davekempmeister Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Neil Gendzwill said: Really, a quarter million is expensive? That won't even buy you a decent house in my town. That kind of money is usually a cheap franchise license, and wouldn't include the various tools, inventory and intellectual property that Bomber comprised. I was kind of thinking the same thing. Between the state of the art CNC and the inventory alone, right ? It costs that much minimum to get into a frozen yogurt franchise, these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 3 hours ago, daveo said: Yes those machines sure do sound expensive, but... The above almost sounds like the $250,000 might never be able to pay itself back. Almost like it was overpriced. But then again I'm sure someone with such business prowess like Angie would have run the figures. Shame bomber products never got traction within the world cup scene or a whole lot more may have been sold and business would have been easier for Jim & Angie. Shame because I'm sure they didn't intend to harm anyone from the outset. Based on what I saw, the company was worth every bit of that when Fin sold it. (I have been a financial analyst facilitating the buying and selling companies for over 20 years now) Mismanagement caused the value to drop. The market for these goods was relatively stable over the 3 years prior to the sale 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Neil Gendzwill said: Really, a quarter million is expensive? That won't even buy you a decent house in my town. Need about triple that for here. And that's for a beat up pos . Overseas investment makes for tough time. Good and bad though. Good because my partner and my houses went up in the past few years, bad because we both won't be buying another soon. 46 minutes ago, tex1230 said: Mismanagement caused the value to drop. Shame. That van really hurt them. 1 hour ago, davekempmeister said: It costs that much minimum to get into a frozen yogurt franchise, these days. So I guess Bomber was more profitable than a frozen yoghurt franchise, then. Edited September 6, 2018 by daveo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 7 hours ago, daveo said: Shame bomber products never got traction within the world cup scene The usual criticism of Bomber bindings among racers was that they were too stiff. Indeed the TD1 was too stiff for the equipment of the day - stiff non-metal boards, no plates, and would probably still be considered too stiff today. The original TD2 didn't go far enough to address this issue, with only a thin e-ring providing a little bit of suspension. By the time the TD3 arrived with roughly quadruple the suspension, and the Sidewinder option, it was simply too late. Some racers did adopt it, but not in droves. Most racers had established their technique and their feel on F2. Even if a Bomber could provide as much flex or more, it simply didn't feel right to them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davekempmeister Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, daveo said: So I guess Bomber was more profitable than a frozen yoghurt franchise, then. no disrespect to frozen yogurt businesses, to be sure. i know of a few in Maryland that are in the right locationlocationlocation and they are printing money. i can think of a few that are poorly placed and probably struggle month to month. a person entering into a business like Bomber would have vastly different considerations than one opening a yogurt shop. my comparison regarding the amount of money it took to get into the business was a comment about the disparity in the level of sophistication, inventory, etc. no comparison at all, is what i meant to point out. Edited September 6, 2018 by davekempmeister oops 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 46 minutes ago, davekempmeister said: no disrespect to frozen yogurt businesses, to be sure. i know of a few in Maryland that are in the right locationlocationlocation and they are printing money. i can think of a few that are poorly placed and probably struggle month to month. Friend of mine opened a candy/caramel popcorn place as a side job. Quit his regular job within a year, and now his main gig seems to be counting all the money that rolls in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnE Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 I think most of us here have met & liked Jim & Angie and want to give them the benefit of the doubt. However, I know someone who has dealt with a lot of people charged with economic crimes and they can be very charming and good at hiding their secret lives. It might be one thing if they "barrowed" the money to prop up the business temporarily with full intent to pay it back once things improved and then found themselves on a slippery debt slope. It is another thing to "barrow" money to spend on fishing trips, expensive restaurants, etc. There are probably only two people who know the true story. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruincounselor Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 I'm wondering if this threads title is being fair. Only one of the owners has, to my knowledge, been charged with any felonies. That said I would very surprised if he didn't have any knowledge that the financial situation wasn't 100% Kosher. Maybe more charges will be forthcoming? I dunno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailertrash Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 The CNC machines were never included in the sale. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertAlexander Posted September 7, 2018 Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 CNC machine price all depends on the machine that you are buying or building. There are many ways to do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted September 7, 2018 Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 12 hours ago, trailertrash said: The CNC machines were never included in the sale. How were they meant to manufacture bindings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Blanz Posted September 7, 2018 Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 Jim had a family business out east and was going to have them mfg'd there...so Fin sold the equipment (sans the bail bender) to someone in Denver. Jim's idea never went thru so they essentially placed orders for manufacture in Denver and likely paid raw material $ and labor/tooling piece $ and then assemble and ship to end user. Same situation moving forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertAlexander Posted September 7, 2018 Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 (edited) The VMC is approx 5000 to 10,000 pounds, so it is best to find one local, as shipping long distances will be too expensive. The VMC fabricated the aluminum. Again, many possibilities on a VCM or similar. Edited September 8, 2018 by RobertAlexander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west carven Posted September 7, 2018 Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 howdy please, try not to cry... sean takes a tour of fin's shop... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfLp3q1B2XA 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted September 7, 2018 Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 10 hours ago, Mike Blanz said: Jim had a family business out east and was going to have them mfg'd there...so Fin sold the equipment (sans the bail bender) to someone in Denver. Jim's idea never went thru so they essentially placed orders for manufacture in Denver and likely paid raw material $ and labor/tooling piece $ and then assemble and ship to end user. Same situation moving forward. So Jim was paying the guy who bought the Bomber CNC machines to manufacture the Bomber bindings? As in, that's the same guy in Denver you mentioned twice, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Blanz Posted September 7, 2018 Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 Yep, and the bale bender is custom so is still in Fin's shop to date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurch Posted September 8, 2018 Report Share Posted September 8, 2018 Guessing the guy in Denver is the same guy who had some leftover cants available on fleabay - he does nice work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted September 8, 2018 Report Share Posted September 8, 2018 Last I heard, Fin still has his CNC machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboarderdude Posted September 8, 2018 Report Share Posted September 8, 2018 On 9/6/2018 at 12:48 PM, Jack Michaud said: The usual criticism of Bomber bindings among racers was that they were too stiff. Indeed the TD1 was too stiff for the equipment of the day - stiff non-metal boards, no plates, and would probably still be considered too stiff today. The original TD2 didn't go far enough to address this issue, with only a thin e-ring providing a little bit of suspension. By the time the TD3 arrived with roughly quadruple the suspension, and the Sidewinder option, it was simply too late. Some racers did adopt it, but not in droves. Most racers had established their technique and their feel on F2. Even if a Bomber could provide as much flex or more, it simply didn't feel right to them. I don't even think it was an issue of timing. I raced USASA on TD3 sidewinders for 4 seasons, and have raced on F2s the past 2 seasons. When it comes to suspension and flexibility, they aren't even close. The sidewinders provide some flexibility along a single axis, but F2s will flex in whatever way you apply pressure. Ther I love the TD3 sidewinders and still have the pair I used, but they just aren't what works for racers. Fin wanted to make an indestructible product and was phenomenal at doing that but had to sacrifice flexibility to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted September 8, 2018 Report Share Posted September 8, 2018 1 hour ago, theboarderdude said: Fin wanted to make an indestructible product and was phenomenal at doing that Were they though? 6 hours ago, Mike Blanz said: Yep, and the bale bender is custom so is still in Fin's shop to date. How did Jim get his bails done, then? Still through Fin or the Denver guy? Or something else? 5 hours ago, Lurch said: Guessing the guy in Denver is the same guy who had some leftover cants available on fleabay Right, I see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Blanz Posted September 8, 2018 Report Share Posted September 8, 2018 Yeah, Jim just drove up to Silverthorne to bend a bunch of bails every so often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted September 9, 2018 Report Share Posted September 9, 2018 Is Jim an engineer? I assume so. Does anyone know if he was he planning to personally design the next generation of Bomber products? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted September 9, 2018 Report Share Posted September 9, 2018 2 hours ago, daveo said: Is Jim an engineer? No. Jim and Angie are completely separate from Bomber after the bankruptcy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted September 9, 2018 Report Share Posted September 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, Corey said: No. Jim and Angie are completely separate from Bomber after the bankruptcy. Right. So if he isn't an engineer, how was he going to develop the next generation of Bomber products and keep the business going? Does anyone know what the plan was? I'm just curious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeW Posted September 9, 2018 Report Share Posted September 9, 2018 I'm kinda see a blur since I got sentimental when somebody posted a youtube URL with Sean/Donek visiting Fin/Bomber. I jsut realize that was almost a decade ago. My, how time flies. I miss visiting Fin's shop every so often just for the heck of it. On 9/8/2018 at 1:17 AM, theboarderdude said: I don't even think it was an issue of timing. I raced USASA on TD3 sidewinders for 4 seasons, and have raced on F2s the past 2 seasons. When it comes to suspension and flexibility, they aren't even close. The sidewinders provide some flexibility along a single axis, but F2s will flex in whatever way you apply pressure. Ther I love the TD3 sidewinders and still have the pair I used, but they just aren't what works for racers. Fin wanted to make an indestructible product and was phenomenal at doing that but had to sacrifice flexibility to do so. I've been out of racing for so long that I'm completely out of touch. I still use TD2. I'm gonna have to look into F2 bindings and check it out if I can get a chance to do so. Thanks for the tidbits, it's much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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