BlueB Posted January 6, 2023 Report Share Posted January 6, 2023 1 minute ago, ShortcutToMoncton said: He just told you he was a mechanical engineer……are you trying to scar him for life???? Always good to learn few shortcuts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Prust Posted January 6, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2023 (edited) Studying to be, mind you all we do around here is f*ck around and find out, so the solution seems to fit pretty well haha Edited January 6, 2023 by Rick Prust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st_lupo Posted January 6, 2023 Report Share Posted January 6, 2023 I’ll also put this out there since you are on a student budget and might get tempted… If you ever consider buying used bindings, check them over really, really well. Bindings are consumable in this sport. Bails, t-nuts, etc can and do break! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kibber Posted January 6, 2023 Report Share Posted January 6, 2023 18 hours ago, Rick Prust said: I should also be able to print some wedges, as I've got access to CAD software and 3d printers from school. Mec. Engineering has its advantages ..or go “OG” wedges until you find a deal on F2’s and do the horse-hoof wedges for toe/heel lift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Posted January 6, 2023 Report Share Posted January 6, 2023 19 hours ago, Rick Prust said: Lucky me! I just managed to get a deal on a pair of normal factory new Burton bindings with plates for 35 bucks New Burton Race Plate bindings came with a seven degree lift plate in the box. It looks like this photo. If that's included, you could try it under your rear binding. You'll end up with a lot of forward lean in your stance (because no toe lift on the front binding), but it might still work better than riding flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuxdiesel Posted January 6, 2023 Report Share Posted January 6, 2023 I was just about to suggest horse shoe wedges. They are pretty inexpensive and really durable. Depending on where you cut them, you can get a bunch of lift (toe or heel) out of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuxdiesel Posted January 6, 2023 Report Share Posted January 6, 2023 8 minutes ago, Wolf said: New Burton Race Plate bindings came with a seven degree lift plate in the box. It looks like this photo. If that's included, you could try it under your rear binding. You'll end up with a lot of forward lean in your stance (because no toe lift on the front binding), but it might still work better than riding flat. I have a bunch of those, but the problem is that as the amount of lift and cant are somewhat of interdependent. That is the beauty of simple shims under the toe or heel blocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kibber Posted January 6, 2023 Report Share Posted January 6, 2023 17 hours ago, Rick Prust said: I should also be able to print some wedges, as I've got access to CAD software and 3d printers from school. Mec. Engineering has its advantages until you score a deal on F2 Bindings, the fastest/cheapest wedges for toe/heel lift on your burton plates are these (link); requires trip to fastener aisle for longer 6mm screws and locktite. https://www.stockhoffsonline.com/acatalog/Castle-Plastics-Oval-Wedge-Pad.html#SID=395 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted January 8, 2023 Report Share Posted January 8, 2023 On 1/5/2023 at 3:07 PM, David Kirk said: The way to really tell how things will work is to follow the suggestions in my first post in this thread and play with different amounts of toe and heel lift and see how it feels on your kitchen floor. This can be harder than it may seem - you really need to open your mind to what your legs are telling you as you test different lifts on the floor. very interesting... the hubris in me thought i done enough carpet surfing but since there are no snow any excuse to put on the boots and do snow dance. synchronized straight up/down motion does seem to offer true insight but i am not quite perceptive enough to be able to utilized that info to dial it in. But it does offer new signal on what to look for. This also raised another question. carpet/living room setup are "static" and real carving is dynamic. Board get decamber/bend/arc in various degree when we are in motion/carving. This is one (of many) problem plate system is design to solved - have a stable platform to preserved our optimized setup. Q - do we optimized setup for static? or for motion? or some where in between? I can see both side. having a good/stable starting point allow us to bend the board into carve as early as possible also clean our input so we don't provide lots of noise which amplify and we had to correct mid carve. On the other hand: Often for me what feel good when i am stationary is disastrous when i am in motion. Maybe it's other way around. when i not riding well; i am fighting the setup; when i am riding well the setup seems less important. Tinkering is part of the fun... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kirk Posted January 8, 2023 Report Share Posted January 8, 2023 18 hours ago, pow4ever said: very interesting... the hubris in me thought i done enough carpet surfing but since there are no snow any excuse to put on the boots and do snow dance. synchronized straight up/down motion does seem to offer true insight but i am not quite perceptive enough to be able to utilized that info to dial it in. But it does offer new signal on what to look for. This also raised another question. carpet/living room setup are "static" and real carving is dynamic. Board get decamber/bend/arc in various degree when we are in motion/carving. This is one (of many) problem plate system is design to solved - have a stable platform to preserved our optimized setup. Q - do we optimized setup for static? or for motion? or some where in between? I can see both side. having a good/stable starting point allow us to bend the board into carve as early as possible also clean our input so we don't provide lots of noise which amplify and we had to correct mid carve. On the other hand: Often for me what feel good when i am stationary is disastrous when i am in motion. Maybe it's other way around. when i not riding well; i am fighting the setup; when i am riding well the setup seems less important. Tinkering is part of the fun... Should the set up be optimized for the static or dynamic? I'm not sure that they differ much. I think if you drop your hips straight down and the lifts and forward lean aren't good then you will end up moving forward/aft when you lower the hips...or you'll be weighting one toe or heel more than the other....or both. If your set up allows for you to lower your hips straight down and this results in even weighting/pressuring of the cuffs then you will have a very predictable and stable platform to balance on, and make power from. You'll still be able to adjust fore/aft as needed during the turn but it will be your choice and not one made for you by the set up. dave 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nextcarve Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 If I look at the "Bend it" thread ... ... a flat floor might not be ideal to setup your heel/toe lift. On 1/8/2023 at 1:37 AM, pow4ever said: Q - do we optimized setup for static? or for motion? or some where in between? Therefore this is a valid question to ask. I ride on a flat binding setup, but I have the BTS springs set up that way, that cuff of my back boot is a bit less upright then the front one. In combination with the springs I have good mobility for the motions needed while riding and feel comfortable. But in the end you have to find out what works for you and the tools of lift and canting of your bindings and boots give you the tools. Your preferences may also change, when your riding evolves. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 thank you @David Kirk @nextcarve! Another food for thought - is there only one single set up or maybe it's possible to find multiple equally good setup? i was able to bend but lost it. missed that feeling of snow coming up to you and board just swoosh around using your hand as center of circle back/forth, toe/heel. My back knee is weak/fubar so i just can't get enough pressure on the back foot/heel side turn. My mind want to do what the body unable to perform. Hopefully i can figured it out setup/technique and get back to carve nirvana. might need to focus more rotation as i can't bend/angulate. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kirk Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 34 minutes ago, pow4ever said: thank you @David Kirk @nextcarve! Another food for thought - is there only one single set up or maybe it's possible to find multiple equally good setup? i was able to bend but lost it. missed that feeling of snow coming up to you and board just swoosh around using your hand as center of circle back/forth, toe/heel. My back knee is weak/fubar so i just can't get enough pressure on the back foot/heel side turn. My mind want to do what the body unable to perform. Hopefully i can figured it out setup/technique and get back to carve nirvana. might need to focus more rotation as i can't bend/angulate. I don't think that there is one perfect or ideal set up. I think there is a certain range that would work best and when getting too far outside that range things will start to get worse. I'm a bicycle framebuilder by profession and a lot of my time is spent designing a custom bike so that the person riding it is comfortable and efficient. There is no "one perfect" position on a bike but instead there is a fair narrow range that will work best for them...and within that range the small changes can help with comfort or power transmission. I think the snowboard is the same way. There are certain basic ergonomic things to keep in mind and they present a frame work to work in. If you get too far out of that (an extreme example would be duck stance on an alpine board) and while someone might be able to make it work they are swimming upstream and making life more difficult than it needs to be. So staying within the range will usually yield the best results. I hope that makes sense - it's late and it's been a long day so who knows! dave 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Prust Posted January 10, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 So, on the topic of making wedges yourself, what would be the best option when going a CAD and 3D printing way? All of the the bindings I have don't have detachable heel and toe block, so I gues I'd have to make a wedge for under it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 9 hours ago, David Kirk said: I hope that makes sense - it's late and it's been a long day so who knows! it make perfect sense! thank you for taking the time at the end of long day to shared/write those thoughtful responses. There might be hope for me yet It's a journey - car park (close but no dice) -> stadium(in the ball park) -> designated seat (dialed in) I was stumbling a bit in the "close enough" category but never had it truly dialed in and now fighting with the setup instead working with it (some how end up on the highway/detour when i was looking for bathroom in the ball park analogues speaking) this might be the year... all the extra awareness should come in handy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Prust Posted January 10, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 On 1/6/2023 at 3:21 PM, kibber said: until you score a deal on F2 Bindings, the fastest/cheapest wedges for toe/heel lift on your burton plates are these (link); requires trip to fastener aisle for longer 6mm screws and locktite. https://www.stockhoffsonline.com/acatalog/Castle-Plastics-Oval-Wedge-Pad.html#SID=395 Also, what would be the farrier wedge procedure? We've got a farrier friend, so I'm kinda curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 DIY is good but i wonder often if i have taken on something that's beyond my ability. but i am not that handy. Health/body part is priceless.... these might help: google-fu copy & paste the follow to google search: site:forums.alpinesnowboarder.com hoof wedge https://forums.alpinesnowboarder.com/topic/49180-diy-cantlift/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Prust Posted January 10, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 Cheers, thanks a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st_lupo Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 12 hours ago, pow4ever said: thank you @David Kirk @nextcarve! Another food for thought - is there only one single set up or maybe it's possible to find multiple equally good setup? i was able to bend but lost it. missed that feeling of snow coming up to you and board just swoosh around using your hand as center of circle back/forth, toe/heel. My back knee is weak/fubar so i just can't get enough pressure on the back foot/heel side turn. My mind want to do what the body unable to perform. Hopefully i can figured it out setup/technique and get back to carve nirvana. might need to focus more rotation as i can't bend/angulate. That picture should be your avatar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 (edited) 15 hours ago, Rick Prust said: So, on the topic of making wedges yourself, what would be the best option when going a CAD and 3D printing way? All of the the bindings I have don't have detachable heel and toe block, so I gues I'd have to make a wedge for under it Your'e presumably Dutch given your location. Dutch men are tall on average, and a 50cm stance may be too narrow for you. I'm 182cm with a roughly 90cm bare leg inseam measurement and ride a 56cm stance. Your stance distance should be in proportion to the total length of the levers (legs) that will be attached to the bindings. Your boots are listed as a type of UPS boot (? UPZ). Hard to know what the insole ramp angle is for them. You probably want to aim for a lift slope between 4-6 degrees front and rear. From your avatar it looks like you probably have a degree of boot overhang at your current listed angles of 57 Front & 54 Rear. Adjust your boot angles as per this video Your final bindings angles are still likely to be close enough to 60 degrees and the combination with a stance distance appropriate to your physique is likely to mean that you just need lift and NO CANTING in your wedges. So the long axis of each wedge needs to match the long axis of the front or rear binding in their mounted position and angles. If the axis doesn't match you end up with unintended canting. The Bomber bindings in the video have an elastomer base that a) spreads the forces the binding applies to the board and b) grips the board surface so that the binding doesn't rotate under load. See the recent thread on SG bindings rotating under load. Which CAD software you use and final materials you print with I can't advise you. You will probably need to make a completely original design to mesh neatly with your current Nitro Silver bindings. Edited January 11, 2023 by SunSurfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimW Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 Note that you can stack the cant wedges from F2's to form a lift by alternating rigth & left wedges. 4 wedges stacked will give you about half the height of the heel lift block. Also good for fine tuning lift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 What he said. The "out of the box" wedges are designed to work precisely that way (alternated), although they're not installed like that by default. You can easily set up at least 1° toe lift and I think 3° heel lift (zero cant) with the standard wedges, but you do have to put them together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kibber Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 23 hours ago, Rick Prust said: Also, what would be the farrier wedge procedure? We've got a farrier friend, so I'm kinda curious a ferrier wedge (2° or 3°) goes between ea binding and board for front toe lift and/or rear heel lift* *requires drilling holes (3x or 4x pending disc type) and longer 6mm hardware w locktite. —some solutions (like this) are old school, going back to us 80’s and 90’s + hardcore tinker’ers !! consider it an R&D step and be looking for a good deal on a pair of F2’s. Happy Carving 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted January 12, 2023 Report Share Posted January 12, 2023 On 1/10/2023 at 12:27 PM, st_lupo said: That picture should be your avatar! i thought about that often.... lol "Vanity, thy name is human". If i can ride the way i used to ride then my avatar pic doesn't matter If i unable to ride at the same level i was then the "new/old" avatar pic just mock me mercilessly. Took me few years to realize how well i ride have nothing to do how crappy the person that i am I rather to be remember as the guy that always smile than the guy that take life too seriously. Maybe some hint of sour grape in there but i need to remind myself to have fun and enjoy the short ride we have left on this journey. Those who start it with us; might not always stay with us So many that started carving not longer ride or heard from; treasure the here and now. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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