daveo Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 I'm THIS CLOSE *looks through a small gap between thumb and pointer* to buying a pair of point 951. Just wondering if I should go down my usual route of Palau overlaps or perhaps try foam or cork injected liners... Anyone here had experience with these? Maybe someone has used both and could compare? Good experiences? Bad ones? Perhaps ones that didn't fit and you hated them and threw them in the trash and then lit the trash on fire? I'm interested to hear about any experiences with these before I go and pay someone to blow their foam all over my feet. -DD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drschwartz Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 I bought Surefoot injection molded liners two year ago. Best equipment decision I have ever made. Happy feet?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted March 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, drschwartz said: I bought Surefoot injection molded liners two year ago. Best equipment decision I have ever made. Happy feet?? Hey Doc, may I ask what liners you used before that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapos Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 I have upz foam injected liners which work great. I did the injection 3 years ago in my upz rc10 shells. The liner has approx 130 days on it, and still is the best liner I ever had. What's more I changed the shells to 951 and I still keep using the upz foam liner from my old shells and it works great! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drschwartz Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 Stock UPZs, Intuition, and Black Diamond. All worked ok but my right foot is significantly different than my left, and the Surefoots have been better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted March 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, slapos said: I have upz foam injected liners which work great. I did the injection 3 years ago in my upz rc10 shells. The liner has approx 130 days on it, and still is the best liner I ever had. What's more I changed the shells to 951 and I still keep using the upz foam liner from my old shells and it works great! Interesting experience! Good to know. Thanks. I never knew UPZ did foam injected liners, though... 1 minute ago, drschwartz said: Stock UPZs, Intuition, and Black Diamond. All worked ok but my right foot is significantly different than my left, and the Surefoots have been better. I didn't even try with my stock UPZ, they were too wrong for my particular foot. Sounds like you've had a good experience with Surefoot. Thanks for sharing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 (edited) Sidas injected in my .900. I chose the softer version vs race version. It is my second liners i ever got after trying race version in my Raichle SB121 at the time.. The race versions are way too stiff and the foam tight for freecarving imo unless you are ready to open all buckles after each ride. The softer version allows for some foam flex, and if you do the injection, do it using a bit thicker socks than what you have usually, this will give a bit of extra thin room. The great thing about injected liners, is that the foam gets in every small areas where heatable versions would not go ( behind ankles etc) allowing for much more precise hold. This, plus also some custom plastic modifications on the shell of the .900 ( expanding in ankle zones for me) allow for a very comfy ride: recommended Also they last very long! Edited March 8, 2018 by nils Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailertrash Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 (edited) I have a Nordica foam injected liner in my T700's. The liners have lasted two shells at this point. For me, compared to the stock (T700) liners, a smaller shell size is more comfortable in the foam liners. I would make sure you are in the smallest shell you can stand before getting foamed. The fit is of course perfect. In the Nordica liner there's not much material around the toes. They can me cold. Edited March 8, 2018 by trailertrash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 TT is on the money. I have the foam UPZs I really like the fit of the The liner. Don’t like the boot. Theres something up with the UPZs and the ramp I think. I tried footbeds with no ramp and it seemed to help a little but not enough. Either way, I didn’t have enough time to dedicate to the boots to try to make them work perfectly.... I suspect 1.5 or 2 degrees of toe lift would do it...... I’m lazy and have too little on snow time these days mess around with that. back on topic, yeah, injection liners are kick ass but there’s a some caveats. You can push too much in, they have NO give but do fit perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 I have Conformable liners and they rock. Third set of shells and hundreds of days and they still work great. Had them fit in Burton Fire and they are now in Stratos Pro and work pretty well. My first Zipfits were great and lasted for several hundred days as well. They next two I couldn't even get a season out of them. One was soft foam and one was cork. They Surefoot liners were so painful I only rode them for about two hours. No padding went behind the heel so every toeside turn the heel bone pushed hard against the shell. They say they will redo them and I will try that out this next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st_lupo Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 1 hour ago, carvedog said: I have Conformable liners and they rock. Third set of shells and hundreds of days and they still work great. Had them fit in Burton Fire and they are now in Stratos Pro and work pretty well. My first Zipfits were great and lasted for several hundred days as well. They next two I couldn't even get a season out of them. One was soft foam and one was cork. They Surefoot liners were so painful I only rode them for about two hours. No padding went behind the heel so every toeside turn the heel bone pushed hard against the shell. They say they will redo them and I will try that out this next week. This exact thing is happening to me with the stock liners in my rc10s. I’ve been suffering through it like a brave soldier for three years but this season I’ve grown a gianormous callus on my heel that just starts screaming at me if I even look at my boots. Looks like I should start looking at aftermarket liners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 (edited) Injection liners have been around longer than snowboarding nothing to fear done correctly they should provide the ultimate comfort. My experience is from 40 years ago. To use the old cliche "Been there done that ! " Edited March 8, 2018 by lowrider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muthahucker Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 Ive used Surefoot injected ski boot liners on a couple sets of ski boots, should be the same for snowboard boots. Best money ever spent on boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ursle Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 So, It seems Sidas "got" Conformable away from Surefoot? Now Surefoot sells it's own liner and it's not comparable to the Conformable? Pity, I got my Conformable's at Surefoot and they need a refresh. Ah, Nordica has a good liner. Foamed, custom liners with custom Orthotics are the best tool. Have Zipfit's, good heel hold, not the same overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 ^Sidas is (or was) the manufacturer/distributor of the classic Conform'able liner. Surefoot most likely developed their own, or has Sidas produce a bespoke version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 4 hours ago, st_lupo said: This exact thing is happening to me with the stock liners in my rc10s. I’ve been suffering through it like a brave soldier for three years but this season I’ve grown a gianormous callus on my heel that just starts screaming at me if I even look at my boots. Looks like I should start looking at aftermarket liners. Might be the liner. Might be a mismatch between the shape of your heel and the boot shell. Might be a rear foot canting issue, might be a rear binding heel height issue. Might also be you're levering too hard against the boot tongue, and/or you're flexing into a 'fulcrum' rather than an 'area' of contact at the boot tongue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdifan_2003 Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 Great thread . So, in the US, where can one get Sidas liners? Preferably a good bootfitting place. Looking at Surefoot site, what current liners people are using in our hardboots? Thanks! Millen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 NORTH AMERICA Sidas Technologies NA Inc. 3 – 3531 Viking Way Richmond BC, V6V 1W1 PH: +1604732 9144 FAX: +1604270 1906 info-us@sidas.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdifan_2003 Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 , thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted March 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 22 hours ago, nils said: Sidas injected in my .900. I chose the softer version vs race version. It is my second liners i ever got after trying race version in my Raichle SB121 at the time.. The race versions are way too stiff and the foam tight for freecarving imo unless you are ready to open all buckles after each ride. The softer version allows for some foam flex, and if you do the injection, do it using a bit thicker socks than what you have usually, this will give a bit of extra thin room. Ah this is good to know. Actually, I personally already unbuckle my boots at the end of each run. It might be my OCD kicking in but I think if I don't keep them compressed for the entire day (unbuckling at the bottom of each run means I leave them unbuckled maybe 60-70% of the time), then the liner will last longer. I also found that years ago, before I had Palau liners, the liners would pack out slightly through the day and I'd have to retighten my boots. That was on softboots though. 20 hours ago, trailertrash said: I have a Nordica foam injected liner in my T700's. The liners have lasted two shells at this point. For me, compared to the stock (T700) liners, a smaller shell size is more comfortable in the foam liners. I would make sure you are in the smallest shell you can stand before getting foamed. They definitely sound durable. Also, I'm already in the upper limit of the Shell C in .951, so I'm going to roll with those. 20 hours ago, bobdea said: I have the foam UPZs I really like the fit of the The liner. Don’t like the boot. Theres something up with the UPZs and the ramp I think. Yeah there is definitely some angle on that UPZ ramp! 19 hours ago, carvedog said: They Surefoot liners were so painful I only rode them for about two hours. No padding went behind the heel so every toeside turn the heel bone pushed hard against the shell. They say they will redo them and I will try that out this next week. Interesting, something I'll make my bootfitter aware of. 17 hours ago, st_lupo said: This exact thing is happening to me with the stock liners in my rc10s. I’ve been suffering through it like a brave soldier for three years but this season I’ve grown a gianormous callus on my heel that just starts screaming at me if I even look at my boots. Looks like I should start looking at aftermarket liners. I feel the same when I look at my UPZ stock liners, that's why I promptly swapped them out for Palau overlaps. Wew so nice. 14 hours ago, lowrider said: Injection liners have been around longer than snowboarding nothing to fear done correctly they should provide the ultimate comfort. My experience is from 40 years ago. To use the old cliche "Been there done that ! " Great, exactly what I want to hear 13 hours ago, muthahucker said: Ive used Surefoot injected ski boot liners on a couple sets of ski boots, should be the same for snowboard boots. Best money ever spent on boots. Surefoot seem to have great reviews, I'll see if I can look into sourcing for these or Sidas. I have a feeling my bootfitter uses Sidas, since my custom footbeds were Sidas also. 13 hours ago, ursle said: So, It seems Sidas "got" Conformable away from Surefoot? Now Surefoot sells it's own liner and it's not comparable to the Conformable? Pity, I got my Conformable's at Surefoot and they need a refresh. Ah, Nordica has a good liner. Foamed, custom liners with custom Orthotics are the best tool. Have Zipfit's, good heel hold, not the same overall. I've read some less than favourable reviews about recent zipfit's. Not sure if it's a thing or not, but I'll try to get Sidas or possibly Surefoot ones I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted March 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 Thanks for all the contribution / help in this thread so far, it has really helped! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st_lupo Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 14 hours ago, Beckmann AG said: Might be the liner. Might be a mismatch between the shape of your heel and the boot shell. Might be a rear foot canting issue, might be a rear binding heel height issue. Might also be you're levering too hard against the boot tongue, and/or you're flexing into a 'fulcrum' rather than an 'area' of contact at the boot tongue. That is interesting feedback and I'll try to be a bit more aware of what is really pressing on my heel while riding. I'm not sure I quite understand what is meant with the last point of "or you're flexing into a 'fulcrum' rather than an 'area' of contact at the boot tongue"? Also I posted a couple of videos from this year to the Videos section in the off chance that something wonky is identifiable in my stance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 Does your leg pressure the top of the boot tongue which will act like a fulcrum point the reaction point being your heel ? Ideally your whole lower leg should be equally in contact with the whole liner. That's why injection molded are ideal if done correctly all areas are in contact equally or without pressure points . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 1 hour ago, st_lupo said: I'm not sure I quite understand what is meant with the last point of "or you're flexing into a 'fulcrum' rather than an 'area' of contact at the boot tongue"? More or less what lowrider said. Use a Booster powerstrap, for starters. Also I posted a couple of videos from this year to the Videos section in the off chance that something wonky is identifiable in my stance. Veni, Vidi, Colloqui Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colozeus Posted March 9, 2018 Report Share Posted March 9, 2018 So which surefoot model liner have you guys used? Curious in case i decide to go this route Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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