On Edge Style – OES

[jacopodotti]

@ Fortune have you tried to speak with the company about this?

[Alexey]

The board from pictures had been broken in Russian carving session in end of the last year.

Rider was 95kg what is much more for this board.

But. After this case we had changed construction for avoiding problems like this.

All our boards have 15 months warranty and case of the picture is the warranty case (change to new one).

//board at picture: we produc_ed_ boards _only_ with expensive carbon without any fiberglass inside. /Carbon - some tens EUROs for one piece, inside board of the picture 4 carbon layers. Fiberglass - 2 EUROs for all pieces inside board/ It was cause of the problem. If a rider doing parasitical move his foot then inserts will move out. Much more boot size & metal binding - much more fast inserts move out. This is a typical problem. But we are doing boards what live under like riding.

Yes. Sometimes boards have crash & delaminating but this is warranty case's.

P.S. Board of the picture was TEST board what had been sent as FREE at russian carving session with other our models.

We did not get money for this board.

Edited March 1, 2014 by Alexey

[Alexey]

About edges:

Frecarve boards: -2

Race boards: -4

Children race boards: -2

Russian national team ask do not sharp them edges and they get our board without sharping. It is not a problem for us.

Photo from cup of russia what was some days ago.

Edited March 1, 2014 by Alexey

[BlueB]

About edges:

Frecarve boards: -2

Race boards: -4

Children race boards: -2

Alexey, thanks for clarifying about edges.

[BlueB]

FortuneTeller, why do you pretend to be from Colorado, if you broke the board in Russia?

Or, if the board wasn't yours, why not clarify the situation, before flaming the company?

[FortuneTeller]

They combine over 40 different hi-tech laminates (Carbon, Kevlar, Vectran, Titanal, etc.) to create the best combo for the application!

How exactly cheap materials in Bulat? Vertically laminated wood core, all carbon, insert monoblocks...

Boris, people have the right to true and objective information.

The facts speak for themselves:

1. New board was broken due to faulty design and lack of glass reinforcements.

2. There were no Kevlar, Vectran, Aramid, Twaron or other unusual fibers inside. This board is a SWOARD replica without glass and ATC-Matrix. Like fake Rolex, you know.

3. After an incident one could tear off the topsheet by hands. It wasn't glued properly.

4. Expensive and high-quality cores are made of thin hardwood stripes and look like this:

Of course, they have "fixed" everything, you just have to belive. But don't forget that their warranty doesn't cover your legs.

Compared to Kessler, SL 162 is damper, more stable and tracks better. It has better edge hold, but that could be effect of the superior tune that the board came with.

Right answer is "86 degrees".

[BlueB]

Yes, people absolutely have the right to information.

But again, was that your board, you broke it in Russia and studied it afterwards? Why Colorado in your profile?

Lots of assumptions in your posts, in the case that wasn't your board, and you are not a board designer. If it was your board, tell us. If you were a board designer, tell us who... People have right to full information, don't they?

I didn't design or disect any of these and do not plan to do so, unless I broke one. So, I'll let Alexey take over the technical discussion.

As for the Bulat, I'll try to brake it tomorrow... Or have some fun...

And for the record: I do not have any commercial interest in OES company. I was asked to test ride them and write uneditted comments.

[BlueB]

Ok Carvers,

We'll have some light snow tonight and in the morning. If they groomed that in the early morning, should be pretty good! So, I'll go ahead and bring the demo boards. If it turned to a pow day, ah well...

The boards will be by the Eagle Chair bottom hut. I'll have a lesson to teach 9-11am, probably of the same chair. Roy will be there testing the boards too - just tell him what you taking. I'll join the show from 11am.

Gary to bring the SL 162 back, for other interested people to try.

See you tomorrow.

[Alexey]

to FortuneTeller: Please say your real name, city & your personal relations with mentioned board.

Im never not declared inside Bulat boards next material: kevlar, vectran, titanal, twaron....

I said only about carbon.

+

Do you know what will give addition to a board kevlar ? Or vectran ?

We _had_ the cause for skipping glass reinforcements in the Board (first Bulat series).

= boards without glass have more perfect ride. Fiberglass is kill the ride.

But life compel us making compromise production. Now our Bulat boards have Fiberglass as reinforcements (for avoid .... posts at forums).

We do not see sense use thin hardwood stripes in our boards. Our _tests_ seen unnecessary it.

We started produce boards in May, 2013.

Next 6 months we spent for test our production. Over 200 prototypes in the same geometry but with other material.

We finded combinations good for ride.

From October, 2013 we started produce retail production and continue our researching.

The aim of our researching: board ride.

Only board ride.

We use in our production 6 types of woodcores from OTHER suppliers.

We use over 40 ! types of composite fibers and over 20 types fiberglass. We use 4 types of epoxy resin from _expensive_ and famous suppliers like Huntsman (u reading/ed russian forum and seen my pictures with Huntsman barrels and not only with Huntsman). Our investments in the factory in given moment is over $2M.

Not all is perfect of course. But we started less than one year ago and we finded/ing our way for boards production.

U'r from russian and your very good know who from russian riders work in our team. You know about them ride level. You know about my ride level. You know the story about me & Choc Technology...

You reading discussions at russian's forum about our boards and know opinion russian riders about our production.

Maybe you will post ALL this information at this forum too. No ? Ok.

What about your real name ?

Do not hesitate write it.

[Mellow Yellow]

[b0ardski]

Until the 2 post tarot reader shows us how much better his boards (unbreakable tanks?) are, I'll take Boris's word for how the OES ride, I trust his opinion.

200 versions of the same geometry? you go Alexey!

Edited March 2, 2014 by b0ardski

[Corey]

Every company has had failures, especially early on when they're figuring things out. There are two funny stories going on here:

- One guy that's supposedly from Colorado has intimate details about a board that supposedly broke in Russia.

- One guy that's supposedly in Russia that also makes boards in Spain.

I'm curious as to the real story. FortuneTeller is the aggressor, and I'm not sure why.

[b.free]

I believe, this guy is not from Colorado...

And I definitely believe, there are no OES products in CO.

Otherwise, I would know!

[snowmatic]

Wow, OES ?

Just some more 1:1 outline copies of Kessler The Alpine boards and Swoard Extremecarvers?

The big invention is now adding inserts for mounting plates on Swoard copies.

Some days ago we had Olympic games. Did we saw any copy-paste snowboards on top there.

Just NO, we just saw only genuine boards. Kessler won again every gold medal on gate courses. Pumpkin, which offer also raceboards, won on halfpipe.

There is Kessler, there is Pumpkin, there is Swoard. All are genuine brands. They didn't invest over $2M for copy any other boards. They just make what they are able to do, on a thin budget. They just shape and build genuine snowboards for function and fun on snow.

Alpine board marked is now on poor developments. Bevore the Years 2000-2002 we had so many brands which offers exciting boards for extreme carving, hard carving, super carving ... . They have been labeld as/for EC, extrem carver, supercarver and so on too. Every brand defined it by a own shape, different sidecut, different width, different flex pattern ... .

After ISF was bankrupt, raceboard market is broken in rapid and Extremecarvers / Swoard seems to be born then.

And because of less and less brands had any good idea to invent new good shapes, since then only copy-pasters are on progress now. Take Swoard as an example. How many board makers try to copy the Swoard idea? It's unbelievable! Take now Kessler and how many board makers try to copy the KST idea? It's unbelievable too.

For every new board concept the mother of success remains on riding skill. Many of genuine board makers are high level snowboarding instructors too. Copy-pasters will never be able to invent good boards, just because of poor riding skill. So we will see than also poor quality on shape and manufactoring. We saw on OES boards here on thread a rip-out insert section. Thanks for sharing this. I never ever saw before such things, even not from Chineese Made cheap nameless boards out from supermarket stores.

Genuine board makers don't define edge hold of the boards by -4° edge bevel. They define edge hold by the shape. So edge hold on ice starts at 0° (for general snowboarding -1° and -0.5° on base side are recommendable) and ends at -3° for very aggressive ski slalom racing, tight slalom snowboard courses. Anything more than -1° remains in the hand of end-users to tune it.

Maybe different volks need different shapes and boards on different mountains. Thats o.k. So they are welcome to make their own shapes for their demands and they should stop copy or make bad copies of any genuine brands.

[RicHard]

...copy-paste...

More than just "sometime", in the whole human history things went in a different way:

1) someone copy something

2) he modify it, trying to improve it

3) he fails

then he repeats 2) and 3) until he gets the improvement.

:)

The edge between "copy" and "copy with some improvement" is not so sharp.

I saw even some SG boards under the feet of very good athletes but... aren't such board using decamber/rocker/titanal/multiple-radius/etcetcetc, that someone else used to put (before of him) into his board?

I would not be so sure about the fact that, who invented something, will ever be the best in what he invented.

And... this is a very good news, making many people able to build innovations basing their progresses on (already) existing innovations. ;)

Just another point of view... ;)

[Alexey]

to snowmatic:

Seen you our boards ? Not ? What talk about ?

I give you ANY model of our boards as free if you publish where our board(s) the same kessler, virus, swoard.

Come on for searching !

Russian national racing team have -4 sharping.

I do not see a field talk with you about this topic. Are you FIS racer ? Please post here your name & FIS code.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Alexey

[Alexey]

There are two funny stories going on here:

- One guy that's supposedly in Russia that also makes boards in Spain.

We've never hided our face. Yes, our factory is located in Spain. But the owners are from Russia.

I'm one of the owners of the the OnEdge Style company. There are links on my old videos:

http://carving.onedge.ru/Video/sunset.wmv

http://carving.onedge.ru/Video/Volen_March_18_2010.wmv

http://carving.onedge.ru/Video/Treadle.wmv

Now we're planning to make new video with our snowboards.

Why did we organize our snowboard manufacturing in Spain?… Why not in Russia.. This is the typical question. Our main goal is producing very good and high quality Alpine snowboards. It's logical, that this goal means availability good and high quality materials. But in Russia we can't buy special high quality materials for our snowboard production. Because,Russia doesn't have such materials. In Europe, we can buy high quality plastic, special epoxy resins, edges, woodcores, titanal etc easily. It’s absolutely unreal idea to buy the same materials in Russia. If we've imported these materials from Europe to Russia, it would have made the cost price of each board more and more expensive than you can imagine. If we had organized our snowboard manufacturing in Russia the shipment of materials for production and especially customs duties would have made the cost price of each board impossibly high and unprofitable for buyers. And we decided to build our production in Spain. So, this is the reason why people with Russians names have snowboard manufacturing in Europe. Now we have excellent and talented international team. Our workers are from Spain, France, Ukraine, Russia. Also we successfully cooperate with professional engineers-snowboard-builders from Canada, France and Switzerland.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Alexey

[FortuneTeller]

Wow, OES ?

Just some more 1:1 outline copies of Kessler The Alpine boards and Swoard Extremecarvers?

The big invention is now adding inserts for mounting plates on Swoard copies.

........................

Maybe different volks need different shapes and boards on different mountains. Thats o.k. So they are welcome to make their own shapes for their demands and they should stop copy or make bad copies of any genuine brands.

The Adventures of Captain Copy-Paste began about ten years ago, after Sword left the Duret factory. Our enterprising hero somehow gained access to original molds and began producing and selling OES... sorry... Duret Alpine - a model similar to Swoard as two peas in a pod:

The only "innovation" was its length - it became 1 centimeter longer :)

Production quality was awful: boards suffered from delamination of topsheet and base layers, inserts were often pulled out, most of the boards were broken during the next three years. But who cares? These boards were cheap.

As for innovations, there's no chance to get them. Our hero doesn't ride using an extremecarving style (due to ignorance and for health reasons), he doesn't communicate with top EC-riders and he has no idea what the modern freecarving is. He's stuck in the 90s and all he can do is to copy an elder SWOARD-inspired-by-WildDuck'95-shape.

The same story with Kessler. No racing skills. Shapes and flex patterns of OES SL/GS boards are close to original.

He proclaimed himself the new Virus but let's get real. His "talented" team is not even able to glue a board properly, trim and bevel edges well and grind the base precisely. Finishing quality is below average. No need to talk about engineering.

The cosmetic finishing touches are a notch bellow Coiler/Prior, but that doesn't bother me a single bit.

[carvingchef]

originally posted by FortuneTeller

SWOARD-inspired-by-WildDuck'95-shape.

It almost sounds like you are saying the Swoard was copied from the WildDuck'95-shape.

Here is a link for a Wild Duck "Knifer TD" from 94/95 season so you can compare pictures. You might be right, the Swoard looks exactly like a copy of the Wild Duck.

http://www.snowboardmuseum.de/board/show/id/495

Edited March 3, 2014 by carvingchef

[Masahiko]

Hi , I am Masahiko from Japan .

Alexey gave me email to ask me test their boards . He told me he is sending test boards to me .

I have wide range of friends who are recreational carvers and serious racers .

Reading this articles , I am really looking forward to testing OES boards in this season .

Boards happen to break . It is regular , not rare. It is only an accident due to riding failure.

I hope their boards quality and performance are both excellent.

[Cousin of Beagle]

Was really grippy on the frozen hardpack on Thursday night and Friday morning. It never let go. I found out later it has 86° edge. No wonder! It feels more aggressive than my Prior 4WD 169 with 88° edge tuning. The board initiates a turn quickly. Feels hooky compared to the Prior 4WD 169. The skinnier waist width of the OES SL 162 (195 mm waist) only feels a little smaller than the Prior 4WD (214 mm waist), with respect to my recreational riding style. I did not have any issues going from the 4WD to the SL 162. Board was firmly planted in the snow, and didn't bounce out when the surface got a little bumpy.

Edited March 3, 2014 by Cousin of Beagle
let it snow

[slopestar]

Crazy the poo being flung over here???

From an outsider perspective...

1.Some body makes boards/sends them to be tested/reviews are submitted

2.Hater jumps in and flings poo

3.Some love/some neutral/some questionable hate

4.How about sending me free boards and i will ride the poo out of them and if I like them, I will tell everyone how sweet they are?!

4a. Please make and include some freestyle and BX boards with no return shipping info. Thanks!

[Puddy Tat]

Yeah it's a little crazy. We operate in an environment that is "copy the winning model". I'm not evening referring to snowboarding here, this is the model used in business. You succeed through innovation, continual development of product, and keeping your customers happy. Businesses come and businesses go. Cell phones replaced landlines, Windows copied the original Mac OS. The reality is that there is no expectation here that a board shape or design is a sustainable competitive advantage. In fact the racing market has been copying what stands on the podium for years.

We went through a disruptive technology revolution recently with the advent of metal boards. The manufacturers that couldn't figure it out died and left holes in the market. These holes are starting the get filled by new board manufacturers. Given the size of the alpine market we are seemingly starting to get a relatively large number of board builders for what I see as the market size. There may not in fact actually be space for all these manufacturers. Therefore, the manufacturers that can provide customers with value will survive. While this list is by no means exhaustive that value can be through innovation, custom builds, high quality, brand, customer service, or low cost.

Personally I find value in customer service, therefore I've got a few manufacture's that I'm happy to deal with and will in all likelihood continue to deal with in the future.

Dave

[BlueB]

- One guy that's supposedly in Russia that also makes boards in Spain.

One of the first things I did after initially talking to Alexey, was to do a quick search on his company. The company is registered in Spain, you can get the number of employees, names of the key people, address, current liquid capital, etc. Seems legitimate to me.

[BlueB]

Finishing quality is below average.

Since you quoted one of my sentences and then added all lot of stuff, that might sound like coming from me, I feel I need to qualify my comment a bit more:

The cosmetic details I was talking about are the finishing of the bevel of the side walls, resolution of the digital printing used in the top sheets, imperfections it the join of the tail guard and top sheet on few boards...

As far as the base and edge tune goes, I was extremely happy with the way it looked out of the box.