billyt. Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 Just recently bought new liners, Palau 141. Installed into my Deeluxe LeMans. They are a bit taller than previous stock liners, and seem to be stiffer. Fit is improved as well. Normal riding front locked at 3 and rear boot unlocked. This weekend rode in mostly fresh snow with both unlocked. On groomed runs I was able to still carve hard and I was comfortable. Is there a risk of injury riding like this? Does anyone else ride like this? Is now the time to purchase the BTS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 Now is the time to purchase the BTS. With the Deeluxe forward lean selector locked, it prevents the ankle hinge from hinging. So any flex comes from deforming the whole boot. Not a very elegant approach. In walk mode you're relying on the stiffness of the tongue and liner. I would say there is risk of hyper-flexing your ankle, especially if you get into a situation like chatter or oscillation. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamby Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 I really like my BTS system. A great upgrade that helped me find the sweet spot in boots that I initially felt were too stiff for me. I would say that riding in walk mode may not be a great idea for those looking to ride more aggressively, but might be fine for those not looking to carve/charge hard. I have tried riding in walk mode in the past, but it seemed like I was leaving myself less than well protected. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc1 Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 Yes, now is the time.You will like BTS. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kirk Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 BTS. dave 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carvin' Marvin Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 Yeah I'll second (fifth?) the BTS on the Deeluxe shells. You'll like it. Now that I'm in UPZ I ride locked for firm snow/carving and unlocked for soft snow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.E Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 I've done a lot of freeriding in unlocked Raichle/ Deeluxe and UPZ boots. Worked for me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimW Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 (edited) I have Deeluxe Lemans and always ride with both unlocked, with the knob turned on the back boot so it cannot go fully upright. Works fine for me, also carving hard on steep runs. The locked position does not work for me at all. May try BTS someday, but don't feel the need. FYI, I'm 80kg, 191cm (180lbs, 6'3) Edited January 23, 2020 by TimW 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emdee406 Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 Now that I spend 90+% of my time in soft boots, riding with my Head Stratos Pros in Walk, doesn’t worry me as regards ankle safety...they’re still much more supportive than my Salomon S-Labs, and I ride at similar speeds in both set ups. I find that the walk mode gives me so much more flex and consequently more manoeverablilty. I’ll even ride them in courses... in Slalom it gives me agility, and in GS allows me a much smoother, more progressive application of power. I even have the FLAD duck taped up, so they won’t inadvertently drop down and lock mid-turn...as they did once, during a race! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 It all comes down to your risk tolerance. We are all adults here. Just my 2 cents: I will not ride in unlocked in the front; riding with back foot unlock is okay. As I progress: At some point I did find that unlocking both front/back very helpful for my riding both on/off groom. This is with UPZ stock springs: could be an isolated incident: Riding in soft snow is great fun with boots unlocked. However i did dug the nose of snowboard in patch of soft snow. The board stopped; i didn't. front boot hyper extended; my ankle is "ok" but the boot was stuck in the super front lean position(way pass the front lean stop). It did carve great riding like that; it show how much angulation help. Was lucky that I didn't break anything(body/equipments). I did "grow out" that riding unlocked phase since and didn't feel it hinder my progression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 I don't ride unlocked unless it's really deep and soft which means for me, never. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik J Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 I rode unlocked on a few sets of boots (all raichle, deeluxe) for 10+ years. I loved it. Went back to try locked every so often and did not like it. Then I put on bts for a while, didn't make a big difference to me in riding but it did strengthen the boot setup. I am on now on upz with softer black tongues and the dgss setup which I love. Lots of smooth flex. I run higher angles which gives me great fore and after mobility but plenty firm laterally. I have a spare bts I can mail you. Try it out, see if you like it, send it back when you're done. PM me if you're interested 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technick Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 BTS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyt. Posted January 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 Thanks for the responses. I can see where transitioning from groom firm to softer edge snow without being locked could lead to hyper extension. I do like the greater range of flexibility without the boot deforming. BTS seems like a no brainer. EricJ I will pm you about that offer! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVR Posted January 24, 2020 Report Share Posted January 24, 2020 I like softer hard boots.... switched to UPZs and have red tongues, with (from UPZ) the softer springs... these ride like the Deeluxe with BTS and feel comfortable now... But I am an amateur here.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted January 24, 2020 Report Share Posted January 24, 2020 I feel I should mention that walk mode seems to be something that is fading away. DeeLuxe has the BTS and other spring systems. UPZ has the RCR box* and other spring systems. Mountain Slope (and their clones) have an active spring systems. Phantom has springs** for the Atomic Backland. Perhaps, in time, this will be a moot point. *http://i-carve.com/upz_rcr_box **http://www.phantomsnow.com/shop/link-levers-for-atomic-backlands 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Edges Posted January 24, 2020 Report Share Posted January 24, 2020 I ride an old set of Suzukas with BTS. Blue springs on the bottom and yellow on top, with very little pre tension. This covers most of my carving set-ups but I do get a "reminder" every now and then when the toe side edge really loads up on a big board. Try the BTS and you'll never look back... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emdee406 Posted January 24, 2020 Report Share Posted January 24, 2020 I should have added to my comments, that when I have soft snow (quite often in Utah happily), I switch to soft boots, thereby avoiding auguring in, and hyper flexing my ankle. So riding my Heads in Walk mode works for me... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpyride Posted January 24, 2020 Report Share Posted January 24, 2020 We had this conversation years ago on the old Bomber site, and more specifically whether or not it was safer to ride either way. It pretty much came out a draw. Personally speaking I'm sure that there were times when I would have been subject to a Tib Fib fracture if I had been riding in the ride mode. I've been riding in the walk mode for 23 years in Raichle 122s and 123s and never a problem. I'm a light weight, and at 150 lbs at the time I managed to break a board just forward of the front foot coming off a headwall into a trough, so I'm sold on the Walk Mode, and I'm in rough and bumpy territory 90% of the time. Obviously people have different opinions, but I'd rather be loose and adaptive than stiff and inflexible. Your riding will be yours, so it's what you feel comfortable with. Quote Quote 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aracan Posted January 24, 2020 Report Share Posted January 24, 2020 My wife had a Calcaneus fracture once: washed out on toeside turn, and the terrain/surface was so that the toeside edge would catch - release - catch - release etc. without her able to stop. Each repetition gave her a whack from the board to the soles of her feet. She rode unlocked then. Personally, I don't take the risk that I believe riding unlocked poses. Since I find the UPZ stock FLA too stiff, I ride with DGSS. For me, it delivers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 On 1/23/2020 at 5:37 PM, lonbordin said: I feel I should mention that walk mode seems to be something that is fading away. DeeLuxe has the BTS and other spring systems. UPZ has the RCR box* and other spring systems. Mountain Slope (and their clones) have an active spring systems. Phantom has springs** for the Atomic Backland / and walk mode, it shouldn't be that hard to do . Perhaps, in time, this will be a moot point. *http://i-carve.com/upz_rcr_box **http://www.phantomsnow.com/shop/link-levers-for-atomic-backlands if i could put my stepin heels on backlands I'd be all over it 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 I went from riding mostly locked Dalbello CRX (ski version of Head Stratos), to modifying them with BTS, to without BTS and mostly unlocked. Now I ride Blax (also HSP equivalent), but a model made of really soft plastic. I lock the front boot only for hardpack. Besides being heavier and a unnecessary complication, BTS was less vesatile and harder to adjust. Without, I have instantaneous access to 3 flexes (ski/carve/walk) and can tune the forward lean without tools, or even without taking the board off. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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