent springs. lots of forward cuff on rear, none on front, black / medium springs, stiff grey tongues. fintecs.

I’m rather bow-legged, so lots of outward cuff-canting on the boots (none on the bindings).

Sorry about the imperial units—they’re what I’m familiar with.

i have a pow deck that I ride with low angles but my stance is not at all sorted on that. I use the soft red tongues for that.

[slabber]

 

 

a) Male 

b) 5'6"

c) 29"

d) 19"

e) 57°F/45°R

f) 3°F/6°R canted

g) UPZ RC11 orange race spring

 

 

Edited February 11 by slabber

[Aracan]

a) male

b) 181 cm / 5'9"

c) 86 cm / 34"

d) 51.5 cm / 20 1/4"

e) 62° F/ 41° R

f) front 3° lift, rear 3° inward canting

g) UPZ RX8 red tongues, DGSS w/ soft springs

[centsless]

a) Male

b) 5'9"

c) 31"

d) 17 1/2"

e) 69 deg F / 69 deg R

f) front toe lift 3 deg / rear heel lift 6 deg

g) boots: Deeluxe Track 700, neutral cuff cant, blue BTS front, yellow BTS rear

[BlueB]

Male, 5' 11", 32" 

About 20-3/4" on most setups, sometimes closer to 20-1/2" on narrower boards. 

Carve, EC, boards narrower than 22cm: Rear set to a tiny overhang, heel lift 5-6mm; Front tiny underhang or right at the edge, toe lift 2-3mm; Splay 5-10°. 

Freeride, Train instructors, boards wider than 22cm: Rear overhang, heel lift 2-6mm, sometimes inward cant; Front underhang, toe lift 2-3mm; Splay 10-20°. 

Teach beginners: Duck symerical or slightly directional; flat or inward cant on both; Splay 20-30°. 

K2 Mindbenders with home made springs, mostly. Sometimes Dalbello CarvX with BTS. 

Edited February 13 by BlueB

[SunSurfer]

Bump.

Thanks to all who have replied so far!

[davekempmeister]

. born male and remain so

. 195.58 cm

. 86.36 cm

. 48.26 cm

. 72 front   54 rear

. flat (no cant)

. Head Stratos Pro (mondo 31.5) w/ Intec step-in.  
 

*. I tinker with my stance constantly. the numbers listed are what I would settle on if I had to commit to a specific setup for the rest of my riding days.

[Jack M]

a) sex at birth - M

b) height (socks or barefoot) cm/inches. - 5’11”

c) inside leg measurement (socks or barefoot, floor to pubic bone) cm/inches. - 32”

d) binding centre to binding centre distance for hardboot free carving, cm/inches. - 53cm

e) binding angles front and rear - 57/53

f) front toe lift and rear heel lift degrees - 6/3

g) boots: Deeluxe, Mountain Slope, UPZ, Other - specify - Mountain Slope 

[bigwavedave]

My center to center measurement is about ½" narrower than the actual distance once I've centered heels and toes over the board. I am measuring from toe block to toe block. The offset is different with different bindings and boards.

[b.free]

a) Male

b) 195cm

c) 93cm

d) 52cm

e) 65/64 (20cm board), 78/77 (15cm board)

f) Front toe lift and flat on a rear (F2 bindings)

g) Mountain Slopes (D shell)

style) Extremecarving

 

 

Edited February 20 by b.free

[SunSurfer]

16 replies with data as of 8 March 2024.

All born male.

Heights ranging from 168cm to 195.5cm.

8 wear UPZ, 3 Deeluxe, 2 Mountain Slope, 2 a ski touring boot, 1 Head Stratos Pros.

Across the group,

Leg inseam varies from 42 to 49% of height.

Stances range from 25 to 31% of height.

Stances range from 56 to 68% of inseam.

Splay:
11/16 have 5 degrees of splay or less.

5/16 have 10 degrees of splay or more (max 21 degrees).

Canting: 4 riders report using canting.
3 of these have splay angles greater than 10 degrees and use it on the rear binding.

2 riders use front foot inward canting, 1 of the 3 with splay >10 using rear binding canting.
The other is a stance outlier, 55 degree binding angles with 0 degrees splay, and front foot only inward cant. This isn't to say this is for "wrong" for them, just that this setup pattern is uncommon.

-----------------------------------------------

Would love it to receive more data. I will periodically update the spreadsheet I'm keeping the results in.

@pokkis I need your inside leg measurement please.

@BlueB I need your freecarve binding angles for a typical freecarve board, e.g.  19-22cm at waist.

If you have already made a reply and want to edit your measurements, message me so I can update your entry.

Thanks to all replying so far.

 

 

Edited March 8 by SunSurfer

[BlueB]

17 hours ago, SunSurfer said:

 

@BlueB I need your freecarve binding angles for a typical freecarve board, e.g.  19-22cm at waist. 

Let's say 55/50 on 20 waist. 

[AcousticBoarder]

I re-evaluate my setup because of this and similar posts, so here is what I was and what I am now:

a) sex at birth

male

b) height (socks or barefoot) cm/inches.

5'7"

c) inside leg measurement (socks or barefoot, floor to pubic bone) cm/inches.

32

d) binding centre to binding centre distance for hardboot free carving, cm/inches.

20.5

e) binding angles front and rear

66,60

f) front toe lift and rear heel lift degrees

I was riding with td3 sidewinders, blue rings and pads. 6 degree toe lift onlt in the front, and 3 degree ring in the back, at 83 degrees, someone smarter than me/ with the td app could figure out the heel lift and inward chanting. I've had this setup for a good few seasons. It felt like I had the support I needed on my legs for energy transfer on the rear leg which is why I had it at that setup. Boot chanting also was a bit off, but I don't remember the direction. After some time riding, my back leg calf would always be sore. My toeside carves were good, but my heels ides often would skid out and never felt as powerful. 

I just re-evaluated my setup based on this and similar threads and discussions. I am now at:

td3 sidewinders, blue rings and pads. 6 degree toe lift onlt in the front, and 3 degree ring in the back, heel lift only. I also checked and adjusted my boot chanting to be more neutral. Results have been very positive for the first couple days. Carves feel more natural, more comfortable, and no longer have the rear leg calf soreness. My heel sides improved quite a bit and carves felt tighter. Toe sides don't feel quite as strong but are still close. All in all, it has been a great improvement! Planning to try other boards too to see how well they do. 

g) boots: Deeluxe, Mountain Slope, UPZ, Other - specify

UPZ boots, m25. 

Edited March 19 by AcousticBoarder

[fluxgame]

On 3/8/2024 at 12:27 AM, SunSurfer said:

The other is a stance outlier

That’s me, ever the outlier.