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Comment on past Snowman’s Thread and Censorship


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Just a statement about the now-deleted thread by Snowman showing his new board he had made from Donek with the "Dukes of Hazzard" car theme on it. This seemed to upset a few members and a heated discussion evolved. All fine and dandy except a few members decided to take it a step further and break the rules we have set-up here to keep things civil. So before there is the historic cry of “BOL censorship!” allow me to tell you what we have done and why. Then make your decision if we censored.

For starters, need to make this clear, SNOWMAN DELETED THE THREAD. Bomber did not. People seem to forget that the starter/originator of any thread has the power to delete that thread at any time. It is a function of the forum that I like and plan to keep. Funny enough I have received e-mails from both backers and opponents of Snowman’s snowboard claiming I am taking sides and I deleted the thread. We’ll just file these under I can’t win.

When the discussion flared up in the “New Board Porn” thread I removed those comments and directed everyone to Snowman’s thread to discuss this. I made it clear not to wreck what is a great thread about people’s new boards they got for the season. This was not a punitive action, it was to keep the thread on topic. Member “lonbordin” decided to ignore my request and post there again to antagonize as well as claim I had taken sides. He then tried to register under a new name after I told him to cool off and banned him for a short time. Please take note: if you REALLY want to rub me the wrong way when you get temporarily banned to cool down, try re-registering again under a new name. It’s that easy.

Long time member “Bola” is also currently banned. In the twenty some-odd year of being in this business I have of course been called all kinds of things. Some true some not, but none the less, when you are in my position, especially as the owner of a forum, you get used to people claiming to know what your intents are. However, I draw the line on someone announcing that my forum is a haven for “brain washed” racists, and that I am a racist. I just cannot accept that and take great offense to something that is completely untrue. So Bola is on a time out as well.

The opinions and comments on the BOL forum are the actions of individuals. They do not represent me or my company. The sooner that is understood, the easier this will be.

A quick comment on banning. Most bannings are for a few days to a week. We usually use this tool to let people cool down. Much like the penalty box of a hockey game. Just asking people to take a time out. So when you see the title under someone’s name as “banned” there is a good chance it is only for a short period of time. And if you are that person who was told to take a time out the absolute worst thing you can do is flare up and start writing me nasty e-mails and threats. This makes it much easier for me to just “eject you out of the game” on a permanent basis. Much like that hockey ref would do if you threw your glove at him from the penalty box. Act like an adult and you get treated like one.

I am going to leave this thread up for a few days then move to “Off Topic”. You are more than welcome to comment here on this but keep it civil and respectable. See a pile of you at SES next week!

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I find this all rather ironic. The people complaining about being censored are the people who were complaining that I did not censor snowman's graphic.

I have a very simple policy when it comes to custom graphics. It is founded in the principles of the the country I live in. I do not censor anyone's custom graphics, period. The most I will do it refuse to put my logo on a graphic I find distasteful. The fact that I don't find the teen-aged idolization of a car distasteful is perhaps my own problem or more likely a result of the region of this country that I was raised.

This issue arose over displaying a flag that is associated with slavery and racism in some parts of the US. There are millions in the world who see the US flag as a symbol of evil. Does this mean we should stop displaying it? There's no way anyone can get away with saying that's different just because of what side you are on. It is exactly the same thing.

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I think the majority of people that see Snowman's board and are in the right age range will say: "cool, I loved that show!"

How can I get bull horns on my board and attempt to chase him to the state line?

I don't remember the show at all other than the car chases and Daisy Duke; was the negative connotation of the Confederate Flag ever implied? I don't even know the history or have an opinion either way, I'm just curious.

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Taking Sean's point further, that in many parts of the world, the US flag is reviled as an offensive symbol of oppression. (not that I care or agree) This is an international website, should we not allow posts that include images of boards built with the American flag on them?

OR has the Confederate Flag risen to the level of the Swastika? I don't know. I just know that when I see someone displaying it, I avoid them. But if I saw someone with this board, honoring my favorite TV show of all time, I would probably walk right up to them and start a conversation. Does that make me a Confederacy sympathizer?

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All time BOL record on banning! Snowman and Buell have been given a time out in this one.

Buell: please read my above post. I tried to make it clear that these are the actions (Snowman's board) of an individual. That fact that you and others have tried to focus your issues with this individual on others here (Sean, then me) is pretty offensive. I and others understand you do not like the Dukes of Hazard or what it symbolizes to you but to start shot-gunning everyone involved is not the way to get your point across. Who is next, my IP because they allow our website to exist? Stay focused on who your issue is with and you will get better results.

People, stop blaming Sean and I for any issues you have with an individual here. Please.

And you'll see I banned you and Snowman. Both of you guys have had it out for each other for a while and I think you (Buell) see this as an opportunity to take advantage of the situation. And Snowman, I think we all know you have no bad intent with the board graphics, but you now also see this as an opportunity to go after Buell. So you two both get a time out.

If this starts going south again (no pun intended) she be locked down.

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Wow. Lots of folks getting their undies in a bundle. Sorry I missed the original entertainment, I'd probably have gotten banned too.

I like the idea of a time-out. Much better than a permanent ban.

Its sort of sad that we need any censorship (even self-imposed). Maybe we need a "do you really want to post this" button that pops up before our posts show up? This place is so incredibly pc compared to other forums. Tex and I both spend time on TGR. You have to try really, really hard to get banned there.

My daughter has a test this week on the constitution. Last night we discussed the first amendment and all that goes with it. I explained that free speech doesn't give you the right to yell "Fire" in a crowded theatre, but she pointed out that she could stand outside school with a banner that says "Homework Sucks" or "Grading on a curve is Socialism" if she wanted. Last year a kid in her school got suspended for starting a "Mrs. Martin is a biatch" (or some word like that) group on FB. My daughter didn't think that was right - even if starting the FB group was a stupid move. I kind of agree with her. But we also agreed that when someone posted a comment along the lines of 'we should egg her car', that went to far. Right in line with Brandenburg v. Ohio.

I loved Dukes of Hazzard. I think that topsheet is cool looking. I'd never put it on my board, but don't care if snowman puts it on his (I'd probably feel different if it were a swastika, although I'd also probably still support the person's right to display it if they really wanted to invite that sort of attention). But I also think that if a bunch of forum members want to argue vigorously about their opinions, and even get all butthurt and insult one another - that's OK up until you go to far and advocate violence or some other lawless tactic (like busting up signs at Bola's business).

In the end though, it is Fin's forum. Don't like it? Go start your own. He can put you in time-out or ban you if he wants. And you can re-register with a new alias - but remember its a pretty small community and he's not a dummy - he'll probably figure it out and get understandably annoyed. You've got the right to write to him and protest your ban. You can even call him a nazi censor in your email if you want. Just don't be surprised when your time-out becomes permanent and he starts blocking your emails.

Bottom line, don't be an idiot.

If you really want to mess with someone, you can do what This Guy did (sort of snowboard related and very funny).

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Every symbol taken out of the relevant contest can be found as positive or negative. It's pretty much in the eye of beholder... Take Swastika for instance, it's a 5000 years old symbol and had various meanings over the centuries:


Confederate flag, Cuban flag, Burton's naked girls, on top sheet of a snowboard? Who cares? It's a freaking snowboard not a political agenda. Hell, I'll do my next top sheet with a red star and portrait of J.B. Tito done in black/white "Che Guevara" style...

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I really shouldn't say anything, being in my position, but I am from the "deep south" too as Buell said, and I find NO racism in the General Lee or the confederate flag. Just because a few clueless people decided to make it a symbol that was associated with their radical beliefs, I don't think that Snowman's board graphics can in any way be associated with calling him a racist! I loved the show "The Dukes of Hazard" and everyone my age always wanted a General Lee. At no time did I ever think while I was watching that show as a child that I was promoting racism, nor do I think that today and I take offense that someone would think that! It was a stupid funny show and the confederate flag was simply a part of it, that's all.

I also lived in Germany for a while, and love the country. I have the flag in my house and show it off with pride. Does that make me a Nazi or NAzi lover?

Being from the south has it's own generalizations and speculations that I will not defend. But I will say this - Racism has no color. This is the kind of thing that starts wars in other countries.

Give it a rest everyone - we all have better things to do and think about.

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I find NO racism in the ...confederate flag. Just because a few clueless people decided to make it a symbol that was associated with their radical beliefs,

Well...I don't know. Its tough to call the entire civil war-era south seceding under the "stars and bars" in a fight to maintain the institution of slavery a "few clueless people."

However, it's pretty obvious that things have different meanings to different people. And I think the confederate flag may have more, and more complex meanings today than it did when it was created. (And yes, I did once own a Dukes of Hazard lunch box--second favorite only to my Emergency 51 lunch box ;))

Funny, I even run into some folks in Massachusetts sporting the rebel flag. One did once ask me if I had a problem with it. I said "no," but reminded him that some of my ancestors, and probably some his, died fighting for the Union that we now enjoy. He hadn't thought about the history--it was just a "sled-neck" thing for him.

Now, please, let's let Sean go back to making our snowboards!

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Well...I don't know. Its tough to call the entire civil war-era south seceding under the "stars and bars" in a fight to maintain the institution of slavery a "few clueless people."

Civil war was about states rights and economics too. Arguably more so than slavery.

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I'd take that argument. State's rights to what...? Grow potatoes? Wear white after Labor Day? It's disingenuous to divorce the state's rights argument (or the economic argument) from slavery. They are one in the same. If you erase slavery from US history, the Civil War as we know it never happens. Period.

That being said, I'd never say the war was about racists versus non-racists. Most people were pretty racist back then, at least by today's standards. However, while one side was fighting for the somewhat morally ambiguous cause of "preserving the Union," the other was clearly fighting to maintain an economic system based on slavery and all the justifications that supported it.

Man, its weird to post this on a snowboarding forum:freak3:

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If you're going to take that argument, The United States would not exist without slavery. The financiers of the revolution from British rule were all farmers, and at that time in history, farmer = slave owner.

not all farmers, there was a whole class of farmers who could not afford slaves and others that did not keep them for religious reasons.

Mass abolished slavery in like 1790 or something, VT was 1777, NH the little piece of the south in the north that is ended it in 1857 but was not official until the 13 amendment. just a FYI.

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not all farmers, there was a whole class of farmers who could not afford slaves and others that did not keep them for religious reasons. .

you're right,

Not all farmers, but the wealthy ones who financed the revolution...

BTW the General Lee was a kick-ass car. didn't really ever notice the paint job, I was too bust staring at Daisy Duke in her Daisy Dukes :1luvu:

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