Is a Skwal a snowboard?

[lowrider]

On 3/6/2010 at 10:44 PM, photodad2001 said:

Sorry, and I do agree this topic is not "OT". Actually I was a bit pissed about another thread after getting back from the bar last night and took it out on here. Others would argue that SB carving is "OT" and I was trying to bring the attention that this is a carving forum and gear doesn't change that unless for somereason you are on a Soft setup. Sorry for the unexpected surprise. But while I am here and it is up for discussion. The fact that the "hardboot" seems to over-ride and even negate the presence of a board according to those who've been hear longer. I'm a bit confused when it comes to the "mission statement" because this should be (just by on slope percentages and what the statement claims) primarily a skiers forum since of the hardboot community skiers way out number boarders.

I personally don't consider a skwal to be a snowboard (or mono ski) anymore than I would a slalom water ski to be a wakeboard (no offense, just basing it on the full on forward stance rather than the number of planks). [Notice I didn't say, "a skwal is not a board", but I consider it equal to the comparison of a wakeboard vs. a slalom waterski] I guess my question is this. "is this a hardboot forum or a carving forum?" If it is based on the boots I think I'll start a Boxers carving forum and if you wear Briefs it's off topic because you aren't wearing the gear.;) Again, my bad on pissing on your thread.:o

Revive a thread or start a war  lets have at'er. Have attitudes changed in ten years ?

[*Ace*]

For me it's always been a hybrid. A combination of both skiing and snowboarding. That's the genius behind it. The best of both worlds. Whenever I explain to someone what a Skwal is I always reference the two sports.

[Pusbag]

I consider it a hybrid. My reference is think slalom water-skiing for the snow and you get a skwal

[javajive]

A hybrid is fair enough. To my mind it isn't so much the boots or board profile that people like to point at as the body position imposed by the setup. There was an attempt to run a race series in France where each competitor had to use a skwal and mono ski because the technique is so different. There was a required third device, either telemark or alpine board, I forget which. I would have loved to watch. 

There are some funny comments on anything a bit out there. Jamie Barrow holds soft boot speed records in downhill and towed on a monster Kessler with predicable responses. 

Also this hardbooter: 

https://freecarvers.wordpress.com/2015/07/25/edmond-plawczyk-interview/ 

 

I lost the sound for reasons unknown. There are other search results. 

 

[Jack M]

I dunno, is a monoski a snowboard?

I think a good test for "is it a snowboard" is could a typical advanced/expert softboot snowboarder jump on it and link turns without instruction.  The answer is yes for alpine snowboards, so they are snowboards in my book.  FIS agrees.  I'm not sure the answer would be yes for a Skwal but I've never tried one.  I think the answer would be clearly no for a monoski unless the snowboarder also knew how to ski.  FIS says neither are snowboards.

[dredman]

Interesting...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowboard

and even more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skwal

[SunSurfer]

As an intermediate level carver a few years back I clicked into a Skwal USA Powder Skwal and was carving turns at an indoor ski slope in a run or two. Ditched my poles by Run 3 and had a ball. Binding setup is crucial for comfort, but using @Jack Ms test above, for me a Skwal is a snowboard.

[Jack M]

On 12/6/2023 at 11:36 PM, SunSurfer said:

As an intermediate level carver a few years back I clicked into a Skwal USA Powder Skwal and was carving turns at an indoor ski slope in a run or two. Ditched my poles by Run 3 and had a ball. Binding setup is crucial for comfort, but using @Jack Ms test above, for me a Skwal is a snowboard.

Yeah but that's not really what I meant, you're a hardbooter and high angle user already.  If you mount two bindings skwal-style on an alpine ski, does that make it a snowboard?  I don't think so.

[dhamann]

bump

[skhil]

On 12/13/2023 at 10:50 AM, Jack M said:

If you mount two bindings skwal-style on an alpine ski, does that make it a snowboard?  I don't think so.

It doesn't make it a skwal either. Alpine ski has different shape and stiffness pattern. To be fair mounting two bindings snowboard style on 2x8 also doesn't make it a snowboard.

As for @Jack M's test I agree with @SunSurfer. Skilled snowboarder can make turns on skwal without instructions. I'd expect some balance issues and general uneasiness due to being unable to initiate/correct turn with ankles movement. Not that I've seen someone trying skwalling without any hardboot experience, but generally people find transition softboot->hardboot harder than alpine->skwal.

[Jack M]

On 12/14/2023 at 11:17 AM, skhil said:

As for @Jack M's test I agree with @SunSurfer. Skilled snowboarder can make turns on skwal without instructions. I'd expect some balance issues and general uneasiness due to being unable to initiate/correct turn with ankles movement. Not that I've seen someone trying skwalling without any hardboot experience, but generally people find transition softboot->hardboot harder than alpine->skwal.

Hehe, I'd like to see that.  Softbooter with no hardboot or ski experience going to hardboots on a skwal would be entertaining.  I'd bet they would not be successful within the implied time limit of my test. 

I'm reminded of the one time @Beckmann AG had his crew of instructors mount our bindings opposite stance.  With my alpine gear it was horrible, as if I had never snowboarded before in my life.

[skhil]

1 hour ago, Jack M said:

On 12/14/2023 at 11:17 AM, skhil said:

 

Hehe, I'd like to see that.  Softbooter with no hardboot or ski experience going to hardboots on a skwal would be entertaining.  I'd bet they would not be successful within the implied time limit of my test.

I like that. It's a real scientific approach. We don't know the answer so we need to conduct a series of experiments to find if skwal really a ski or snowboard. Do you think FIS is willing to spare a small grant to support our groundbreaking research?

[Jack M]

51 minutes ago, skhil said:

I like that. It's a real scientific approach. We don't know the answer so we need to conduct a series of experiments to find if skwal really a ski or snowboard. Do you think FIS is willing to spare a small grant to support our groundbreaking research?

FIS has already declared the skwal is not a snowboard, so I'm guessing no.

[NateW]

This form of question always seems wrong to me, because the real question here isn't "is a skwal a snowboard" but rather "is it reasonable to use the word 'snowboard' for the thing that everyone calls a skwal?" In other words, it's not a question about skwals, it's a question about the scope of the word "snowboard."

For competition purposes, the FIS makes the rules, and their rules say that a sub-135cm snowboard needs to be at least 14cm wide, and anything longer needs to be at least 16cm wide. They felt they had to draw the line somewhere, and that's where they drew it.

But, I don't see any reason for that rule to exist. To me, "snowboard" describes a single board which is ridden with the feet attached front-and-rear (rather than side-by-side), regardless of width. So I'd say that it is reasonable to use the word "snowboard" for skwals. They're just skinny snowboards.

There's no phase-transition that separates narrow snowboards from less-narrow snowboards like there is between -1C ice and +1C water. For boards, it's just a continuum. The FIS chose an arbitrary point to separate snowboards from not-snowboards, but nobody else needs to.

[Corey]

Why would there be a name for a Skwal if a Skwal was a snowboard? 

[skhil]

With that argument you can also consider that a twin-tip or a splitboard are not a snowboards. I understand that historically someone might argue about that, but I doubt anyone would question it now.

[Lil Cybe]

As a skwal ec rider, my rule is simple. If you ride it in a ski style with poles, then the skwal is a monoski. If you ride it with alp snowboard techniques, then it is a snowboard.