Seeking experienced alpine rider for new binding feedback

[crackaddict]

I want to try those Technines...

Gotta say though, I'm still a fan of the rotating highback idea: power directly to the edges but also flexibility in the fore/aft directions.  I expect a three strap design like the Technine will have to have a softish highback to keep some lateral flexibility, it could be way stiffer if it rotated.   

The power transfer on the Talanian Strap-On rivals hardboots while the lateral flex is similar to any high performance softboot carving binding.  I want to ride these in a lighter version with a way shorter length.

Another advantage of the rotating highback is that you don't have to lock and unlock it on every run.  Ski boarders don't need to unlock them because they stay on their feet on the chairlifts and won't get crushed under a low chair.  It may seem like a small detail but you already have three straps to buckle and with another mechanism to lock you'll never catch up with your friends riding Flow bindings on powder days...

 

 

[west carven]

howdy crackaddict

yeah! ... i hear you about small details ... my backfoot three straps got crushed when i sat with heavy kids on a busy day. i used to try and ride by myself or really stick my front foot really foward. after i put a cheap regular binding on the backfoot and found the range of motion on the backfoot was better and having the third strap on the front foot is were the power is anyways ... more for powder days only ... 

[TWM]

On 1/28/2022 at 3:13 PM, jason100 said:

The short story;  If you are an experienced alpine rider and are interested in trying out a different kind of snowboard binding concept that is built for carving, please PM me so we can set a time to discuss.

 

The slightly longer story;  I love our sport so very much, but out of frustration, because of shin/leg pain from hardboots, I am attempting to zero-in on a different way to attach yourself to a board.

At this point, I have a functional binding to be used with normal softboots on either an alpine board or a typical softboot board that you want to really carve on.  (Think old-school 3 strap bindings from the 80s, but with a bit of modification.)  This CNC machined aluminum and stainless steel version was created as a Proof of Concept.  Meaning that it is not pretty, overbuilt for safety, and can be difficult to get strapped into.  It is, however, fully adjustable and will fit most riders/boots/stances/boards (approx. 19 – 25 cm waist). 

At my age and since my carving skills are maybe a 6 out of 10, I am looking for someone who won’t ride it as gingerly as me, provide some feedback, make some fun turns, etc…  If you are not proficient with hardboots, this thing is not for you.

I am good with meeting at your mountain, depending on where that is.  I live in Chicago so lots of flights….or I can drive to Midwest destinations…..

Thank you all.  Jason

This makes lots of sense, a full solution for the problem that rotating highbacks, for lack of more rotation, only halfway solve. Any updates on your second generation design?

 

[jason100]

On 11/12/2022 at 11:20 AM, TWM said:

Any updates on your second generation design?

Thanks....this season it looks like I am going to attempt to improve the current version in two ways.  1.) by adding a bit of lateral flex into the upright arm for a more comfy ride when powering a turn or encountering a rut while on edge, etc... and 2.) a more comfortable third strap cuff spreading the load out a bit over a larger surface of the upper boot.  After those kinks are worked out, i will get back to the overall slimming process to get the thing to look less frightening, among other improvements.   All thoughts positive or negative are always welcome.

[Jack M]

@jason100If I understand correctly, it seems like you're trying to solve two mutually exclusive problems at once with one binding.  1, the problem of highbacks not rotating enough to be parallel with the board, and 2, the fact that nobody makes 3-strap bindings anymore.

If you have a 3rd strap, you don't need your highback to rotate at all.  It just needs to be strong enough (and so does the baseplate).  Much of the complexity of your design can be deleted in this case.

If you want to make a TWO-strap binding with a rotating highback that solves problem 1, then your design is on the way to solving that problem, but it doesn't need a third strap.  In fact, adding a third strap to it kills the benefit of having the highback out of the way of lateral/medial boot cuff motion.

[TWM]

On 11/14/2022 at 8:45 AM, jason100 said:

Thanks....this season it looks like I am going to attempt to improve the current version in two ways.  1.) by adding a bit of lateral flex into the upright arm for a more comfy ride when powering a turn or encountering a rut while on edge, etc... and 2.) a more comfortable third strap cuff spreading the load out a bit over a larger surface of the upper boot.  After those kinks are worked out, i will get back to the overall slimming process to get the thing to look less frightening, among other improvements.   All thoughts positive or negative are always welcome.

I think you're on the right track. Eager to see it reduced to its smallest and simplest form. 

[jason100]

On 11/14/2022 at 1:59 PM, Jack M said:

If I understand correctly, it seems like you're trying to solve two mutually exclusive problems at once with one binding.  1, the problem of highbacks not rotating enough to be parallel with the board, and 2, the fact that nobody makes 3-strap bindings anymore.

I re-read this post and there could be some confusion here....not sure.

Maybe a distinction between, say, the highback on the Technines (earlier in this thread) vs. the pivoting upright on my binding.

The Techniines, if they locked, look like fun to ride for sure.  And yes, I agree that without the highback locking, the third strap is somewhat useless, unnecessary, and can be deleted..  When "unlocked", the highback will fold in relation to the binding, and mostly toward the toe of the binding.  For example, if these bindings were mounted at zero degrees on both feet, the highbacks would fold completely toward the toe side edge, therefore when "unlocked", utterly useless for a toeside turn.

My binding is a big deviation from that concept.  The pivoting aspect of the upright on my binding gets mounted in relation to the board, not in relation to the binding.  IE; the upright and third strap can only move freely toward tip/tail, but cannot move freely laterally to the board.  For example, if you mounted my binding with YOUR FOOT at zero degrees (pause; I mean mounting your foot at zero, while the pivoting upright always is in the same position in relation to the board regardless of foot angle), when pressuring the third strap toward the toe side edge, you would have basically a "locked" highback because the upright doesn't move freely in either lateral (to the board) direction.  So at zero degrees, you can shift weight toward tip/tail as freely as your softboots will allow, similar to how you can shift weight in normal soft boot bindings (note that while riding, this is less tip/tail motion than you might think maybe inch or two because the soft boots will naturally restrict going too far....still allowing you to preload front of board if you so desire).  However, the moment you decide to pressure an edge by moving your leg laterally in relation to the board, the rigidity of the third strap is there to deliver that pressure directly to the edge because the upright is restricting lateral motion and channeling it to the edge.

I hope I am not leaving big gaps in this description.  I have been neck deep for so long that I forget where I am at.

[Jack M]

@jason100 ah, I see now, thanks.  So that is interesting.  As primarily a hardbooter I think I would want the option to lock the highback both laterally and longitudinally, assuming there is some flex in the system, but I'm not sure, I'd have to try it.

I'm trying to imagine riding these bindings at typically steeper binding angles for softboot carving, like 36/18 or something.  Does it make sense for the highback to allow freedom strictly along the long axis of the board then?  Will that feel natural or good?  I'm not sure, I'd have to try it.  Also there is possibly a safety issue.  It is possible, during a hard toeside carve, to stuff the nose and "go over the handlebars", hyperflexing your front ankle in the process.  @dhamann found this out the hard way, and is sitting this season out.   This binding encourages hard carving, but having total freedom longitudinally won't reduce/prevent that injury.

[Pusbag]

My gimp ass would mob it and give feedback but I'm in north Idaho 

[jason100]

@Jack M

Locking the upright 

This is something I have considered in the past, this would be easy to do, however, I am not positive it would be necessary, but maybe a case by case, rider to rider thing....for example, lock off at a selectable position in the tip direction could make sense...or lockoff in both tip and tail directions.  

 

Riding at 36/18

These angles are not far off from my set up with this binding, for me it feels like riding hardboots but more comfy (although, I still need to add some lateral flex and cuff padding to improve comfort, working slowly on that now).  If I remember correctly, @crackaddict normally rides 36/21 on his gear, but we steepened those angles a bit when he rode my binding last season.....so maybe a bit steeper than the angles you are thinking.

 

Preventing injury

Yes, I understand your mention of "stuff the nose" and that would be very bad for sure.  If this isn't solved by the limitations created by a riders softboots, then could be solved by the limitations created by locking the upright described above.

[west carven]

howdy jason100

with modern boots and bindings such a contraption that you think you need is not necessary. carving is a skill like a good dancer, it can be done with gear that is already available, work on your body mechanics.

[lordmetroland]

4 hours ago, west carven said:

carving is a skill like a good dancer, it can be done with gear that is already available, work on your body mechanics.

Man, that sounds like a lot of work. I think I'll opt for the short cut...

[jason100]

Hello again peeps. 

An update on progress since the prior version.  Two images below without straps.  Also, at the bottom of this post below is the old video (prior version) for how it operates.

 

 

[crackaddict]

Beautiful work @jason100!    Looks great, much simplified and much lower profile.  Can't wait to test ride the prototype.

Question: how much angle can I put on the front binding before the heel cup starts to push the boot heel forward?  And will I be able to compensate and center the boot over the board so that the toe and heel are equidistant from their respective edges at any reasonable angle?  I usually run about 27 to 33 degrees on the front foot but some guys in Asia are running upwards of 45 degrees. 

Maybe this can be accomplished by adding some additional holes on the heelcup so there are options to line up the heelcup pocket with the boot.  From the drawings it appears the boot heel will sit on one side of the heelcup and there will be a void created on the other side, potentially creating the opportunity for some heel movement within the binding.

[carvedog]

Looking really good. 

[jason100]

18 hours ago, crackaddict said:

Beautiful work @jason100!    Looks great, much simplified and much lower profile.  Can't wait to test ride the prototype.

Question: how much angle can I put on the front binding before the heel cup starts to push the boot heel forward?  And will I be able to compensate and center the boot over the board so that the toe and heel are equidistant from their respective edges at any reasonable angle?  I usually run about 27 to 33 degrees on the front foot but some guys in Asia are running upwards of 45 degrees. 

Maybe this can be accomplished by adding some additional holes on the heelcup so there are options to line up the heelcup pocket with the boot.  From the drawings it appears the boot heel will sit on one side of the heelcup and there will be a void created on the other side, potentially creating the opportunity for some heel movement within the binding.

Thank you @crackaddict.

So the max angle for this binding is +/-45 degrees.

Regrding your question; "And will I be able to compensate and center the boot over the board so that the toe and heel are equidistant from their respective edges at any reasonable angle? ".  Answer is yes, the mechanism solves that in two ways.  1.) you have mulitple board mount holes in the center disk which allow for shift toward toe/heel, 2.) As you change the foot angle, the heel bracket can be also adjusted to allow for heel bracket to be the same angle so the heel bracket always stays in the same orientation in relation to the board edge, and at the appropriate lateral distt from board edge.  That said, as this happens, during setup, the heel of the boot translates along the heel bracket.  I will try to send a video of that "translation" aspect of how the two parts (footbed and heel brkt) work together. 

 

Regarding your, "From the drawings it appears the boot heel will sit on one side of the heelcup and there will be a void created on the other side, potentially creating the opportunity for some heel movement within the binding." ...... this is a true statement but because the dist on footbed between ankle mounts is somewhat tight, the boot is forced to stay in position, even if the heel of the boot is not fully seated in the extreme cupped end of heel bracket because you are riding at less than the maxed out 45 degree foot angle.