Plates and Freestyle Boards

[Big D]

Anybody out there ride a freestyle board with plates for powder days?

Having gone to hard boots way back when I always missed the responsiveness when I rode my freestyle board, especially on toe side turns and always was frustrated at the never ending heel lift in softies. So I put some very forgiving hard boots on an old wide freestyle board and 10 plus years later I am still using the same. The board is tired as are the boots and I am ready to start anew.

Here are my thoughts/concerns:

Thoughts

-Get a pair of plastic shell mountaineering boots and try to find an old Burton Flex binding with the beloved High-back strap. Then enjoy spinning yarns of days gone by when people point and ask what are those...

- Go new school and get the most forgiving hardoots and step in binding.

Concerns

- Will a new freestyle board be able to support a modern Bomber/Catek step in?

I am sure I could have something sturdy and custom built but was curious if anyone had some knowledge to spare in regards to standard boards like a Tanker or other powder gun that might be sturdy enough.

Thanks,

D

[zoltan]

I think you should take another look at modern soft boots. They've come a very long way from when you tried them last over a decade ago.

[carvedog]

Don't get a Tanker.

I run plates on Burton Canyon, Frontier and a couple of old Airs.

I also just traded some work for Ride 177 that I ran with plates a couple of times and really liked it.

All with race plates. FWIW.

[Ear dragger]

Ive been riding os2's on my ride timeless for a while, same boots as i carve with. no problems, instant happiness. no need for special gear.

[jtslalom]

Big D,

I couldn't agree with zoltan any more. He is 100% correct. Definately take a look at new "firm" soft boots. I have a pair of Burton Drivers that are pretty stiff for a pair of soft boots. There are also many pairs of "firm" soft boot bindings.

As far as riding plate bindings on a softboard, I would be careful if I were you. I'm sure any Bomber binding could withstand the board flex but other types of bindings can snap under the pressure of board flex. It had happened to me but I exclusive ride hard pack.

[Neil Gendzwill]

If you want to go plates on that style of board, I wouldn't be looking at Bomber or Catek. I'd recommend looking at the F2s if step-ins are what you want (I love mine). Deeluxe 225s are probably the boot to look at, assuming you fit the Raichle molds.

I've not tried the modern softboots. I've heard the Driver Xs are approaching the stiffness of the 225s.

[philw]

Anybody out there ride a freestyle board with plates for powder days?

It depends what you mean by "freestyle". I ride powder boards on powder days, with hard boots and F2 bindings. Powder boards are officially Off Topic and discussion on those and using hard bindings in Burton's new systems was moved to the off-topic section.

Will a new freestyle board be able to support a modern Bomber/Catek step in?

Hard bindings work fine on any modern board in my experience. The only issue is board width, which is not really related to bindings. I mean that if you have a very wide board and your toes aren't close to the edge, it doesn't matter in powder, but it's would not be ideal on hardpack because of the leverage you can't excert. I happen to use F2 bindings. I've ridden lots of boards from the major manufacturers and never had any issues with either the boards or the bindings.

I am sure I could have something sturdy and custom built but was curious if anyone had some knowledge to spare in regards to standard boards like a Tanker or other powder gun that might be sturdy enough.

The Burton Stellar is a "powder gun" - I wrote a little review of that ridden with hard boots & bindings here.

I've used various hard boots over the years, but this year changed to the HSPs. Can't say I really noticed much difference over the Indys - for sure they're different, I just kind of put them on and ride, they either fit or I chuck them out, and these fit fine out of the box. I suppose I should get the inners moulded sometime but I'll probably not bother as they're already perfectly forgettable.

[tex1230]

Hard bindings work fine on any modern board in my experience. The only issue is board width, which is not really related to bindings.

You are putting out some bad info here.

As shown in the recent Tanker discussion, along with many experiences mentioned over the last decade ot two, many "freestyle" and "Powder" boards are simplynot strone enough around the insert pack to handle the stress od an agressive rider on plates. Yes, they will all work, but A heavy or agressive rider will break a lot of these boards in a day or two.

Certain Ride and Burton boards seem to handle plates ok, but I would not trust a universal statement like above. I have seen Nitro, Rossi, Never Summer, and Burtons delam under the binding in one run under heavy riders on softboots. Add the leverage of a plate binding, especially a stiff one like a bobber or catek, and you're asking for disaster

[Guest]

You are putting out some bad info here.

As shown in the recent Tanker discussion, along with many experiences mentioned over the last decade ot two, many "freestyle" and "Powder" boards are simplynot strone enough around the insert pack to handle the stress od an agressive rider on plates. Yes, they will all work, but A heavy or agressive rider will break a lot of these boards in a day or two.

Certain Ride and Burton boards seem to handle plates ok, but I would not trust a universal statement like above. I have seen Nitro, Rossi, Never Summer, and Burtons delam under the binding in one run under heavy riders on softboots. Add the leverage of a plate binding, especially a stiff one like a bobber or catek, and you're asking for disaster

I will second that. An aggressive and/or heavy rider using plates on a softboot-oriented board is just asking for it to break.

[bobdea]

You are putting out some bad info here.

As shown in the recent Tanker discussion, along with many experiences mentioned over the last decade ot two, many "freestyle" and "Powder" boards are simplynot strone enough around the insert pack to handle the stress od an agressive rider on plates. Yes, they will all work, but A heavy or agressive rider will break a lot of these boards in a day or two.

Certain Ride and Burton boards seem to handle plates ok, but I would not trust a universal statement like above. I have seen Nitro, Rossi, Never Summer, and Burtons delam under the binding in one run under heavy riders on softboots. Add the leverage of a plate binding, especially a stiff one like a bobber or catek, and you're asking for disaster

+1

and I have to add that since philw works at a heli operation that his yardstick for durability is probably lower than just about anyone else on this message board because his boards will never really get loaded in a turn.

[Guest]

Big D, what is your goal here? Are you trying to do deep, laid-out carves on a freeride board? Prrrrobably not going to happen, and at least for me, it doesn't have to on the freeride setup. Is this setup only for powder, or for groomers, too? Powder only --> no shame in just throwing on softboots. (from extremecarving.com: "Don't delude yourself, most of the days of a winter season find mainly hard or icy snow conditions... But when the powder is there, no hesitation: soft boots and a freeride board!"

I ride softboots about 50% of the time, with binding angles at 30* front/ 15* back. I get some toe overhang, but I was told with softboots you need a little overhang to ensure you're able to really pressure your entire edge.

Blues and greens are a blast, and on steeper blues/normal blacks, I can link carves, no skidding, down them (about 50% of the time I don't wash out/chatter). BUT - I feel very comfortable going into trees and doing jumps on this setup, where I don't feel like that on my alpine setup. I personally like playing around. Some people don't - all they want is a deep carving setup.

You really have to ask yourself what you want to do, and then the community can help you focus.

[philw]

You are putting out some bad info here.

...

I have seen Nitro, Rossi, Never Summer, and Burtons delam under the binding in one run under heavy riders on softboots.

I can only describe my experience as it is. It's true that I only ride powder boards in powder, which you may want to bear in mind if you're intending to ride them on plastic or a slalom course. The original post asked about powder, however.

On your second point above, no one said otherwise. You're suggesting that my words mean more than I said. I was quite clear to say "in my experience".

You've provided your opinion, which is a somewhat different thing. I don't particularly disagree with it, but it hardly changes the fact of my experience, does it?

[carvedog]

+1

and I have to add that since philw works at a heli operation that his yardstick for durability is probably lower than just about anyone else on this message board because his boards will never really get loaded in a turn.

While I have to add that my fat ass takes boards everywhere and into every type of situation AND I expect my boards to carve as hard as their torsional flex will allow.

My 'soft' boards have seen many, many days of hard groomed, bumps and trees. Most of that time I weigh between 230 and 260. Burton race plates are my go to binding.

And except for that six inch chunk of edge I tore out of an old Mistral I have never had a board failure ( except for the Tanker which fell apart ) of any kind. My old Supermodel 181 got pretty soft at the end of it's life but it was still completely intact in spite of about 10 core shots.

[b0ardski]

"While I have to add that my fat ass takes boards everywhere and into every type of situation AND I expect my boards to carve as hard as their torsional flex will allow."

My experience is more like Carvedog's.

I've used plate binders on free ride decks for 20 yrs (the stiffest freeride boards I can find built for big mountain riding, loved my old vashon built k2 eldos) and have never pulled out the inserts, (I guess I'm not heavy & aggressive enough 180 then, 205 now:p) though I have cracked the board at the point load of the binding plate from a crash or stump impact or ripped the edge on a rock.

Then 4 years ago I discovered Bomberonline, and bought an alpine free ride shape off the classifieds and it's one of my go to, do anything boards. I always use a soft flexing hardshell and stepin plates.

most of these boards have at least 60-80+ days use

That said my next board will be an all mt shape built for plates

[Puddy Tat]

- Go new school and get the most forgiving hardoots and step in binding.

I went this route with T225s, and TD3 step-ins with the yellow elastomers mounted onto a 165cm long 25cm wide custom Donek at 50/45. I dropped a cliff for about 10'-12' of vertical into 21cm of fresh powder with no issues last weekend. I'm 6' 2" and 215 lbs.

I think you would have trouble on any modern softboot board with hardboots just due to the board width. Personnally if I buy another board to replace this one it will be around 23-24 cm wide (for my mondo 28 boots). As soon as your angles start coming down the lateral stiffness of the boot (even my T225s) starts allowing you to quite easily overload the nose of the board. And modern freestyle boards are getting really wide, short, and soft which will make it even easier to do this.

Dave

[nantucket carver]

i have a volkl coal 167 with TD2 back foot and TD1 up front the only mod i did was add a 3/16 5000 series treated aluminum disk under each binding then carved it a bit so looks like a double sided tuning fork :rolleyes:http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/eplus2.gif . a few trial and errors later it still flexs but much stiffer i'll download photos. then my boots are old 123 that have been dremmeled , cut, sanded , and heated to soften a few spots . result hard boot comfort and resopnse is still solid but i can flex as far as my ankle will allowhttp://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[lafcadio]

Ive been riding os2's on my ride timeless for a while, same boots as i carve with. no problems, instant happiness. no need for special gear.

I do exactly the same. Ride Timeless with Catek OS2s.

[GeoffV]

Free ride boards and plates, uh yeah not a good idea.

Don't believe me here's proof.

[Ear dragger]

Nice Geoff!! Those damn td's!:)

[big mario]

I feel I have to defend an older Tanker here

I have been running TD2's or OS2's on my 02/03 wide since I got it in 2006. It only comes out on pow or really soft groom days. I have stuffed the nose and done several nice impressions of lawn darts, hit rocks and stumps, and had landing issues on more than a few misguided attemps at putting daylight under my board, and as of yet I have not had a problem at 250+ depending on recent beer intake. I have also run plates on a few older Limited LTD's(the ones made in Canada) without issues. If you must run plates on a freeride board, make sure it is a 02/03 tanker and you should not have any problems

mario

[snowboardfast]

I ride a Dupraz D1 with lemans hardboots and bomber sidwinder plates. I only ride this board when the snow is soft and I don't try to push it really hard like a race board on groomed snow. I weigh 187 and no problem. The Dupraz is designed to be ridden with either hard or soft boots. I would imagine that most soft boot decks today are made in China and are not made strong enough to be used with alpine boots and bindings. the Dupraz only comes out when it is a big powder day like 8" or more new snow. Anything less and I will be riding one of my all mountain alpine boards such as the Donek172AX or the Prior 174.

[BlueB]

I'm yet to brake a freeride or pow board with plates... Funny enough, I managed to kill one alpine and one freeride ment for h/boots. I'm close to 190lbs, ride pretty hard and tumble hard. I ride steep moguls quite often on softer days, too.

However, I feel that anything Catek or Bomber is overkill, even detremental, for freeriding. I try to run the floppiest plates I can find, with large contact patch to the board.

[b0ardski]

Free ride boards and plates, uh yeah not a good idea.

Don't believe me here's proof.

<hr style="color: rgb(51, 153, 255);" size="1">

I've heard the osin (made in spain)versions were not as well built as the dynastar. I had an osin 3800 and used xbones with 124s (both flexy) with no problems.

The video evidence makes me think the suspended td2 w/soft elastomer concentrates upward pressure to one side of center disc, thereby 1or2 inserts, while the opposite side puts downward pressure on the topsheet. Just food for thought, not dissing suspended plates. It does seem that the more rigid binders, TDs, Cateks, are more prone to that type of board failure.

[Big D]

Thanks for sharing all the experience and recommendations. Nice to know there are some options out there.

[moosehead]

Check out the SWOARD dual it's made for both plates and soft bindings. I recommend a flexible plate binding like the f2 carve rs I just got these and love them with deeluxe 325 boots and yellow BTS. I also ride this board on powder days with Burton c60 bindings with elevators and love this combo as well. I also ride my prior ATV with the same set ups and both boards are so much fun.