Seeking experienced alpine rider for new binding feedback

[Neil Gendzwill]

32 minutes ago, Jack M said:

Many "softboot" carvers use quasi hardboots that only look like softboots, like the K2 Thraxxis, Ride Insano, etc.

That's why I think it's hilarious that Angry Snowboard craps on hardboots so much, he rides the K2 Thraxxis and Rome Black Labels.

[dhamann]

It’s all alpine steeze. A lot of younger ninjas demonstrate this at a high level in softboots. Rama tried in hards but you can see the struggle. Majority of hardbooters are more “mature”. I see less steeze in hardboot riding, generally speaking. All impressive in their own right and some do it extremely well. Some styles require different equipment to continue after those young ninja days pass by. Not impossible as there’s some 70 yr old guy in CO ripping softies with knapton still. Rare for most but possible for some. I’ll practice on my hardboots more before strapping into a metal binder of any kind given my empirical experience. Now how can I set up a quasi hardboot that meets my style and demands? And boards. We all do it. I can appreciate what Jason is doing. Not for everyone and a lot of factors come into play as with whatever works for you. Experimenting and progression is a good thing. 

[TLN]

47 minutes ago, Jack M said:

My understanding is that many Asian softboot carvers are significantly modifying/fortifying their gear, like with internal plastic battens in the boots, lace-up braces over the liners, and plastic tongues added to bindings.

It could be that. Also riders weight. I noticed lots of light weight riders on big BX boards. When someone 150 lbs riding BX board it will feel stiff and responsive. For me at 230lbs that's stiff board, that won't hold me in deep carve. I'd need .951 and alpine for that. 

 

never realized that @jason100 is from Chicago.

Too bad it's late to test anything in the area.

[Atom Ant]

Burton has a bindings with a "lip" on the side of the high back.  Not carve orientated, but I could see this being a starting point.  

 

 

[dhamann]

Jones apollo has a 5 degree pre-rotated highback with a “lip” as well. Boa’s near top of some “soft” boots can be a possible hindrance with too much “lip” or a third strap. K2 Thraxis has boa’s at each side and front. 

[scottishsurfer]

1 hour ago, Jack M said:

My understanding is that many Asian softboot carvers are significantly modifying/fortifying their gear, like with internal plastic battens in the boots, lace-up braces over the liners, and plastic tongues added to bindings.

 Exibit A my not so soft boots

[crackaddict]

Interesting day...  Some whiteout, some bootout, lots of adjustments, but ultimately these bindings ride great!  Feels a lot like a hardboot setup in terms of stiffness and power, crud busting and stability, but maintains some of that softboot steeze.

If it's less foggy tomorrow we'll post some better video, this is a just a taste.  The conditions were pretty horrible at this elevation (under the fog) but the bindings were well suited to the refrozen corn.

I consider the concept proven, hoping to see a lighter prototype in the fall.

 

 

[Odd Job]

Most people over-rely on their boot stiffness. Proof? Undo your booster and top two buckles on hardboots.

You should be still be getting it down and done. If not, you know why. (don't do this on steeeeeep terrain).

Edited April 1, 2022 by Odd Job

[Xargo]

4 hours ago, Odd Job said:

Most people over-rely on their boot stiffness. Proof? Undo your booster and top two buckles on hardboots.

You should be still be getting it down and done. If not, you know why. (don't do this on steeeeeep terrain).

This is so true. I actually sometimes ride my new Swoard EC12 boots with two top buckles and the booster open even though those boots are rather soft by hardboot standards in the first place. I'm still in the process of learning the art of EC though so I need the added support for that but my goal is to need less and less support the further I develop my technique.

Another interesting option is to use AT boots. Here's my second favorite setup atm. (EC12 + Contra ECC being the #1):

That's Nidecker Tracer 161G with F2 limited carbon bindings and Atomic backland carbon boots with DGSS springs. So damn fun board to ride and with the small footprint of those boots I can hug the slope even with pretty relaxed (30/37) angles (would have to go much higher angles with softboot setup). Also great for riding slush and pow. I did however crack the shell of earlier backland carbon model but it was covered by warranty and this 2022 model has the cracked area reinforced so apparently others had problems as well.

I hope I can get a wide Contra to go back to my favorite softboot bindings but atm. I don't have a wide enough board for that so I'm stuck with this kind of experiments.

That said I have tried a lot of softboot bindings here's my top 4 rating in order of preference:

Nidecker Kaon-CX

Salomon Quantum

Nitro Machine (with Phantom carver ankle straps)

Jones Apollo

The problem with Kaon-CX and Apollo especially is that the heel loop is so thick that it increases the binding+boot length so much that it becomes a bootout hell even though both bindings are great. Quantum heel loop is much slimmer so that allows lower angles with the same board width.

I ride Salomon Malamutes in size 270. I also have Insanos and Infuses but prefer Malamutes.

About that custom binding... I don't know if this is already in the process but the main thing why I wouldn't want to ride that is the "heel loop" overhang. If the design could be refined so that the boot+binding length could be minimized, I would definitely be interested in such a setup.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Xargo

[pow4ever]

18 hours ago, Odd Job said:

Most people over-rely on their boot stiffness. Proof? Undo your booster and top two buckles on hardboots.

You should be still be getting it down and done. If not, you know why. (don't do this on steeeeeep terrain).

i now do this as warm up.  hmmm i wonder what does it take to be able to do this on the steep?

[crackaddict]

A short clip from today.  Watch out for that crazy skier aiming right for me on a super wide empty run...  Head scratcher...

Will have more time next week to discuss the Talanian Power Strap on in more detail.

 

 

[Odd Job]

2 hours ago, crackaddict said:

A short clip from today.  Watch out for that crazy skier aiming right for me on a super wide empty run...  Head scratcher...

Will have more time next week to discuss the Talanian Power Strap on in more detail.

 

 

+1 to why I don't trust anyone and look back often enough to the point I feel like I'm losing some balance by doing so sometimes.

I'd personally tell the guy at the lift line he should learn how to make a turn and not use movement patterns that rely on getting a handout.

You could also start catching up to him and slapping your hand against your chest and tell him he's a ****ing retard who can't ride.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Odd Job

[jason100]

19 hours ago, crackaddict said:

A short clip from today.  Watch out for that crazy skier aiming right for me on a super wide empty run...  Head scratcher...

This was crazy scary seeing it live.

A big thanks to @crackaddict, James, for spending some time on this binding.  At the beginning of this post, I referred to myself as a 6 out of 10 rider.  Revision; 3 of 10.  

For 2 days, James rode this 3rd strap binding on insanely steep runs, through fog, freeze/thaw issues, poor grooming, ice chunks.  Jaw dropping impressive rider.

We talked through a few improvements/modifications.  Obviously way slimmer, bootout related solutions, and some flex improvements.  

[Jack M]

On 4/1/2022 at 8:58 PM, crackaddict said:

A short clip from today.  Watch out for that crazy skier aiming right for me on a super wide empty run... 

Almost looks deliberate, like maybe payback for you coming somewhat  close to them standing there. What do you think? Either way if I were you I’d be having words with that idiot to find out.
 

@jason100it seems to me that if you’re going to have a 3rd strap (which I would like), you don’t need this complex highback alignment system - all you would need is a highback and baseplate stiff enough for the extra torque of the 3rd strap, no?

For a 2-strap binding I agree highback alignment is a problem for people riding forward angles. 

[jason100]

29 minutes ago, Jack M said:

@jason100it seems to me that if you’re going to have a 3rd strap (which I would like), you don’t need this complex highback alignment system - all you would need is a highback and baseplate stiff enough for the extra torque of the 3rd strap, no?

For a 2-strap binding I agree highback alignment is a problem for people riding forward angles. 

Yes, at low-ish angles, I agree completely.  I will ponder some more.  Initially, I was trying to solve the issue for steeper angles on narrower boards but still using SBs (by 'narrow' I mean 19cm-ish.....or even for 25cm-ish boards where guys don't want boot out, larger foot sizes, etc...).  

[John Gilmour]

I , for sure,  would constantly “binding out” heel side on that.

[crackaddict]

So today was the first time I rode since testing the Talanian Strap On and only the third day on the new Coiler (the first two had been with the test bindings).  I found myself immediately missing the rigidity of the metal highbacks and the third strap...

These are good bindings, fun to ride.  Yes, they're way too long and way too heavy but they do offer many of the benefits of hard boots: the power transfer, the ability to hold way higher edge pressure and bash through surface imperfections as though they weren't even there...   Super smooth ride with precision control, the new Coiler felt way faster with these bindings.

I also noticed that the third strap kind of suspended my boot over the footbed and I wasn't feeling any of that ankle pain with deep heelside carves that has been bothering me all season.  I cringed at first sight of an all metal binding but they were surprisingly comfortable. 

To me, this binding presents an opportunity to get the feeling and the benefits of hard boots while still riding soft.   I'm sure many of you are thinking "why not just ride hard boots?" and I have a few reasons... 

First, I like soft boots for their increased lateral flex as well as the lower stance angles.  I feel more freedom of movement and I am able to tackle more of the mountain in softies.  Second is the walk from the parking lot ('nuff said, you all know what I'm talking about).  Third is the simple fact that I don't look like such a freak, I fit in with the snowboarders on softies even if (or maybe because) they don't understand how wildly different my setup is. 

But finally and most importantly is the simple fact that there are probably ten thousand times as many softboot snowboarders as there are hardbooters.  So if you're going to build and market a new product for snowboarding, it should probably be aimed at softbooters right?  99.9% of these softbooters have never tried hardboots and would be blown away by the performance of these bindings mounted on their favorite board.  So these are marketable; aspiring softboot carvers would buy and love these.  (Well maybe not in their current form but the next prototype is already in development.)

I honestly didn't mind the weight of the bindings (unless I was carrying the board or trying to ollie), I feel like the extra mass makes the ride smoother while carving and faster through flat traverses.  I'd like to see the placement of the pivot rotated toward the heel and away from the side of the board (for the front foot at least) and I'd like to see that pivot point moved lower as well.  Beyond that, if they were much lower profile (shorter total length) I would ride these regularly.

I have much more to say about these bindings and bindings in general, but not tonight I'm afraid...

[Carvin' Marvin]

On 4/3/2022 at 9:13 AM, Jack M said:

Almost looks deliberate, like maybe payback for you coming somewhat  close to them standing there. What do you think? Either way if I were you I’d be having words with that idiot to find out.
 

100% deliberate. You can almost see his two neurons forming the thought process. Prime bungholery right there.  If that constitutes getting to close to a stopped skier I would have bands of pitchfork laden skiers chasing me down every run. 

[yamifumi]

On 4/1/2022 at 8:10 AM, Odd Job said:

Most people over-rely on their boot stiffness. Proof? Undo your booster and top two buckles on hardboots.

You should be still be getting it down and done. If not, you know why. (don't do this on steeeeeep terrain).

Oh I rely on stiffness A LOT. I love it  

[lafcadio]

On 4/1/2022 at 2:10 AM, Odd Job said:

Most people over-rely on their boot stiffness. Proof? Undo your booster and top two buckles on hardboots.

You should be still be getting it down and done. If not, you know why. (don't do this on steeeeeep terrain).

I often ride like this on my rear foot, especially in softre conditions. 

[Colozeus]

omg that video was horrifying. wtf was that skier thinking?

[west carven]

howdy

the only thing this binding needs is locking the high back to the heel cup ... simple ... 

Technine Custom Pro DS Snowboard Bindings Plus Summit Riser Kit

[Jack M]

1 hour ago, west carven said:

the only thing this binding needs is locking the high back to the heel cup ... simple ...

Agreed, if you're going to have a 3rd strap, you don't need a rotating highback.

However a big issue with most softboot bindings is the flex of the baseplate.  With my Burton Genesis X (their stiffest at the time, with 4-hole discs) I could strap the boot in the binding (without me in it) grab the boot cuff by hand and flex it to the point the baseplate of the binding would lift off the board.  Put a 3rd strap and locking highback on most bindings and the baseplate will probably break without more reinforcement.

[bobdea]

3 hours ago, Jack M said:

Agreed, if you're going to have a 3rd strap, you don't need a rotating highback.

However a big issue with most softboot bindings is the flex of the baseplate.  With my Burton Genesis X (their stiffest at the time, with 4-hole discs) I could strap the boot in the binding (without me in it) grab the boot cuff by hand and flex it to the point the baseplate of the binding would lift off the board.  Put a 3rd strap and locking highback on most bindings and the baseplate will probably break without more reinforcement.

Yeah, for me the Now Odrives do that. If they were just a smidge stiffer in the base plate…… in some conditions it doesn’t bother me but I’ve realized it causes fatigue I thought it was my coiler was wearing me out and then I switched bindings and put the Nows on my tanker…. Now my tanker wears me out…..

[dhamann]

23 hours ago, Jack M said:

However a big issue with most softboot bindings is the flex of the baseplate.

base plates (and any equipment fixed/joined/mounted/strapped/clicked/etc. together) that don't flex forfeit body fatigue and sometimes body parts. as the saying goes, pick your poison. or just ride modern hardboot equipment suited to your enjoyment... whatever that is.