Jack M Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 Stumbled across this somewhat recent thread today... https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/315295-Educate-me-on-carving-hardboot-snowboarding Some familiar names there, fighting against the tide. Some of the ignorance is staggering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliechocolate Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 It goes beyond the gear right into the act. https://www.snowboardingforum.com/snowboarding-general-chat/245370-snowboarding-really-about-go-through-euro.html To the average slip and slider, carvers are kooky, nevermind being in alpine gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 It's interesting looking at the rationale people use. I didn't read it all, but they're sure they won't like it so they've never tried it. They sound so much like skiers from the 1980s, but then that's what they'd have been then. Whatever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big mario Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 Interesting read, so much hate in there and in the snowboarding forum that Charlie linked to. I have a hard time understanding it. But I, like most of you as well, am a freak. I say that with all due respect, of course... mario 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Edges Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 "Freaks of the Trench" unite... Despite both those threads being quite dated. It is frustrating to read the ingorance and lack of understanding in both those links. We are definitely not doing enough to "edumacate" the masses... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 Meh, I'm never going to try a teleboard or monoski. I bet they're fun, but I'm just not interested. If someone tried to convince me that they're awesome, they're just wasting they're time. Though @skwalguy was killing it at MCC on the mono! Spend your time on people that are interested and want to try it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 even negative advertising is good for recognition 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dredman Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 We have a very kind forum over here.. Thank you moderators for keeping things cruelty free. Just this group being welcoming and helpful does a lot to promote the sport. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st_lupo Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 8 hours ago, charliechocolate said: To the average slip and slider, carvers are kooky, nevermind being in alpine gear. But that's a good thing, right? It's up to us to keep up a Hunter S. Thomson vibe in snow sports! On thing I thought about is that some people must come across those old threads while trying to find information about hardbooting, and alot of those threads have references back to the old bomber forums which currently just yields a 403 error. I've seen that the current bomber owner does have a link to alpinesnowboarder buried in the newbies section, might it be possible to ask the current owner to update the forums.bomberonline.com link with a page that at least mentions that the spiritual successor of the BOL forums is now at forums.alpinesnowboarder.com? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 12 hours ago, Corey said: Spend your time on people that are interested and want to try it. I did that and he was ripping it on his second half day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, st_lupo said: But that's a good thing, right? It's up to us to keep up a Hunter S. Thomson vibe in snow sports! On thing I thought about is that some people must come across those old threads while trying to find information about hardbooting, and alot of those threads have references back to the old bomber forums which currently just yields a 403 error. I've seen that the current bomber owner does have a link to alpinesnowboarder buried in the newbies section, might it be possible to ask the current owner to update the forums.bomberonline.com link with a page that at least mentions that the spiritual successor of the BOL forums is now at forums.alpinesnowboarder.com? I think at least all NA retailers like Donek, Coiler, Prior, YYZ, UPZ should be linking to the forum on their sites. I reckon if there were more guys willing to make YouTube videos for hardboots in NA it'd make a huge difference. Proper beginner tutorial playlists, gear reviews, advice vlogs, production value filmed with gimbal and drones and whatever etc. That's what people EXPECT these days for any sort of social proof. I mean how else do people find something that's cool these days? Literally only social media like Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Reddit even, are the outlets people go to to source information, especially younger people. No one who is thinking about getting into carving thinks "oh I want to see a bunch of recluses typing up a storm about what exact angle their hip is in relation to their front foot in relation to their gilmour fuego underhang bias." (that recluse is basically me, guilty!!!). As much as a forum is great and I love it, it isn't the first thing people think when they are researching into things that might be perceived as cool. It is straight to YouTube. I can rattle off a whole bunch of snowboard YouTubers who would have over a couple of million subscribers in total. The hardboot scene needs people passionate enough to try to get into the social media scene, maybe even collaborate with said YouTubers for some credibility. The carving scene is blowing up in Korea, China and Japan, so even if it dies in the West, it'll live on stronger than it's ever been in the East! But look at what they're doing. I was just watching this video below, she is a grear rider, but there are much better out there, but it has amazing production value, she has nice lipstick on and her hair goes wisshhhhhhh in the air when she carves in slow-mo to heroic music. It's for softboots though. Compared to a result on the first page of youtube for hardboot snowboarding. Edited March 8, 2019 by daveo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 10 hours ago, dredman said: We have a very kind forum over here.. Thank you moderators for keeping things cruelty free. Just this group being welcoming and helpful does a lot to promote the sport. Actually we don't have to do much moderating at all. This is a compliment to our members! 30 minutes ago, daveo said: I reckon if there were more guys willing to make YouTube videos for hardboots in NA it'd make a huge difference. I've been wanting to do this literally since day 1, but I have a profound lack of willing and capable cinematographers near me. As for the video above of the young Asian woman in softboots.... beautiful control, but why doesn't she engage the edge more? She should be leaving serious ruts in that trail but there are none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 22 minutes ago, Jack M said: As for the video above of the young Asian woman in softboots.... beautiful control, but why doesn't she engage the edge more? She should be leaving serious ruts in that trail but there are none. If that's Korea, she's likely on super dooper hard pack / ice. But yeah no real case of trench foot going on there. But the production value... That's some serious business right there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st_lupo Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, daveo said: If that's Korea, she's likely on super dooper hard pack / ice. But yeah no real case of trench foot going on there. But the production value... That's some serious business right there! Good video. You've seen the Carving Plugin videos, right? Ohhh mama, I love those! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, st_lupo said: Good video. You've seen the Carving Plugin videos, right? Ohhh mama, I love those! Yeah I've got a whole bunch of them on dvd from last year my friend in Japan gave me! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauleleven Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Jack M said: She should be leaving serious ruts in that trail but there are none. Any imperfection in technique gets amplified on softboot 10x. If the back foot doesn't have strong support like racing style, it won't be a clean line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, daveo said: Compared to a result on the first page of youtube for hardboot snowboarding. There are probably better SEO folks on the forum than myself. That said if we, as a group, could decide on a couple of videos we'd like to see on the front page of results we can probably accomplish that just by watching the videos and liking the videos. Just those simple steps by a large percentage of the forum would bring them up in the listings. Using Instgram, FB, Twitter to post about the videos would help as well. If we get lucky an influencer picks one up and it goes viral. Edited March 8, 2019 by lonbordin one.... one.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticBoarder Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 I'd be willing to do the whole YouTube thing, I've got atleast some video editing experience, but my problem is I'm 2 or so hours away from mediocre snow, 4 from good/great. I don't ride often enough to do it and since I don't ride often enough, my skill level isn't there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted March 9, 2019 Report Share Posted March 9, 2019 11 hours ago, Jack M said: but why doesn't she engage the edge more? Because she can't. Her performance clearly reflects a desire to express an accepted visual norm, rather than quality riding. 7 hours ago, lonbordin said: That said if we, as a group, could decide on a couple of videos we'd like to see on the front page of results we can probably accomplish that just by watching the videos and liking the videos. If the goal is to influence the perception of alpine snowboarding by way of visual media, it might be a good idea to run a selection of footage past an unbiased focus group. Given some of the videos posted as noteworthy to this forum, beauty is clearly in the eye of the beholden. Which is not to say it's all rubbish, just that what some find attractive, others find vaguely repellent; in both cases for reasons that don't have to make sense in order to inform behaviour. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted March 9, 2019 Report Share Posted March 9, 2019 23 minutes ago, Beckmann AG said: Because she can't. Her performance clearly reflects a desire to express an accepted visual norm, rather than quality riding. I reckon good quality riding is subjective, though. To her, reflecting the accepted visual norm of their riding style probably is the highest quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted March 9, 2019 Report Share Posted March 9, 2019 37 minutes ago, Beckmann AG said: Given some of the videos posted as noteworthy to this forum, beauty is clearly in the eye of the beholden. Which is not to say it's all rubbish, just that what some find attractive, others find vaguely repellent; in both cases for reasons that don't have to make sense in order to inform behaviour. Understood. Perhaps choosing a video for a particular style (Bomber, EC, PureCarve, etc.) might allow for a chance at consensus. Yes, consensus art... I know... I know... Flies and what they're attracted to.... Most people seem to like being lead so let's make @Jack M pick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted March 9, 2019 Report Share Posted March 9, 2019 (edited) What I've noticed in Japan is that the Japanese ski schools run A LOT of carving lessons. I'm talking almost every lesson is a carving lesson, even on the bunny hill. Once one foot skating, sliding, leafing, j turn and linked turns are done, then next step is a carved turn. I'm talking day 3 stuff for the average rider and I'm talking proper carving. They have all levels of carving lessons. It's their mentality to constantly improve. So many times you'd see a group of young teenagers going 1 by 1 trying to carve a green slope. You can tell they've only been riding a few days but they'll sit on the same run all day going 1 by 1, meeting half way and discussing what they think is wrong, then practicing to the bottom. Rinse and repeat. My coach friend a couple of times per day would stop with them mid way and give them mini lessons if he saw a bunch of people putting in effort, which was basically always. From there it was easy for some of them to try hardboots, which some did. On the other hand, the English speaking schools don't even offer a single specific carving lesson. The instructors look like some are on their first day. And then you see the Aussies just sliding down the whole mountain out of control. And all I'm thinking is, "That's dog shittt". Then there is the problem of people not actually knowing the definition of carving. It's rampant. If people were more interested in carving it'd be easier for them to see the benefit of hardboots. But, I think the recent slew of softboot carving boards are almost to the detriment of the hardboot carving scene. So I think it's almost a paradox, getting people more familiar with carving will make them interested in carving, which should get them interested in hardboots, but might just get them interested in softboot carve equipment. Check out this pixel. That's his 4th hour on hardboots. Edited March 9, 2019 by daveo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st_lupo Posted March 9, 2019 Report Share Posted March 9, 2019 2 hours ago, daveo said: What I've noticed in Japan is that the Japanese ski schools run A LOT of carving lessons. I'm talking almost every lesson is a carving lesson, even on the bunny hill. Once one foot skating, sliding, leafing, j turn and linked turns are done, then next step is a carved turn. I'm talking day 3 stuff for the average rider and I'm talking proper carving. They have all levels of carving lessons. It's their mentality to constantly improve. So many times you'd see a group of young teenagers going 1 by 1 trying to carve a green slope. ... Warning, lots of overgeneralization in the following paragraph. Could be a lot of cultural influences that shape that? One karate trainer that I’ve had used to teach in Japan also. He often highlighted how you can’t train typical western-hemisphere folks the same way as they do in Japan. Typically, Japanese folks expected and accepted a lot of repetition, just training a certain movement over and over and over until the sensei accepted it was good enough. Whereas westerners required more explanation around the hows and the whys and the whats in it for me. Westerners also got more easily frusterated if they didn’t perceive advancement quickly enough. You know, if we could get some footage on one of the “People Are Awesome” videos on You Tube, that would be gold. I’m pretty sure there must be some hardboot riding that is objectively awesome for 80% of the folks that don’t have a preformed opinion. Not just carving or even technically good carving, but that antigravity how the hell do they do that kinda riding. I’ll volunteer... ...for selecting the soundtrack. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted March 9, 2019 Report Share Posted March 9, 2019 1 minute ago, st_lupo said: Warning, lots of overgeneralization in the following paragraph. I think you're 100% correct. Not overgeneralized at all. 2 minutes ago, st_lupo said: Could be a lot of cultural influences that shape that? Yes, definitely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauleleven Posted March 9, 2019 Report Share Posted March 9, 2019 14 hours ago, daveo said: To her, reflecting the accepted visual norm of their riding style probably is the highest quality. They call it Technical Riding, for the most part focusing on flair..... 12 hours ago, daveo said: And then you see the Aussies just sliding down the whole mountain out of control. Gain some control of yourself, jeez daveo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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