SWriverstone Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 So the family came to Mt. Bachelor today---my first time carving (or trying to) this year, and first time at a resort in the west. Our timing was lousy from my perspective---we've arrived in the middle of a big winter storm. Snowed like crazy all day today---and winds were blowing up to 50mph. Near whiteout conditions at times. My first run, down a blue, was a disaster. :-( Aside from not knowing the resort at all and the flat, whiteout conditions (zero ability to see any detail on the slope), there was 18-24" of loose powder covering the slopes, and it was piled up everywhere. Coming from years of carving on groomed, icy, artificial snow slopes in the east, these conditions just kicked my ass! I felt like I had no clue what I was doing, and my Donek Freecarve just dove beneath the surface constantly. I probably fell 10 times on my way down, and even getting up was exhausting. (I actually found myself wishing for icy boilerplate!) I'm here 2 more days, and the forecast calls for another 2 feet of snow tomorrow, with winds at 40-70mph. Any advice on how to salvage this and have a good time is much appreciated! I did bring my freeride (non-Alpine) board, which I haven't ridden in a decade. Should I leave the Donek Freecarve in the car and break out the softboots? (If so, I wouldn't know whether to ride duck-stance or carving stance?) Or should I keep hurling myself into the deep stuff in hard boots until I start learning how to ride in it? I'm dying to ride some nice packed-powder corduroy...but I know that's not happening on this trip! Scott "No Longer In West Virginia!" (posted from a hotel in Bend, Oregon). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Go softies go duck and don't feel like you've sold out. The boiler plate is always there when you get home. Keep drinking water ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucasgo Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Fast advice.. go with the softie as it likely has higher nose lift. Low angles but not duck. Set bindings back toward tail. Or, check with rental shop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Riding an alpine board in deep snow is a bit like riding a road bike on training rollers. There's really nothing to lean on, so you figure out pretty quick whether or not your gear is configured properly, and how smooth you ride. One of the common problems for those accustomed to hard snow is the habitual need to hammer against a firm base. Rather than do that, become more sensitive to the sensation of the board bending/deflecting under your feet, and make sure that you don't shove it's head under the water on every turn. Its about finesse/dexterity more so than power. Similarly, you can't simply 'lean into it' unless you are gliding very fast. Instead, ease your way into the turn with smaller movements of the lower extremities, rather than just dumping your hip into it and expecting the snow to support you. Loosening the cuff buckles of the rear boot may help, as well as setting the bindings back a notch or two. You may also want to go with a more upright, shorter in the fall line turning mode, rather than longer GS type turns. Especially as it gets chopped/bumped up. You may be better off on the softies, but there's no need to go negative splay, unless you plan to slash and burn like a buccaneer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrest Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 One of the best pieces of advice I was given was at an instructor clinic on Mt Hood, I'd been teaching in softies all season and I was riding plates come hell, high water or as it turned out 18"of heavy powder. There is a tendency in powder to try and stand on the back foot, this is exhausting and ultimately counter productive, my clinician suggested thinking of it as a lightening and softness in the front foot as opposed to a transition rearward and pressuring the rear foot. Give it a try if you go back out on hardboots, its remarkable how much difference HOW we thing of a particular motion effects the results. Best of luck and I am envious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keenan Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 I would suggest going to Powderhouse on Century Drive or calling them as soon as they open (8:am I think) and renting a powder board. Or be at the mountain to rent at 8:30 from the demo shop. It's going to be busy. A free ride board will definitely work better than a carver, but a newer powder board will allow you more runs with less effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) Oh. Well obviously, rent a powder board. A fish, or something like that. I'm riding the same storm snow and having a ball, I just take my hard boots and bindings and use them on powder boards. It's powder, you see. That's what powder boards are for. It's not about the bindings or the boots, it's the narrow piste boards which cause the problem. I was on a Landlord today which ripped in the conditions (video to follow if I can get it uploaded). Reight, here you go: Edited December 21, 2015 by philw 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aracan Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 I have a bunch of man-made-only slopes here, with nothing on the side. Wanna trade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted December 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Thx for the replies everyone---and awesome vid Philw! Was that at Bachelor? (Don't remember seeing any helicopters there...) And were you riding in hardboots or soft? You are now officially my inspiration, LOL I think today's plan will be to give my freeride board a try (although I honestly don't know whether it's a freeride or freestyle board? But it's far wider than my carving board. What I'm still not sure of is whether I should put my plates on the freeride board? Or just ride in softboots with similar angles? Depending on how today goes, I might rent a powder board for tomorrow. Stay tuned for another report on my powder flailing! Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 What I'm still not sure of is whether I should put my plates on the freeride board? Or just ride in softboots with similar angles? Depending on how today goes, I might rent a powder board for tomorrow. Either way. Plates on a freeride board work great, and that's how I ride pow. Particularly if you've been hardboot exclusive for years, that's probably the path of least resistance. Lots of folks here say that softboots give you better board feel in powder, but personally I just find it easier to use hardboots for everything, and haven't noticed that I'm missing out on much. If you can get your hands on a powder board, that would be pretty fun, but maybe not an absolute requirement. BTW, you should get up early one day and hike the cinder cone that's at looker's right when standing at the base of Pine Marten! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Yeah, for the fresh morning POW I'd rent a POW board and put your plates on it......but I've also run my Virus UFC in up to 2ft of powder late in the day when the groomer runs get to be busted crud/bumped up ................once you commit and get up to speed you can carve/slice the crud/bumped up grommer runs like butter................just another option if you want to get your carve on with what ya brought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Send that snow to Colorado. We'll both be happy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 I'm with Phil, rent a pow board. As to whether you would prefer to rock soft or hard boots, well, that is ultimately up to you. And John, it's coming our way tonight... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted December 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Latest from Bachelor: pretty much the whole mountain is shut down due to raging high winds, so we're skipping today (had a good time with the tots just hauling them up the hill a short distance and letting them ski down). I did one short hike-up run with my softboots and was not into it---they actually weren't as comfortable as my hardboots, and softboot bindings were totally Rube Goldberg after being used to plates. I might rent a powder board for tomorrow, but either way I'm definitely going with plates on the freeride board! Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allee Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 If your hard boots are more comfortable than your softies, then definitely put plates on the freeride board. Get out there early before it gets tracked to hell and tough to ride in, point it straight downhill, keep your speed up, make short turns and have a blast. Don't try and carve, just stay light on your feet and neutral on the board, and you'll track right over the top. Powder days are the best. Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Don't try and carve, just stay light on your feet and neutral on the board, and you'll track right over the top. +1, look at Phil's video again. He's never committing super hard to the turn, just biffing it from side to side. The pow won't let you go too fast, just point it down and get planing. BTW you can do it on an Alpine board, just some of them are better suited than others. My Nirvana eats up chop, loose pow, whatever: just put the pedal down and have fun. Haven't had it in really heavy west coast snow or bottomless pow though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 .... He's never committing super hard to the turn, just biffing it from side to side. The pow won't let you go too fast, just point it down and get planing. BTW you can do it on an Alpine board, just some of them are better suited than others. My Nirvana eats up chop, loose pow, whatever: just put the pedal down and have fun. Haven't had it in really heavy west coast snow or bottomless pow though. I hadn't thought about that, but I think you're right: it's a different type of turn, you don't (or it does not feel) that you put the board on edge in the same way as riding piste on a race board, you kind of smear it left or right, then at the end it's banked over so you can push off it (carve it perhaps), but it's not the same turn, really. I did ride heli powder on a slalom board once, and it can be done... but it was damn hard and I never did it again. Actually if it's deep and there's no piste involved then a Fish would be where I'd start - those are "day saver" boards in that if you get people (mostly on softies) who can't hack de powder, then that often will save them. If you look at the design of those it's clearly radically different from most boards people like me would ride on piste. (Oh yeah, we had really deep stuff today ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 I love hard boots and mine are much more comfortable than my soft setup. I haven't had Hbs on in 9 days or so now. For soft snow you have a much easier time in soft. And easier to suck up the chop on toeside than in Hbs. Good luck. It will be deep in Sun Valley tomorrow. Taking the big gun. 185 Frontier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger jr Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 Make sure your boots don't have too much forward lean in them so your not loading the nose too much. You want your setup to be conducive to moving your weight fore -aft easily. Flexy bindings help too. I ride hard boots in the pow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 I hadn't thought about that, but I think you're right: it's a different type of turn, you don't (or it does not feel) that you put the board on edge in the same way as riding piste on a race board, you kind of smear it left or right, then at the end it's banked over so you can push off it (carve it perhaps), but it's not the same turn, really. It's not even close to the same turn, in my opinion. You simply cannot put the same kind of power and energy into it as you can when you have hardpack. You need to stay loose and flowy, adapt to however you might get thrown around by what's underneath, and just try to feel it. Frankly I find it way easier than carving, and also way easier than skis (or at least, the skis I last were on in the 80s). In soft snow, the board feels natural. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted December 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 Great info---and it makes perfect sense that you can't really "carve" in deep loose stuff (which is why I was such debris the first day). It's worth mentioning that if 99% of your experience is on icy boilerplate in the Mid-Atlantic region, trying to ride in powder is pretty much a completely different sport--and I feel like I'm starting from scratch. Very humbling! (Like paddling whitewater the first time when all you've ever done is paddle flatwater your whole life.) My plates are on my freeride board now---so I'm ready to try again with that setup tomorrow! (My board is a circa 2007 Rossignol Premier 159; it's really wide, so I suspect it ought to do reasonably well in powder.) Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 Seems like we have one or two of these threads each year. First, come on up to Mt. Baker and we can have some "lessons"! Ragin' up here now. Now, on a serious note. 1) Get thee a decent sized freeride board- preferably with rocker of some sort and/or taper. Those two will help you the most. I've got a N.S. Premier F1 in a 170 that will do most everything you need. Burton Fish/Malalo etc. type boards work well too. I'm backing off a bit on the go big or go home stuff, mostly because of my knees. And trees. Use the hard boots, back off the angles some, I'm 20-30 rear and 35-45 front. Mostly rear foot across the board edge to edge and front wherever is comfortable. Loosen up the boots a bit. Loosen up yourself a bit, too. Use slash turns for speed checking-rooster tails are fun! Powder is just a different kind of flow-once you have some speed you can do a lot more than survive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crucible Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 When I moved from icy New England slopes to the Pacific Northwest 30 years ago, all of the snow sliding experince I had was on boilerplate. The best advice on how to adjust to riding powder was an instructor telling me to, "Forget about thinking that you're riding ON the snow surface. In powder, you have to think about how you're riding IN and THROUGH the snow, like it's ultra lite water." Which it is exactly like, of course.... Geo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted December 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 Well, it's been an experience. I put my plates on my freeride board and rode that way yesterday. It helped---by late yesterday I was getting some decent carves and feeling like I knew what I was doing. But that was also because the snow backed off and the slopes got more packed-down. This morning we arrived to find another foot of powder had fallen overnight. I took the lift up to do a run down a blue/green combination. Deep powder at the top and the side thirds of the slopes. I barreled into it, tried to stay loose, and promptly fell. It took 5-7 minutes of exhausting flailing to get back up. After another minute or two of enjoying the silent gliding through powder I fell again...and spent 10 minutes flailing to get up again. Recovering from falls took the fun out of it. I know the only way to get good at it is to keep doing it, but it's definitely frustrating (at age 53 with years of carving experience) to feel like a total beginner again. :-( Maybe some who've carved on ice their whole lives take to pow like a fish to water...but not me. I'm still dreaming of acres of perfect corduroy, such as I experienced at SES several years ago in Aspen. Granted, many Mt. Bachelor regulars have assured me that Bachelor is definitely not always covered in deep powder---and that sometimes it's nothing but corduroy. So I'll come back and keep trying! I'll give powder another chance...but I don't think it's a stretch to call it a different sport, and not unlike the difference between mountain biking and road biking (and while some bikers do both, roadies tend to stay roadies and MTBers tend to stay MTBers!). Scott 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted December 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 Forgot to add to my post above: if anyone has tips for how to quickly get up again after falling in deep powder, I'd love to hear them! Because it seems to me to be a bit like getting up on a slalom water ski after you've dropped the tow rope and the boat is gone. (Damn near impossible in deep powder!) Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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