Asyms are Rad!

[Pow]

I dont feel asym SCRs on boards are necessary, but I think carving skiis would benefit from it. It makes sense to me because the outside ski will always carve a slightly larger radius than the inside ski, so why not make the inside sidecuts larger than the outside sidecuts so both skiis are carving the radius they should to provide a completely smooth turn? When i see videos of extreme ski carving, the outside ski always seems to wobble violently, I think asym sidecuts might solve this for skiiers.

example here:

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[Jack M]

Ok, I'm going to ass-you-me that that skiing video is not you, Pow, and say close but no cigar. That guy needs a board, badly.

I wonder if the outside ski is chattering because at those lean angles the skier weights the inside ski more?

It's pretty cool though to see skiers "getting it". I wonder how many of them get to that point and start to look longingly at alpine snowboards.

ps - I still think skiing without poles looks weird.

[b0ardski]

I think boarding without poles looks wierd:smashfrea

[NateW]

The Nitro Diablo (already mentioned) and Aggression Tarquin were like that. Both were circa 1992 IIRC. My first custom board was built this way too, right before I found out it wasn't needed with even moderate alpine stance angles (45/30 at the time). :) Mervin / Lib re-introduced the same idea this year too.

I still think it makes sense for typical softboot stances.

[EnisiWaya]

Now don't go crazy on on me here.

I miss it because of it's unique ability to do one type of turn no other board has ever done for me with total not even thinking about it sucess turn after turn after turn.

THE FULL BUTTON HOOK CARVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

You could take the PJ and carve a nice rut down the trail and wind it back up to the side and then towards back up the fall line. If you literally fell down the mountain at that point below your feet and board, you could drive it hard with both knees and push back up the hill against the edge. this would bend the ever loving cr**p out of the board and tighten the turn radius up to about ten feet. When the board came through the top and caught up with you in the fall line paralell to your fall line path you could keep the pressure on and it was like a jet assist back across the fall line to the next turn.

Endless trail wide decreasing radius turns with a ten ft. radius finish to over the top to the next jet takeoff for the start of the next one.

Even on crowded days you could make a game out of how long it took you to descend a trail and how many turns you could make full trial width on the way down.

FULL BUTTON HOOK TURNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ENDLESSLY

EFFORTLESSLY!!!!!!!

JUST KEEP FALLING DOWN THE MOUNTAIN way past your feet EACH TIME YOU START TO REALLY SLOW DOWN AND LOOSE MOMENTUM.

Gutsy to learn but oh so much fun!!!!!!

Miss my old PJ:(

Chase

P.S. I learned how to make these turns trying to coach a group of ski instructors while on the PJ on how to go for it and acheive full crossover before the fall line and then to do cross-under turns pushing the skis up hill from them selves to initiate the turn with leg extension.

they had seen me do it on skis but during the week at the MT I could not put the twin planks on for even one run during the day as the only senior level and private snowboard instructor. I actually used a skier's poles to do a slow mo demo the first time, then I realized what could be done. the second time was slow with one pole by the fourth one i could do it slow mo with out poles.

[BlueB]

Ok, I'm going to ass-you-me that that skiing video is not you, Pow, and say close but no cigar. That guy needs a board, badly.

I wonder if the outside ski is chattering because at those lean angles the skier weights the inside ski more?

It's pretty cool though to see skiers "getting it". I wonder how many of them get to that point and start to look longingly at alpine snowboards.

ps - I still think skiing without poles looks weird.

It's a girl...

Yes, chatter comes from underweighed outer ski. That basically happens when you get thrown out of ballance, or hit iregullarity in snow. However it is almost imposible to loose the edge grip on the inner ski and easy to re-engage the outer one.

I've tried Attomic SL skis with assym and offset SCR. No big difference. Metrons ECed better, anyhow.

Cure for the difference in the radius travelled of inner and outer ski is to "separate ze knees". Tilt the inner ski slightly higher on the edge, so it carves the correct radius.

Other technique is to forget about absolutelly parallel tracks. Initiate on the inner ski, so it starts carving first and tighter arc. When the outer ski is engaged and started carving the same radius as the inner, it would point slightly out of your turn direction, gradually widening the stance to the max at apex, then tightening to the finish. Transition will be at narrowest stance. Tracks (combined) will look like a crescent, but both will still be fully carved arcs.

I still have to learn how to do this with a "skate push" incorporated in transition, like we used to accelerate thru the GS courses in the days of straight skis. It could even be a break through for the contemporary race technique ;)

I mostly ski on piste without poles nowadays. Habbit from teaching too many kids. They get in the way too, when carving low. I like them only in the pow, and bumps.

[Kimo]

I missed somewhere early on in this that you were talking about +25/-5 stance angles on free RIDE board, not a free carve board. I suppose that changes things a bit, but I think what I was (and we were) saying still applies to some extent. Especially about straight line stability.

You wanna get real experimental and crazy? Try building a board that has symetrical sidecuts, but a softer heel side flex pattern induced by a toe edge to heel edge taper perpendicular to the long axis of the board and that runs continuously from nose to tail. It would probably have torsional stiffness issues, but I would be curious how something like that would ride.

[Pow]

No Jack, thats not me but... erm... I taught him everything he knows?

Ok so I'm a bad liar, but yeah that makes sense too. at high angles of inclanation i can imagine it would be difficult to keep the outside ski on the snow because of your inside foot getting in the way of your outside leg as well...

[John Gilmour]

Now that I have your attention, does anyone have an opinion (ha) on asymmetrical sidecuts?

I'm thinking about a custom FR board that would have a deeper sidecut on the heel.

Any thoughts would be appreciated, especially from the builders.

That board was made.. Fin used to ride it.. the Aggression stealth had deeper toesidesidecut (I hope I don't have this backwards) so you did not have to lean the board as much toeside to effect the same turn. So you could now ride more angled...an d not ahve your heelside overpower your toeside... ( I jus switched what I said..I wonder if my first statement was correct.. it it too late here...)

as you angle more forward your heel-side gets stronger.. so with more toeside sidecut.. you should be able to ride more angled yet still have a powerful toe-side...but biomechanically... you don't want to go too flat or you lose power.

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Starcraft replays

[NateW]

....Because your CG shifts aft on heelside, washing out is more of an issue.

I don't think it's a given that your CG shifts aft on heelside turns.

But that's not why I'm posting. I'm posting because I wanted to share this link, to information about the new Mervin board I mentioned up above.

http://gnu.com/index.php/2008/12/mervin-announces-the-gnu-park-pickle

Based on the idea that heelside turns require more leverage than toeside turns, the Park Pick will have a deeper sidecut on the heelside.

"Require more leverage?" I dunno about that. I'd have started that sentence with, "because your knees don't bend forward..."

[Kimo]

OK. The forward most point at which you can apply pressure to the edge shifts aft on your heelside carves.

[carver]

Anyone want a new HOT Logical 165 with a brand new top sheet color? On it once. I will post on the sale site.

[John Gilmour]

That is a great transition boar for someone who rides softies with low angles.

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Honda Crf150R History

[Rob Stevens]

"Require more leverage?" I dunno about that. I'd have started that sentence with, "because your knees don't bend forward..."

If I had horse legs, with 2 knees that bent in opposite directions, I'd be good.

What you said pretty much sums up why I want to do this.

If I can get it in a 175 with magnetraction, I'm in.

[Derf]

Nitro made the Pyro in the early 90s. The board was an asym twintip freestyle board. The heelside and toeside radius were different, but the tip and tail were symetrical, so they only had the have one model for goofy and regular.

You can see the 1991 model here.

[caspercarver]

i rode my asym f2 beamer today. don.t have any idea the sidecut but it is a 162. i was using my new td3 stepins. the amount of leverage/torque was incredible. i was making turns so sharp my body couldnt cash them a few times. thrown over the front. i can.t ride @ the low angles so i had it set up @ 55/6o. i was able to photo a comparsin between the swoard and the beamer. both toeside turns. i had a videogirl set to go with me but it was to cold, -18 and she backed out. first photo is asym. we are going tomorrow so maybe video to come.:)

[Cyrus the virus]

Give me a call I will built you one that works how you want!

[carvedog]

Now that I have your attention, does anyone have an opinion (ha) on asymmetrical sidecuts?

I'm thinking about a custom FR board that would have a deeper sidecut on the heel.

Any thoughts would be appreciated, especially from the builders.

I had the Santa Cruz asym freestyle in a 172 and I really liked it. That was the one with cueball style graphics and a "bite" out of the nose and tail on the heelside. It was a "symmetrical" twin tip with an asym sidecut. I got it because it was a 172 and I tend toward the longer (it was at the time) boards.

It carved pretty well and I rode a butload of powder on it at Big Mtn. It either started a little soft or I broke it down pretty quick.

Don't know if this really helps, but I have to get in on all these asym threads.

If anyone has a Mistral Ecstasy 167 (regular) hiding in their garage let me know. I still looking.

Nice work on busting out the Beamer casper.

[Gecko]

I rode a friends 172 SC asym that board was very nice, I really enjoy'd it

[tpalka]

Very cool, CasperCarver! I had the same feeling on my new asym, the Pogo Hardcore -- super fun to ride at our small-ish local resort... It turns very tight and rides very fast -- perfect for when the hill gets crowded over the holidays.

tom.

[Istvan]

I have to admit that I have never ridden an asym, hence my question: what makes you guys believe that tight and quick turns are results of the asym build or in other words: why would an asym shaped board turn tighter / quicker.

Thanks

[Gecko]

most of the Asym that I have ridden or built were 10cm offset from heel to toe so the 162cm that I have, behaves more like a 152cm with more swing weight.

[*Ace*]

Casper,

Judging by that look on your face it looks like you are having more fun on your F2 Beamer than your Metal Prior.

All this talk about asyms makes me want to take the PJ out of the closet.

Better yet, finally get my Crazy Banana boards drilled for inserts...

[tpalka]

why would an asym shaped board turn tighter / quicker.

The Hardcore is the only asym I've ridden so far -- it's fairly stiff, very short (156cm), and seems to have deep sidecuts (not sure on numbers). I'm sure a more modern symmetric slalom board would do the same... I just wanted to ride an asym because it's so different from my other boards, and I can experience my local resort in different/new ways :)

[GeoffV]

Very cool, CasperCarver! I had the same feeling on my new asym, the Pogo Hardcore -- super fun to ride at our small-ish local resort... It turns very tight and rides very fast -- perfect for when the hill gets crowded over the holidays.

tom.

Tom read the fine print on your TD3... You have just voided your warranty on your new TD3 by putting them on an asym board.:lol:

Pleeeeaaasse guys you can't tell me that you are loving your asyms and would want to ride it all day, all these boards are 15 plus years old. Yeah it might be fun for a run or two, but after that it gets old. I pulled out my old Burton 160 M6 asym and took a few runs with it for the ECES Retro day, 2 runs was enough for me. A Madd 158 will turn just as tight if not tighter and will handle A LOT better. The only new asyms in the market right now are the "The ONE" from pureboarding (unless there are others still making them in Europe). Every thing else is dated technology and will not come close in comparision to any alpine board made today.

Ok I just posted that to stir up the pot:boxing_sm:argue::D

L