barryj Posted February 11, 2021 Report Share Posted February 11, 2021 My black with green tongue 425's are barley two seasons old and just in the last couple of weeks the rear foot ankle buckle keeps popping open under a toe side carve!! This is the third buckle down on the stock photo below. I had been noticing the boot feeling like the upper popping forward ever so slightly when applying extra cuff pressure on moderate to aggressive toe side carves with my Thirst SF...but the buckle was still closed those times. I have the ankle buckle cranked down to the next to last slot but their comfortable enough to wear all day.....I've had no need to open the buckle to release pressure between runs. I am running red long/short blue BTS and Fintecs on these boots with TD3 SW SI's binders. Anybody seen this before?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurch Posted February 11, 2021 Report Share Posted February 11, 2021 Possible the second buckle is contacting & releasing it Barry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Donnelly Posted February 11, 2021 Report Share Posted February 11, 2021 (edited) One of the reasons I jumped into UPZ's was interference between #2 & #3 buckles on my rear boot on Track 700's. Edited February 11, 2021 by Pat Donnelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted February 11, 2021 Report Share Posted February 11, 2021 Yes I have... Also seen the second buckle come undone as well. Also seen the second and third buckle break under load. Also seen the wire side of the second buckle break under load. I no longer own a pair. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big mario Posted February 11, 2021 Report Share Posted February 11, 2021 I think your bts is the issue. I've been known to crank a turn or 2(just ask the guy in the post above),and have never had that issue running the lean adjusters. You may be over flexing the boot Mario Ps there's always duct tape! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Posted February 11, 2021 Report Share Posted February 11, 2021 I bet the green tongue is softening, starting to bow upwards under load, and popping the linkage from underneath. I don't have mine in front of me but I think the tongues MAY be exchangeable left to right. The back boot will always have been flexed more, so the front tongue may be less tired. I liked BTS in my AF600s but in the 425Pro (which I love) I run the lean adjuster locked in front and flex/lock in back. The boots are so snug, though (size 27/11.5EEEE Feet), that the buckles are barely done up and not under much tension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted February 11, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2021 Great info guys! Thanks!! Not sure how I could overflex the boot running cranked down Red long springs but my rear foot BTS forward lean was a little aggressive also. Also the heel buckle is fully extended/unscrewed to it's limit Tonight I've switched the long Red top springs to Long Blue top springs........so all blue BTS and backed off the forward lean about 1/3.......I was making these changes + lowering my TD3 cant ring from 6 to 3 to get more centered over the Thirst SF. Today was 1st day with running 3/3 and it was another day of improvement .....except for buckle blowing open repeatedly! I'll ride tomorrow and we will see if any of this helps or worsens the buckle issue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.E Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 Are you getting all the way cammed closed? I ask because if it's all the way out, the curve of the ladder may be riding on the tounge and further from the center of the cam over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kirk Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 I would try moving the anchor of the cable down a notch on the shell so that you are using the first or second slot on the end of the ladder instead of the 5th or 6th. dave 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimW Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 5 hours ago, barryj said: Great info guys! Thanks!! Not sure how I could overflex the boot running cranked down Red long springs but my rear foot BTS forward lean was a little aggressive also. Also the heel buckle is fully extended/unscrewed to it's limit Tonight I've switched the long Red top springs to Long Blue top springs........so all blue BTS and backed off the forward lean about 1/3.......I was making these changes + lowering my TD3 cant ring from 6 to 3 to get more centered over the Thirst SF. Today was 1st day with running 3/3 and it was another day of improvement .....except for buckle blowing open repeatedly! I'll ride tomorrow and we will see if any of this helps or worsens the buckle issue! Running less heel lift on your rear boot will probably result in you flexing your boot more. This may well worsen the buckle issue. If you stick to the 6deg cant and put your cuff more upright, your body position should stay similar, but with less rear ankle flex, and hopefully less unbuckling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aracan Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 13 hours ago, Pat Donnelly said: One of the reasons I jumped into UPZ's was interference between #2 & #3 buckles on my rear boot on Track 700's. Much as I like the fit of my UPZs, I find the interference between those buckles on them something else. I have already had to replace the ankle buckle on the rear boot because the fine adjustment was shot, and the new one shows serious wear after one season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Donnelly Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 Hey Barry, you just switched out from RED to BLUE springs which are softer, more flex. You may want to try heavier BRONZE springs at your size. Scroll to the bottom of page 1 in this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Donnelly Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 Are these boots the same ones worn during your catastrophic wipe out? If so, you may have stretched them a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chouinard Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 Work backward from the defect - Buckle pops open but but does not break. Why: Loss of latch tension. Why: Ends moving together allowing buckle to release. Why: Boot deforming during forward pivot. Why: Either forward lean springs too soft and boot deforms at end of travel OR forward lean springs are ok but initial lean pivot position too far forward forcing boot to deform at end of pivot to accommodate additional forward lean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimW Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 I'd guess it is not loss of tension, but the boot and tonque being flexed too much and the tongue pushing the buckle open. If you (almost) fold a curved part like the tongue, it will flatten out sideways. This will make it push against the buckle. If you twist the tonque to the inside before you buckle your boot (away from the buckle) this may help. But the real solution (if the cause is over flexing) is a stiffer spring/less forward lean on the boot. BTW my lemans boot sometimes opens as well on some days, other days I have no issues. I twist the tonque when this happens, but it will move back slowly while riding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted February 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 All good theories.......... My solution was to use the #3 slot instead of #4 slot and use the fine tuning adjustment to take up the slack. What I was seeing looking at the boot off my foot was when I buckled the ankle cable into the 4th..aka: next to last slot the tension was so tight that it was making the buckle hinge flex the plastic shell concave right at the hinge spot.....which probably counterweighted the buckle and then any (forward) pressure applied just popped the buckle open. So today using #3 slot No problems with the buckle .....and my turns have tightened up even more with being centered by decreasing forward lean using the 3/3 and Blue springs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 On 2/11/2021 at 3:49 PM, Pat Donnelly said: One of the reasons I jumped into UPZ's was interference between #2 & #3 buckles on my rear boot on Track 700's. Yup, this is common and it seems they never solved the issue. The old sb series did the same stuff.... not the end of the world but annoying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 I recall always having a "mushy" feeling on my Deeluxe ankle buckles. It just barely went over center when tight. Popped open rarely, but annoying when it did! Contrast that with a positive *snap* with most ski boots. UPZs definitely brought that snap back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowburn Posted February 14, 2021 Report Share Posted February 14, 2021 This might be apples to oranges in comparison between Deluxe and UPZ but I noticed with my UPZ XC12 (very flexy) verses my RC12 (stiff) was the flexy boots were more likely to unbuckle if I didn't have my buckles tensioned evenly (equally) between all buckles. Especially if they were set too loose. RC12's because of less flex or movement seems less finicky. FWIW, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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