Rick Prust Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 Hello Fellow Alpine enthusiasts! I've been rocking hardboots for two years now, but ive still got some questions about my stance and setup. I'm currently running a ~50 cm stance with 57/54 angles. The problem i think im facing is that i feel like my rear leg is too "locked up". I always feel like my rear leg is experiencing most of the stresses when boarding, especially when in sitting lower on my board. I also cant for the life of me get my rear knee behind my front leg. now, i am by all means a beginner, so any advise is welcome and will be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 Width and angles sound good assuming several other factors (height? boot size? board width?). Sounds like maybe your bindings are flat or only canted inward? A good "default" stance setup is toe lift under the front foot, and heel lift under the back foot, and no cant. Experiment from there. What bindings do you have? If F2, remove the inward cant shims that came pre-installed. F2s only come with one lift. Order another one from Donek. While you wait, you can try putting the one lift under your back foot heel or front foot toe. Also, don't try to get your rear knee behind your front leg. That's 90s technique mimicked by Craig Kelly fans. Your knees should be separate and independent. Some reading: http://alpinesnowboarder.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/canting-and-lift.pdf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltonmaine Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 Interesting..... as I'm setting up my new board I was just looking at putting the heel lift and toe lift wedges in (which I use on my F2 bindings). Seeing that this will be my first turns with the ALLFLEX plate I decided to just go stock and see how the plate felt. Maybe I'll just pull the cant shims and go with the heel and toe lifts. Keep ya posted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 Yes definitely. I wish F2 would stop installing those inward cant shims at the factory and just put them in the box. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltonmaine Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 15 minutes ago, Jack M said: Yes definitely. I wish F2 would stop installing those inward cant shims at the factory and just put them in the box. Well Kessler sends them too! The bindings I just mounted had them in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 Kessler bindings are F2 bindings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltonmaine Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 Haha.... good point. I've decided to go with the heel lift and flat up front. Might add the gas pedal later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kirk Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 Try this - Put two pieces of masking tape on a hard surface floor the same distance from each other as your stance width. Put your boots on and buckle them as if you were riding and then stand with your approximate stance angle on the two pieces of tape so that you are standing as if you were on your board…the tape being under the center of your boot more or less (perfection is not the goal here - just get the boot more or less centered over the tape and at your approximate angles). This is more or less what it’s like with your binding set up flat. Can you stand naturally? Are you more or less “cuff neutral” in the boots - meaning not working the front of back of the cuff just to stand there? For most people standing like this will be awkward and uncomfortable and you’ll feel pressure on the back of the front boot and the front of the rear boot and you may need to rotate your hips in an odd way to allow your feet to stay flat on the floor. Not good. Now put a hard object like a book or piece of 3/4” plywood under your front toe to simulate toe lift in the front. This is no doubt much more natural feeling. You’ll probably also notice that your rear foot is now carrying the slightly more weight than the front foot. You will probably also feel that your shins are pushing less on the boot cuffs to stand in a more neutral position. Now take that book out from under your front toe and put it under your rear heel and stand naturally. You’ll probably feel the weight shift to the front foot and the shin-to-cuff loading change. Now finally!….put a book under both the front toe and rear heel. This will most likely result in your standing more naturally with less cuff load and with more even front-to-rear weight distribution. I think you’ll find that you can lower you hips/butt straight down and you’ll feel the load on the front of both shins increase. The key words here are “straight down” - just sink into the boots and you’ll probably feel the load on the front of the cuffs increase about the same for both boots. This is an awesome thing and what we are looking for. We have two legs that need to be able to work independently even though they are attached to the same board. With a front toe lift and a rear heel lift the legs can share an equal amount of the work load. The caveats - there are some very good riders out there for whom flat boots work well and I say more power to them. For mere mortals not looking to make the sport harder toe and heel lifts used in conjunction make riding hard easier, and will help keep one of your legs from getting fried while the other is fine. The other caveat is that the amount of forward lean set into the boots will influence things. Most will find that having a bit more forward lean on the rear boot will allow for a more neutral stance and even leg loading. Forward lean can be fine tuned once you have toe and heel lifts under the boots. A little can go a long way and can take a good position to a great position. Lastly…if you’ve been riding with one or both feet flat and you switch to front and rear lifts you might feel that your stance is suddenly too narrow. Running front and rear lifts will allow for a wider stance, and better balance, and make it easier to apply power through the boots and into the board….and just as importantly to absorb the power and bumps coming up into the board and your body from the snow. Most of us here are not racers but we can learn a lot from them. I think you’d be very hard pressed to find many top tier racers that don’t run with a toe and heel lift. I think you’ll also find that nearly no one uses a binding cant unless they have a very unusual biomechanical issue that they have to deal with. The cants that come with F2 binding are best left to shoving under that table you have with one short leg to keep it from rocking. I realize that some will read the above and say it’s BS…I respect that. That said most riders will benefit greatly with a toe and heel lift. Now if we can just get F2 to ship the bindings with the lifts that nearly everyone needs instead of implying that one is fine…… Dave 6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Prust Posted January 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 Thanks a lot for the answers! i could supply the board measurements and all, but as my bindings are flat as a pancake, thats probably the problem. ill have to have a look into cant plates by the sound of it. Thanks all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kirk Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, Rick Prust said: Thanks a lot for the answers! i could supply the board measurements and all, but as my bindings are flat as a pancake, thats probably the problem. ill have to have a look into cant plates by the sound of it. Thanks all! No cants unless you have lower leg or foot issues...you want a toe lift under the front foot and a heel lift under the rear. Have fun! dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 Just to be clear, "cant" means tilting the binding left or right. "Lift" means tilting the binding forward or back. You should try toe lift and heel lift and no cant at first. Then decide if you want to add cant back into the equation later. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Prust Posted January 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 Ah, good to know! By the way? Any tips for achieving the lift on my bindings? I'm on quite the student budget, so are there any "cheap" ways? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kirk Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 5 minutes ago, Rick Prust said: Ah, good to know! By the way? Any tips for achieving the lift on my bindings? I'm on quite the student budget, so are there any "cheap" ways? What bindings are you using? dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Prust Posted January 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 Yeah, Good question... I know that they're nitro bindings, front clipping and as flat as you can get on the bottom. Don't know anything else about them... All the things I've got are second hand "cheap" things I reckon they might even be split board bindings... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 Great discussion!! How does internal boot ramp come into play with toe/hell lift? UPZ/MS951 have steep internal ramp angle. So front toe lift on the binding compensate for that. The rear binding could flat as boot internal have build in lift? That was my understanding but i could be way off base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Prust Posted January 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 I've also got a pair of Burton step ins that aren't mounted, but they don't step in as well as they used to, so they're a bit of a pain to get into Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Prust Posted January 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 Lucky me! I just managed to get a deal on a pair of normal factory new Burton bindings with plates for 35 bucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 18 minutes ago, Rick Prust said: Lucky me! I just managed to get a deal on a pair of normal factory new Burton bindings with plates for 35 bucks Umm, those aren't really going to move you forward. They are also flat. You're still going to have to find or make lifts that don't have cant... and I don't think you can find them anymore. I'd cancel that transaction if you can. Unfortunately this isn't a cheap sport. At some point you're going to have to open your wallet if you want to progress. F2 Race Titanium (with an extra lift kit) are the cheapest new option, and sometimes they show up in the classifieds here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 If you are more visually oriented this may help you understand the interaction between your body shape and your boots/bindings/stance. https://youtu.be/mBTTJMo6Me4 The video lays out what canting is, what lift is and why you might need either. It also contains a link to an ASB thread on 3d printing binding wedges. I have homemade binding wedges on my F2 Intec bindings. I made mine from exterior plywood with a sheath of fibreglass cloth/resin which I already had in my garage. Buying a second set of F2 wedges may be the fastest/simplest option. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kirk Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 2 hours ago, pow4ever said: Great discussion!! How does internal boot ramp come into play with toe/hell lift? UPZ/MS951 have steep internal ramp angle. So front toe lift on the binding compensate for that. The rear binding could flat as boot internal have build in lift? That was my understanding but i could be way off base. Yes...sole ramp angle does come into play here but unless your boots have WAY more than average I'll bet that you'll still benefit from have a heel lift in the rear just like nearly every world cup racer using Mountain Slope boots. The way to really tell how things will work is to follow the suggestions in my first post in this thread and play with different amounts of toe and heel lift and see how it feels on your kitchen floor. This can be harder than it may seem - you really need to open your mind to what your legs are telling you as you test different lifts on the floor. Feel how much weight each leg carries and how your shins are interacting with the boot cuff. When you have a good combo of lift (a gross adjustment) and forward lean (fine adjustment) you will feel the same pressure on the front of your shins against the boot cuff when you drop your hips straight down. The straight down thing being key. You can make lots of different (and not so good) adjustments feel like you have your shins pressing with equal force if you move fore/aft when you sink down. Drop straight down. You know you've nailed it when you sink dead straight down and the boot pressures feel the same. dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kirk Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Rick Prust said: Lucky me! I just managed to get a deal on a pair of normal factory new Burton bindings with plates for 35 bucks A pair of F2's with the extra lift kit (they come with one and you need two) will be the cheapest, safest, and quickest way to get where you want to go. dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Prust Posted January 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 Ah well, I'll try and cancel the transaction, but it's great to know what I should be aiming towards, now I know what to ask for my b-day thanks a lot for the help though! You guys are the best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Prust Posted January 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 I should also be able to print some wedges, as I've got access to CAD software and 3d printers from school. Mec. Engineering has its advantages 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted January 6, 2023 Report Share Posted January 6, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Rick Prust said: I should also be able to print some wedges, as I've got access to CAD software and 3d printers from school. Mec. Engineering has its advantages It's easy to make lift shims for Burton bindings. Thin Ikea cutting board, stronger scissors, drill, permanent marker. Actually, it works for any type of binding that can accommodate shims (F2, Proflex, Snowpro... even TDs) Edited January 6, 2023 by BlueB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortcutToMoncton Posted January 6, 2023 Report Share Posted January 6, 2023 1 minute ago, BlueB said: It's easy to make lift shims for Burton bindings. Thin Ikea cutting board, stronger scissors, drill, permanent marker. He just told you he was a mechanical engineer……are you trying to scar him for life???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.