tex1230 Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 Dear Photodad, I respectfully disagree with your opinion. Sincerely, tex1230 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 Spending, i think there is 2 ways to look this, how much you will put money to get board or how much you will spend annually to have latest and greatest stuff to have fun. If you buy board for 1000 for season and sell it for 700 as slightly used after season, then you just spend 300 for it. And doing samething again. For some stuff i buy to keep it longer but most is just for getting experience and to develop as rider and when time comes just recycle stuff for next person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdyno Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 Something that I don't think some people take into account is that you aren't just paying for the raw materials and labour when you buy something. Look at software, it comes on a cd/dvd and what does that cost? $2? When you look at software like Photoshop, how many thousands of hours go into research and development, hence the $900 pricetag (or whatever it costs, not exactly important). The amount of time and energy that goes into building boards and then changing them and tweaking them to be perfect is crazy. I have had a glimpse as to what is involved and it's certainly eye-opening. I think that because most softboot boards slide all over and get used poorly, it's less important when it comes to the quality of them, hence lower quality which translates to lower cost. You can't do that with alpine boards. There is a level of quality that is dictated by the sport that can't allow for a made-offshore-budget model that costs less than a starbuck's coffee. Yes this is all generalization, but it's an idea I'm trying to convey, not technical specifications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 I suspect that if anything, we underpay for the direct labor that goes into a board. Corporate lawyers bill out at what, $200+ per hour? A residential plumber or electrician might charge $100 for the first hour (though you might get a discount for subsequent hours). I don't have a problem with a custom board builder charging the same -- or even more -- for their labor than a corporate lawyer. What they do is harder and arguably brings more benefit to society. (Apologies to any lawyers in the house ) But I'm pretty sure that no board builder is charging rates that value their labor hours at $200+ per hour, and I wonder if they're even charging as much as the plumber/electrician. Mind you, given the economy I'm not likely to ante up for a new metal board any time soon, but I don't think the pricing for high-end boards is unfair or unreasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photodad2001 Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Photodad:You should have been awarded the BOL Nobel prize in economics. What a stroke of genius!? As Bordy said "power to the poster", and it is this type of post that make me not want to come here. All alpine manufacturers should consult you for economic advice and then you will be able to afford the expensive high-end gear they make if you charge them accordingly. You may have a better chance of convincing the soft-boot companies to over produce crappy alpine equipment so that that they can go out of business and be revived again and again like Sims and Lamar and those that have died and can never be resuscitated like Kemper, et. al. are just the price you pay for the capitalist tool. Bola http://www.allboardssports.com Hi, I live on the planet earth where beings have to spend money just to survive. I'd love to come visit you on whatever planet you live on. One last thing. It's just snowboarding. Meditate on that. All you're doing is sliding down frozen granuals of crystalized water in order to have fun. I really think there are a lot of people that think it's more than that. You aren't making the world a better place and it sure isn't helping anybody other than self gratifying yourself so if people want a cheap way to have fun than there's nothing more American than that. Damn, you'd think I was trying to put hospitals out of work the way people ramble on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photodad2001 Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Dear Photodad,I respectfully disagree with your opinion. Sincerely, tex1230 Dear Tex, I whole heartedly appologize for any mental anguish I may have caused you over our recent communications. It was not my intention to cause you any stress related outbursts. We do not see eye to eye on this topic and I respect your point of view as fellow carver and an equal. No hard feelings and I trust we can still be good friends. Yours truely, photodad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 The fanboys realize that "metal" is new, and for them they hope it will make them better riders, whilst at the same time it's something they can impress their mates with, including readers here. So paying extra for those things makes sense for those people. There are of course other reasons you may buy it, but I'm suggesting that's mostly why you can charge a premium for it. Hell, with internet snowboarding you don't even need to learn to ride - just buy the latest and greatest, post a few shots of it here and you're a snowboarding god without even getting out of your chair. Throw in a bit of rudeness and you're away: who dares to challenge you now? But the entry cost is that you have to have the new tech. It may break in normal use and the warranties are a joke, but that's not relevant if you're not intending actually riding it. I'm happy for Alpine manufacturers (well, the polite ones) to take the money from consumers, as: (a) it brings money into the sport; (b) the technology will trickle down to mere snowboarders eventually; © people who like their gear that much are likely to sell it second hand as soon as it gets vaguely scratched. I've a 10 year old board which works better than last year's version of the same board. The new one has a ton of clever trademarked technology in it, and I've no doubt which would be more attractive to a kid or a consumer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Hi, I live on the planet earth where beings have to spend money just to survive. I'd love to come visit you on whatever planet you live on. One last thing. It's just snowboarding. Meditate on that. All you're doing is sliding down frozen granuals of crystalized water in order to have fun. I really think there are a lot of people that think it's more than that. You aren't making the world a better place and it sure isn't helping anybody other than self gratifying yourself so if people want a cheap way to have fun than there's nothing more American than that. Damn, you'd think I was trying to put hospitals out of work the way people ramble on here. why are you here? the cheapest fun I can think of is huffing gasoline or air freshener. I suggest you take that up or continue with the glue habit you have, either one. you don't have a valid say in this thread because you're not willing to buy new at all. your ideas are so misguided I really can't even try to argue it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted December 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 you don't have a valid say in this thread because you're not willing to buy new at all. Sure he does, the poll goes down to <=$200 for this reason. It is true that we're not curing cancer here, but scoffing at people who pay more than you is just as bad as the reverse. Guess I'm a fanboy now, yahoo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 wow:eek: It's starting to sound like congress in here:smashfrea people buy what fits the funbudget:o I swore off square tails but couldn't pass up a $50 ebay score that most of the gear snobs here dis as crap. Thats OK with me cause after 20 yrs I do have a good Idea of what works, what doesn't, and what I can afford. It,s sad to admit but that $50 prime is as big a bite out of this months budget as some other gear whores new custom was for them. Eventually I'll get to ride a new skool metal and I might still go with the tried & true feel of carbon on my 1st custom alpine twin. My choices in no way affects any one elses and I want to thank all the gear whores & builders whose choices will trickle down to me through the classifieds until I squeeze out the budget for new custom:biggthump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Amazing what gets censored and what stays up on this board... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted December 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Amazing what gets censored and what stays up on this board... please. to be totally consistent, we'd need 24x7 moderation. there are two of us, with other full time jobs and lives. yeah I thought bob's post was pretty low, but i wanted to comment on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Sure he does, the poll goes down to <=$200 for this reason.It is true that we're not curing cancer here, but scoffing at people who pay more than you is just as bad as the reverse. Guess I'm a fanboy now, yahoo! there are no new boards available for that price are there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 YEAH, the glue thing. sorry, it is the cheapest high available though. it was late and I was extra abrasive. half apology. I still think photodad is out to lunch though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjvircks Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 there are no new boards available for that price are there? Get a grip, Bobdea. New board is not the (*&&-ng point. New, old, new old stock, $%^# ng Ming Dynasty, whatever. The question at the start of the poll was what would you pay for a board. PERIOD. Just sit there and finish your cup of coffee! (as in 'The Big Lebowski') Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Cost of a board is peanuts what about the cost of my ski hill, groomer, lift,three suburbans two subarus to truck stuff around. Ski and board equip.for 5 ,membership at another facility, gas for groomer and other vehicles.Instructor fees and oh yes ****ty burgers and fries the real revenue source of most bumps and mts.:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogokoenig Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 This is not a discussion about economics. It is about our hobby! And damn, I like that BlingBling custom ****. I like to have something, where I know: It is built by someone, who is as crazy as I am. I like a piece of craftmanship and I like a great ride. Who can ask for a cost / benefit ratio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted December 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 YEAH, the glue thing. sorry, it is the cheapest high available though. Getting outside and kicking/throwing/hitting a ball or frisbee around with a friend or just running/walking/hiking by yourself is pretty much free. The question at the start of the poll was what would you pay for a board. PERIOD. Correct. There is obviously a significant market segment which only buys used boards. Apparently it is bigger than the segment which buys four-figure new boards. Cost of a board is peanuts what about the cost of my ski hill, groomer, lift,three suburbans two subarus to truck stuff around. Ski and board equip.for 5 ,membership at another facility, gas for groomer and other vehicles.Instructor fees and oh yes ****ty burgers and fries the real revenue source of most bumps and mts.:lol: huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Correct. There is obviously a significant market segment which only buys used boards.Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that the question was not clearly worded and so the data is suspect. Roughly 75% of the people responded in the 600-1000 range, which says to me that most people just replied with the going rate for new boards from the standard suppliers.You'd really have to get a multi-question survey going to get good data. Questions like: "Are you willing to buy new at current prices?" "If no, at what price would you consider a new board with conventional construction?" "If yes, what is your price limit for a new board with conventional construction?" "How much more do you think exotic (metal or other) construction is worth?" etc ad nauseum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted December 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 "For your next ride, what amount of money would be acceptable for you to spend on one board?" not sure how to make that any more clear.....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Add the phrase "new or used". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photodad2001 Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 The fanboys realize that "metal" is new, and for them they hope it will make them better riders, whilst at the same time it's something they can impress their mates with, including readers here. So paying extra for those things makes sense for those people. There are of course other reasons you may buy it, but I'm suggesting that's mostly why you can charge a premium for it.Hell, with internet snowboarding you don't even need to learn to ride - just buy the latest and greatest, post a few shots of it here and you're a snowboarding god without even getting out of your chair. Throw in a bit of rudeness and you're away: who dares to challenge you now? But the entry cost is that you have to have the new tech. It may break in normal use and the warranties are a joke, but that's not relevant if you're not intending actually riding it. I'm happy for Alpine manufacturers (well, the polite ones) to take the money from consumers, as: (a) it brings money into the sport; (b) the technology will trickle down to mere snowboarders eventually; © people who like their gear that much are likely to sell it second hand as soon as it gets vaguely scratched. I've a 10 year old board which works better than last year's version of the same board. The new one has a ton of clever trademarked technology in it, and I've no doubt which would be more attractive to a kid or a consumer. Nice post. I completely agree. Eventually I'll be riding metal but when that time comes it'll be some new material and I'll hear how it's impossible to have fun or even carve at all on a board that old and out dated. I've bought used pretty much my whole life and the hand full of new boards I've managed to get my hands on have all been marked down, last years models. Maybe if lift tickets were free and I lived on mountain and didn't have to spend 30 bucks in gas every time I went I'd have a bigger budget for equipment. If you all knew what I wore on the slope I'm sure I'd get the attention of the fashion police too. :D If I won the lottery I'd probably buy a dozen or so new boards from Prior, Donek, Nidecker, F2, and Coiler, but that hasn't happened yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted December 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Add the phrase "new or used". leaving it out doesn't prevent anyone from voting, and the categories down to <=$200 imply used, yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFluff Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Does remind me of a story. Watching a young buck ripping it up at SES a few years back. He was having a great time and really had great style and fluidity. When we stopped to talk, I noticed he was riding relatively vintage gear. I complimented him on his riding abilites and we talked about some of the demo boards he might try. I sensed that a few may have been condisending about his personal gear. I thought it ironic due to the fact he rode at least as well or better than they did on their high end gear. His gear might have fetched a couple hundred total on open market, yet he was having a blast. My guess is he did go on to ride even better with the new gear he tried. It did not take away one bit from his earlier turns. Hi Bryan, I was the guy riding the old burton fp and raceplates that day and still remember talking as well. Hope your leg has healed up well from the 07? SES. I've upgraded a bit but still ride a FP- picked up on ebay, although I did upgrade to the newer style raceplate binding that burton produced. But I digress... I always read your posts Bryan because you are very respectful to everyone who posts on the site. If more handled themselves the way you do, more would probably hang out and post their thoughts. I always try to make the point that if you have the money than spend it however you like. At the same time it certainly is not a necessity to drop 1000 bucks on a board to improve. In my opinion, save the money and spend it on a trip to a resort and rip on what you have. That is always my dillema. If I by a new board I won't be able to get to the mountains to ride it. So I guess I just have to move the family to Colorado so I can stop shopping on ebay. Or, get to SES and hopefully win one. But if I had the money I would spend 800bucks on a board. At this time 250. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 no crusade here, in fact I anxiously await the opportunity to buy the last latest & greatest thing when it comes through the classifieds. So if you can afford it, buy 2 and send 1 down the line when you upgrade:biggthump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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