Say a prayer...

[Rob Stevens]

... for the Gulf Coast.

Makes me want to puke and sell my car.

We don't deserve this beautiful World of ours.

[big mario]

and the keys, the outerbanks............

[lowrider]

Looks like Obama owns an oil company now too!The only one liable for anything is the tax payer.

[BobD]

Looks like Obama owns an oil company now too!The only one liable for anything is the tax payer.

Don't understand what Obama has do with it

[bjvircks]

As I walked into the building for work today a friend asked why I looked so glum. I told him I was angry that the oil drillers could design and build an effective wellhead that would allow gushers like this to be shut off, but for the sake of being a few pennies more profitable this kind of safety hardware is omitted. Now EVEYBODY pays for this caving-in to 'Big Oil'. Makes me sick to think about how quickly this is getting out of hand.

[lowrider]

Oil co. have limited liability. The tax payer has unlimited ,your tax dollars will pay for this clean up then you will pay more for oil.Bjvirks is dead on correct now the oil co want to drill arctic oil without safety valves and no technology to handle arctic spills sounds like a plan:biggthump

[KingCrimson]

Believe it or not, the US Government is holding BP repsonsible for the accident, and it's accountable for whatever costs as a result of the spill.

In what way is BP's liability limited? Or how are we (Shouldn't say we, I'm not one of them) taxpayers liable?

Sounds like a bunch of tin-foil hat talk. And if you're worried about the price of oil going up as a result of this, I guess it's a shame you didn't invest in fuel options before the accident!

[BobD]

I don't think any oil company is too big to fail, but we will always pick up the excess tab for environmental disasters. Fortunately they don't happen often because we have a government that is big enough to ensure some degree of safety through regulation. In this case, it may well be that government was not big enough to make enough safety inspections. When disasters do happen, we hope that we have a government that is big enough get the job finished. In the past, when the federal government has not done a good job, it's not been the size of government that's the problem, it's been the unqualified political appointments, and the stripping departments of experienced people and resources.

[Alaskan Rover]

I think blame and responsibility falls upon MANY different heads and on many levels.

I may be mistaken on this, but I think in the North Sea, emergency remote shutoff devices are a requirement in order to get a permit to drill for oil. It may be voluntary, but since many of the same companies (Shell, BP, etc) over there, are the same companies as in the Gulf, and they certainly weren't ameniable to voluntary restriction in the gulf, I presume it is MANDATORY in the North Sea.

A mandatory emergency remote device on that well-head would have prevented much of this catastrophy. The reason Gulf rigs do not have such devices is because the extremely powerful oil lobby has repeatedly pressured Congress NOT to instill mandates for such emergency devices. Their motive? Such well-head remote shut-off devices would have added many thousands of dollars to each well...even though they easily paid for such devices in the North Sea. Everyone knows, of course the Bush administration's willingness to dance to the song of the oil lobby, however even the Clinton Admin and now the Obama admin have been pressured NOT to have required such emergncy remote shut-offs on those wells. And these are admins that people would think would NOT be as friendly to oil wishes. That shows you JUST how powerful the oil-lobby really is in Wash DC.

The American people are also complicit in this pending catastrophy through apathy. I believe it was collections of concerned citizens throughout the North Sea nations that pressured their respective governments to REQUIRE emergency measures such as remote shutoffs. These citizens realized the harm that would come to their environment if such undersea wellheads did go wrong...in turn, their governments also realized the the potential of damage and DID something about it through regulation. We need to listen MORE to our grass-roots organizations, our various NGOs that want to ensure that our country's environment is safe for future generations to enjoy as we do now. But instead, many of these organizations are ostracised as un-American...especially when it comes to speaking out against many unsafe practices that industries such as 'big-oil' use now.

When prices are low, we forget and turn apathetic until the next industrial catastrophy. When prices are high we are maybe less apathetic but more willing to trade environmental safety for the potential of more oil in hopes of lessening prices. Either way, we lose.

In this country (I can't speak for Canada), we seem so naturally opposed to governmental regulation of business that such is thought of as anathema. But without such enforced regulation of business, we wouldn't have lists of ingredients on our food containers; wouldn't have ANY Clean

Air act; etc. Industry simply will NOT self-regulate, as much as Free-Marketeers think it does. The fact that Industry will NOT self-regulate can be seen in what's happening now in the Gulf.

Maybe finally, this pending Gulf disaster will give the American people and our government some pause, before we yet again dance to industry's song without thought to our actions or lack of action.

Ok...I'll step off the soap-box. Someone else can take their five minutes, now.

[lowrider]

Alaskan Rover is dead on ! In Canada a co. called irving oil had a barge full of oil sink off the east coast 25 years ago later after leaking oil the threat of rust through and a larger disaster forced the gov't to pump out and raise the wreck no cost to oil co. Irving oil sued to get the barge back and won! Canadian tax payer lost again. ( The though of O.J. asking the judge for his gloves back after his trial comes to mind.):lol::lol:

[bjvircks]

BobD... I don't think the issue is government not being big enough, I think the issue is government being spineless on critical matters and caving in to political pressures.

KingCrimson... I feel your perspective is a bit naive. As far as a business having limited liability, all they have to do is say "OOPS, we are bankrupt and out of business. Too bad all this mess is left for everyone else to clean up." And how is taxpayer liability limitless??? Fishermen are forced into bankruptcy when the spawning areas are dead and no more fish are to be caught. Food prices become unbearable because we keep killing off the food sources. Pristine beaches become fouled and resort towns are forced to close their doors and bankruptcies become widespread. Taxpayers cannot just say "OOPS, not my problem anymore".

Alaskan Rover... You are right about the per well cost. The several thousand extra dollars "one time cost" per well-head is a virtually undetectable cost compared to the astronomical costs of exploratory drilling, establishing and maintaining a producing field, the infrastructure required for processing the oil into finished products, etc.

[KingCrimson]

KingCrimson... I feel your perspective is a bit naive. As far as a business having limited liability, all they have to do is say "OOPS, we are bankrupt and out of business. Too bad all this mess is left for everyone else to clean up." And how is taxpayer liability limitless??? Fishermen are forced into bankruptcy when the spawning areas are dead and no more fish are to be caught. Food prices become unbearable because we keep killing off the food sources. Pristine beaches become fouled and resort towns are forced to close their doors and bankruptcies become widespread. Taxpayers cannot just say "OOPS, not my problem anymore".

Well, I don't remember the Valdez terribly well (I was born 4 years after) but I do know that Exxon ended up paying a several billion in punitive damages, on top of the 2 billion they contributed to the cleanup.

Yes they can just "fold" on the cleanup so to speak, but that is not limited liability in my opinion. We seem to be quite good at falling to sematics. :) Edit: Change of heart. Didn't want to remove my previous statement.. I guess I understand what you mean. The inability to pay is, in some manner, a release from liability.

Certainly taxpayers are then left to foot the bill, but I would not call this "Obama Oil" by any means.

[boarderboy]

stretching to the horizon, are one of the most powerfully quiet "earthscapes" I've ever seen.

The thought of defiling these seas of grass with petro-glop is viscerally disgusting to me.

This is a tragedy, made all the more tragic by the reality that we'll probably learn nothing from it.

Passive solar, photovoltaic, small-scale hydro, wind, geothermal, - they all work, they don't require wars, and they don't enrich repressive governments around the globe. Unfortunately, it's tough for Exxon to monopolize 'em and just one of their Gucci Gulch sleezeballs on K Street can speak louder in D.C. than every poet and dreamer in the country.

So next time you fill 'er up, look in the mirror, and remember that a substantial portion of your fix is funding endless lobbying and propagandizing by big oil, big coal, et al.

Peace

BB

p.s. Just got back from two-wheeling it over to the local Orthodox Church where I voted in the Possum Pouch Primary. (and yes, bobdea, still as a Democrat...)

[Alaskan Rover]

Unfortunately, it's tough for Exxon to monopolize 'em and just one of their Gucci Gulch sleezeballs on K Street can speak louder in D.C. than every poet and dreamer in the country.

So next time you fill 'er up, look in the mirror, and remember that a substantial portion of your fix is funding endless lobbying and propagandizing by big oil, big coal, et al.

Peace

BB

Poetically said, boarderboy, poetically said.

Your viewpoints on this pretty much mirror my own.

The price we pay for gas and diesel is way more than mere dollars...at some point in the future, the bill is going to come due.

[davekempmeister]

This subject is the most difficult that I've ever had to discuss with my eight year old (to date). It's heartwrenching and when I talk to her about it, I can see her anguish.

Contrary to the tough talk rhetoric from left and right, the reality is that the cleanup costs for which BP can be held liable are capped. The law at present allows for $75 million and an effort is underway to raise that to $10 billion. Senator Bob Menedez (D., - NJ) is authoring and also attempting to enact retroacively, for obvious reasons.

[BobD]

This subject is the most difficult that I've ever had to discuss with my eight year old (to date). It's heartwrenching and when I talk to her about it, I can see her anguish.

Contrary to the tough talk rhetoric from left and right, the reality is that the cleanup costs for which BP can be held liable are capped. The law at present allows for $75 million and an effort is underway to raise that to $10 billion. Senator Bob Menedez (D., - NJ) is authoring and also attempting to enact retroacively, for obvious reasons.

I heard that on NPR today. If that isn't an indictment of the undue influence of big business on the affairs of American citizens, I don't know what is.

[Petrol]

what's with all the gloom & doom

'Big-Gov' didn't follow its own plans and regulations put in place back in 1994 to help prevent oil spills from reaching shore. The 'In-Situ Burn' plan was designed to burn surface oil on the water before it made its way to the shore, damaging sensitive environmental areas.

the obama gets a pass for doing Nothing for 12 days were-in bush was blamed for hurricane generation & steering, not to mention leve demolition

emo-ecoist trip over each other amidst reports that the slick has reached the shores of a La island, nothing yet found.

Prince Edward Bay is clean... with our help the persian gulf rebounded... the much feared "nuclear winter" following the kuwaiti oil field fires never happend...

Yes, we will clean this as we Are the best stewards this planet has.

on a brighter note, it looks to be a boom year for Chesepeak Bay sea food producers

meanwhile, algore, who promised to dump all his 'climate-change' windfall profits he made back into the climate....

well, "Technically" it could be argued he's keeping his promise, as he just bought another mansion.

A $9 million monster that probably does put a lot back into the climate.

Don't worry, al probably planted a lot of trees to 'carbon-off-set' the house…

or something like that

[GeoffV]

[Jack M]

In what way is BP's liability limited? Or how are we (Shouldn't say we, I'm not one of them) taxpayers liable?

At some point, BP can file bankruptcy, or beyond that, literally run out of cash and liquifiable assets and disband. You can't get blood from a turnip.

The taxpayers, on the other hand, are a bottomless well, as far as some people are concerned.

[Michelle]

Well, I was just in New Orleans visiting family and friends and another problem with this spill is the loss of food and jobs! So many fisherman and women are out of work because of this. A lot of those people use some of their catch to feed their families, and I have to say they DON'T make a lot of money (similar to a famer). They are honest hardworking simple people and now they have no income. The people of Louisiana also fish, crab, shrimp, and hunt for food for their families, even if they do not do this for a living. It is their way of life.

Even if they clean up the spill, Louisiana seafood will be affected for a long time. People in the cities and towns are now afraid to eat it, because of contamination. This means if they do clean it up and people can go back to fishing, the stores and restuarants may not sell it because of the fear factor.

Just another perspective, and something else that is a by product of this absolute disaster!

[heroshmero]

I think this oil spill is a hard pill to swallow for us carvers. You have to acknowledge that our sport is almost completely reliant on oil, gasoline and diesel to make it happen.

Most electricity in the US is created by burning fuel oil (or coal) to heat water to create steam and turn steam turbines. Electricity is needed to turn lifts and operate ski areas. Very few ski areas are using electricity from renewable sources and those that are simply supplement their electricity needs with electricity from renewable sources.

Snow cats require diesel to create that wonderful corduroy that we all love.

Gasoline and oil are required to run snowmobiles that run all over the mountain taking care of things like lift operations and helping out hurt people.

And on top of all that, we all drive up to the ski area in vehicles that require gasoline or diesel.

Our sport of carving is unfortunately very tied to the use of petroleum.

Not trying to bum anybody out. Just some food for thought. :o

[KingCrimson]

At some point, BP can file bankruptcy, or beyond that, literally run out of cash and liquifiable assets and disband. You can't get blood from a turnip.

The taxpayers, on the other hand, are a bottomless well, as far as some people are concerned.

That's I what I thought bjviricks was trying to say.

Thank you.

[softbootsurfer]

and the result is...absolutely disgusting that this happens when it does not have to...Food for thought indeed. Just what exactly is this one poor Bird worth

[boarderboy]

Just what exactly is this one poor Bird worth

being worth a thousand words (poetic or otherwise), this is it.

Thanks for a very poignant reminder of the plight of one "little victim" in a very big picture.

Fair winds and following seas to you. And I really hope the bird made (or makes) it.

BB

[bobdea]

bla bla bla wingnuttery

bla bla bla wingnuttery bla bla bla wingnuttery bla bla bla wingnuttery

bla bla bla wingnuttery

you might as well come out say this a part of the great jewish conspiracy to run the fed or it was actually kenyan communist plot to tax you more and make you queer.

Yes, we will clean this as we Are the best stewards this planet has.

no, not true, even in brazil and venezuela they have tighter regulations on drilling. including a few types of shut off valves that were not installed on this rig.

much of this does have to do with dubya and his people http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/11/washington/11royalty.html?_r=4&hp&oref=slogin