This is frustrating?!?

[LambertoMI]

Any one find people on here buying and selling gear trying to make a profit? I thought the idea of this online forum was to share stories advise, and gear.

Has anyone else found someone to buy gear from you under the "woe is me" guise, only to try to turn around and sell it on the same forum for profit?

I thought here we were all trying to help each other out??

:(

L-

[Michelle]

I would have to say this shouldn't be happening, and in a short time they will be called out. This community is way too small for people to be intentionally falsifying information just to turn something around.

PM me and let me know who it is. We will keep a record in case anyone tries to do it again. If it is a reoccuring problem, they will be 86'd.

No tolerance for intentionally decieving someone on this forum.

[Michelle]

Also, I moved this thread to the main forum just so that everyone can see it.

[tex1230]

out the culprit. people should know who is doing that.

that being said, gear is worth whatever you are willing to pay. I have (several times) bought a board at the end of the season and sold it for more the following fall. I only do that on ebay though...never here.

[Chris Houghton]

I'd like to offer my opinion. If I willingly enter into a deal to sell something on the forum, I don't think of putting any conditions on that agreement, like the buyer cannot resell. Some people get buyer's remorse, or try the board for one run, or put on the boots and they don't fit.

We are a fairly small community, and if someone tries to resell for profit he will eventually get called on it. I can remember a few times that an item was for sale and I could go into the seller's history and see where, when and how he bought the board. I'm sure others do that too. Michelle is right, point this person out to the admins and they can deal with it as needed. If it really is a case of buyer's remorse, it should be a one time thing, and resell for what the buyer paid.

Like BlueB and others, I've sold a few things on here that I would gladly have given a refund, as it was tough to let them go. If I saw the item for sale a few weeks after I sold it, I would be all over the seller to find out what happened.

[Corey]

I sold a board to someone on here for about $125, with clear pictures where a skier hit me and peeled part of the cap off and how it was epoxied back on. A year or two later it was listed for $200+ with no mention of any damage. Sketchy, but buyer beware I guess.

I believe that the fair price is one that someone will pay. I've sold boards under the price I could have gotten just to move them. If you're willing to sit on something for a while waiting for the right buyer to come along you can get a fair bit more money than if you want it gone by the end of the week.

If you're ever buying a board (or anything really) and the seller dodges a question, chances are they're covering something up. I'll gladly pay more for something with a 2 paragraph story than something that says: Donek 171, good condition, rips!"

[bobdea]

And this is why I don't like it when people delete old sale threads

[scrapster]

Intent is hard to judge. With so many variables involved, it would probably be difficult to pin someone with this behavior unless they really established a pattern of buying low and selling high.

Otherwise, there are a lot of gray areas. Take a hypothetical: Someone posts a 2010 Colier VSR for $450--they need cash quick. Although the specs aren't spot on, you're first in line and decide to try it out anyway because it's a great deal. After a week, you decide it was a bad move and re-list it for the higher, but still reasonable price of $600. Of course, the original seller would probably be upset, but I don't necessarily think it would be unethical to sell the board for more.

We often tease people for pricing boards and other used equipment too high. And in some cases, I've seen folks advise a newbie that they had seriously undervalued that "new Kessler they won in a raffle." But when you are not talking about the extremes, it is a little less clear.

I still think the most egregious behaviors are misrepresenting the condition of an item, or deceiving a newbie regarding the appropriateness of a piece of equipment or its fair value.

[tufty]

I still think the most egregious behaviors are misrepresenting the condition of an item, or deceiving a newbie regarding the appropriateness of a piece of equipment or its fair value.

This.

Stop bitching. If I purchase an object, it becomes mine - at this point I am entitled to do any damn thing I like with it. This includes selling it immediately afterwards for a profit.

You, the original seller, don't get to bitch and moan about what I do with it, because you have ceased to be its owner. You have no say in the matter. You were presumably happy with the price I paid, because that's the price you sold it for.

It shouldn't require a communist to explain the basics of capitalism, surely?

[Chris Houghton]

Although Tufty is correct, and this behaviour is normal on Ebay or Craigslist, I think the point people are trying to make here is that this is a community of like minded individuals. So "members" should not profit from each other, like "normal" capitalists do.

Having said that, if I sell a board I could care less if you resell and make a profit. Maybe you'll buy another one from me when the time comes.

[AgassizSkidder]

While capatilism is killing the world I am happily finding all sorts of good advice on this site. I would hate to think that I have to second guess every purchase from now on. Naive, sure, but I think that is important when speaking of passion. Carving is passion and business should stay out of it.

[BobD]

Although Tufty is correct, and this behaviour is normal on Ebay or Craigslist, I think the point people are trying to make here is that this is a community of like minded individuals. So "members" should not profit from each other, like "normal" capitalists do.

Having said that, if I sell a board I could care less * if you resell and make a profit. Maybe you'll buy another one from me when the time comes.

I agree. Despite many differences, the people on this forum treat each other as friends. It seems a bit rude to profit from a friend's ignorance of value, or their goodwill. The exception might be a board that has become more valuable over a long period. Burton raceplates would be an example, where a used pair bought for $75 several years ago, might be worth twice that today.

Ebay is a totally different game, but even there, as a hardbooter, you are not totally anonymous.

* http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-ico1.htm ;)

[queequeg]

You, the original seller, don't get to bitch and moan about what I do with it, because you have ceased to be its owner.

Actually, he can bitch and moan about it as much as he likes, because you and he are participating in a public forum. You can do as you like, and he can bitch as he likes. You are free to whine about his bitching just as much as he is free to bitch. Deal.

I sold a board to someone on here for about $125, with clear pictures where a skier hit me and peeled part of the cap off and how it was epoxied back on. A year or two later it was listed for $200+ with no mention of any damage. Sketchy, but buyer beware I guess.

If you're ever buying a board (or anything really) and the seller dodges a question, chances are they're covering something up. I'll gladly pay more for something with a 2 paragraph story than something that says: Donek 171, good condition, rips!"

I believe that people should be allowed to sell their used gear for whatever price they see fit, as the market will determine the real value of the item ... so people should be permitted to resell for a profit (I can't believe anyone is doing this!). However: I think using the forum for the purpose of flipping equipment for a profit is pretty lame. Selling equipment with known and undisclosed flaws/damage is incredibly $hitty. The few purchases I have made through the forum have gone very well, and everyone I have dealt with buying/selling stuff has been extremely cool. I think that's mostly because we all know this is a small community and that we need to deal honestly and fairly with one another, and that the focus of the community is snowboarding, not profiteering.

[LambertoMI]

So, I guess I hit a strong spot for a lot of people here. So to clarify here are some details.

Person posts a listing "newbie looking for my first carve setup". I am looking to unload some extra gear I have. I negotiate down a better price for this newbie trying to help them out.

After I ship said gear to this "newbie", this person then proceeds to go actively respond to every new posting for "new to carving" trying to sell the same gear they bought from me for more than they paid.

I am all about capitalism, and have no problem making a profit. But, you ask for help and a favor, then proceed to stick it to someone else?

That is what I had issue with. Sorry for being opinionated on this, but I had issue with the ethics of it.

I was glad and also appreciative to hear all the different points of view on the subject.

L-

[John E]

Not sure I understand this thread. I bought a board at a garage sale and sold it on this forum at a substantial profit. I did not mis-represent it. I sell a lot of stuff on eBay. I value my reputation (rating). I won't deceive someone on the condition of what I am selling. A deal is a deal. What is the problem?

[scrapster]

Sounds like the seller went out of his way to help someone out and now feels he was duped. (Not that he should have sold the board for more, but that the buyer wasn't honest about his situation in the negotiations.) I could see that leaving a bad taste.

This forum functions on people being generous with their time, knowledge and to some extent, their equipment. Taking advantage of that just isn't cool.

If it's any solace to the seller, there is still a possibility that it was all just a misunderstanding. Life is complicated. I hope you can keep your good will intact and move forward.

[LambertoMI]

I will continue to help out fellow HB where and when I can. I enjoy the sport and share with all that are interested.

Buying and selling is fine, and making a profit is fine. Best luck to anyone trying to make some money today.

There was a guy in Las Vegas who used to sit outside one of these big casinos and beg for moeny. He had a sign that said, "I won't lie to you, I want money for a beer". I applaud the honesty in that statement.

I left the guy a couple bucks....

Cheers, L-

[Jack M]

I don't like the idea that it is anyone's responsibility other than the individual's to be informed about the value of an item and to conduct transactions accordingly.

I don't think BOL (the members or moderators) should be responsible for protecting people from their own ignorance. People should be responsible for themselves. If the profiteer happens to get noticed and publicly shamed, that's fine, but people shouldn't expect this kind of protection.

I agree that it is cheesy to flip gear among friends or within a "club" such as BOL. I was also put off when the winner of a new Coiler in the ECES raffle turned right around and sold it. But that's their prerogative. The thought of making policies against such action and enforcing them offends my inner libertarian. Although I think we could have a policy against a pattern of such behavior.

[scrapster]

Luckily there are miles and miles of ground between a wild-west environment where fraud and hucksterism are tolerated (or even encouraged) and a set of rigid, unworkable policies that infringe substantially on people's rights. Although I realize such moderate views are not in vogue these days ;)

I'm speaking generally, not necessarily about the forum.

PS- Barring a pattern of behavior seems like a rational, middle-ground approach.

[heroshmero]

The bottom line is don't sell something for less than you will be happy with.

[BlueB]

You guys are really overthinking this. It's a small community and the things work out themselves, most of the time...

How do you expect modderators to controll this? It would require an enormous data base of boards, with entry of the last sold price, every time something gets sold. Then you'd have to ask permission to sell at certain price, before listing. Without a data base, it's just "I said, he said" type of thing. It would boil to a judgemnet call of a mod, always leaving someone unhappy.

It is almost good that price gets bumped up from time to time, otherwise there would be a tremendous devaluation of goods. Everyone knows that gear is cheaper this time of the year and will be more expensive next fall. Now imagine if you never were allowed to sell at slightly higher price, example: You buy a newish but a bit beat up 4WD now for 250 as your backup board; then over the summer you put a nice tune up and she's like new; then in the fall you ride it a bit and decide not for you, now you can not sell it for 300 that would be a fair fall price, not even to mention money spent on shipping, tune, etc; newbe who bought it from you acquired few better boards during the season, but will be only able to sell it for 200 or less in the spring; it spirals down from there...

Certain things have increased in value, as someone else said, like Race Plates, or Dynastars/O'SIns, some devalued a lot (glass race boards), but it's all good. Free market...

Sellers, sell your stuff and say "thank you" to the buyer. Then use the money to buy some more gear. ;)

Buyers, do your research, buy smart, say "thank you" to the seller, then enjoy your new stuff. Then buy more :D

If the things got missrepresented, sort out between yourselves first. Crying publically should be the very last resort...

Or, you want Communism? Here's an idea:

No one can sell or buy anything used. No one can have more then 5 used boards in order to acguire another used board. You still can buy brand new boards as you please. You want something "new to you" but used, you have to come down to 5 boards again. The only way to do it is to give some boards away, through ad here or localy. Newcomers would score, as there would be tons of free gear, but people who like trying stuff would score too as you actually don't pay anything for it, except shipping. Plus, no clutter in the garage.

Jack would have to create an enourmos data base to controll this. He might as well grow thick mustache and change his name to Joseph Vissarionovich. He'll send all the culprits to a snow-Gulag, where you can ride only softies on steep ice. :D :D We'll also have a secret undercover agents, helping him to expose the perpetrators.

[RideGuy]

The bottom line is don't sell something for less than you will be happy with.

I'm not sure it's as simple as that.

I was happy to sell a barely used board for cheap when a fellow community member was trying to find a board for his daughter so she could take up hard booting. I sold it for less then what I would have been happy getting on kijiji/e-bay, etc.

I think people here are willing to sell for less then market value if they know it will help a fellow community member. At least I am.

[BlueB]

I think people here are willing to sell for less then market value if they know it will help a fellow community member.

You are right. I forgot to mention in my satirical post that pretending to be someone else and missrepresenting own situation, in order to get cheap board for resale, is very lame. Really.

Dual identities are not permitted anyways, so that's grounds for bann already!

[John E]

If sellers value their reputation and don't mis-represent the item, the deal is fair. If the seller just wants to make a quick buck and disappear, buyer beware.

eBay has a great system. It is self-policing. I'd rather take a hit on a sale than ruin my rating. No Big Brother having to determine value.

[bjvircks]

Not sure I understand this thread.

What is there to not understand? A weasle lied about his situation to drive a bargain, apparently with intent resell instantly at a profit, in effect screwing someone trying to be nice. I'd be really ticked off, too!

Like others have stated, I'm also very OK with the ebb and flow of free market pricing here at BOL. However, misrepresenting yourself or your situation is NOT ok.