Lonelyest sport on the planet

[lowrider]

1 hour ago, Kneel said:

I didn't progress nor learn a GD thing about carving at MCC 1.  In fact, I regressed to a knuckle-dragging pow rider... 

And i bet it was more fun than you had as a kid !

[dgCarve]

On 12/3/2020 at 12:00 PM, Chouinard said:

Maybe this is your problem...it's their loss.

 

Maybe you should watch this about a hundred times...

 

This is Alexey from this forum. He is great rider, but even he admits that this style has too many limitations. He is promoting more "like" racing style (free ride adaptation of racing style) now. And I do share same view with him...

[Kneel]

46 minutes ago, 1xsculler said:

That’s not very encouraging!  Any decent snowboarder, even me, can ride powder, some a lot better than others, of course!

Why did you not learn a GD thing about carving?

 

Perhaps I did learn one thing.  Always bring a powder board to MCC...just in case...because it's really hard to carve in +3' of pow...even after it's been groomed...and Turner makes some of the best GD burgers going...and @big mario's name is not really Mario and he's from Jersey...and if you fly in/out of Kalispell take an extra day to ride Whitefish because you stare at it from the airport and say "why am I getting on a plane and not riding Whitefish..." 

[1xsculler]

That is the best carving vid I’ve seen and I am working on that 100 times goal. Maybe I can get that angulation in my dreams if not on the slopes. 
I sure do wish the audio was accurately translated into English, though. 
concerning MCC: if not learning a GD thing was a serious comment it reminds me of 2005. I got so I could carve a half dozen linked up pencil line turns on chair 9 at Crystal. I knew I was still pretty much a novice carver but I thought an Expression Session at Aspen was just what I needed to progress to the next level so I made a four day trip down there. The first  morning I rode up the lift to meet Doyle at the top and he said, “follow me.”  That was the last time I saw him because the slope was just a little steeper than I was used to and I had not a prayer of doing anything but skidding back and forth down the hill like 99.9% of the other snowboarders. I don’t remember if they had clinics then but, “I didn’t learn a GD thing.” I drove back to Grand Junction, hopped a flight to Salt Lake and went to Alta to ski a couple of days of bottomless pow. 
re boring: I fully expect good, zero skid carving on groomers to become boring pretty quickly especially when you almost always have to do it by yourself BUT I am determined to learn that parlor trick before moving on. After 65 years of skiing, as much as I love it when I am doing it with good skiing buddies or grandkids, I have no interest in getting better nor do I have any interest in learning to snowboard better but the well carved turn on an alpine board and hard boots will consume me until I can, once again, look myself in the mirror and tell myself I can do it. 
If you’ve read this far you have toooo much spare time on your hands!

 If I got to MCC and it was not grommers conducive to a budding carver I would consider it wasted time I should have spent banging my head against a wall at Crystal. Sounds pretty stupid, I know, but that’s where I am at. 
 

[dgCarve]

4 hours ago, 1xsculler said:

That is the best carving vid I’ve seen and I am working on that 100 times goal. Maybe I can get that angulation in my dreams if not on the slopes. 
 

Using this style your quads always will be a problem, period. If you ride 100% like that, your quads will be done in 2 hours, if you are really strong. For most people quads will be done in 30 min...
This style is not safe, as you will not be able to quickly change direction of travel, and you will have to slow down by going perpendicular (or up the hill) to the fall line. Bumpy surface always will be a problem, as this style promotes "direct" pressure on edge, every bump will be hitting your legs quite hard. This style requires good flat surface, if there are bumps - just go home.... Soft snow always will be a problem, as this style tends to overload the nose of the board (for this style better order a board with very stiff nose).
You have to be very flexible for this style - if you can not rest your breast on your front knee, your never will ride well using this style.

Just some of my learnings (including from personal experience) about this CMC style...

Carve Curt Master is the first who introduced this style of carving:

P.S. If you want to be good at CMC, concentrate on moving shoulders - all movements initiated by moving shoulders in this style. In the video you can see that very well when Curt is dong fast small turns.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by dgCarve

[pow4ever]

I am sure there is a bit of tongue in cheek on not learning anything.

Session is all about what you make of it.
Finding "your people" is critical.
People who have similar goal/riding skill/tempo/pee-pee-poo-poo schedule and etc.

Pushing each other and sharing similar break through are how life long winter friend are made.
inexplicable bond form when you "conquer" a trail together that had you shake in your boots before.

warm up; explore, find trials that you feel comfortable with.  in no time; people will intrinsic group up.
A quick smile/good attitude goes a long way.  Ask someone to take a ride with you on the trail you pick; not the other way around.  If I am worry about not dying; I won't be paying much attention to someone else's struggle.  

Great rider doesn't equal to good teacher; "just do X/Y/Z/" seems simple but down right impossible when you are missing the prerequisite.  Have a systematic way to eliminating what doesn't work and focus on what work.  Incremental improvement.  Be pragmatic and set realistic goal:  If all I ride is green trial; it's no wonder blue/black trail seems difficult. 

Having fun is why we do this.  don't let the cart pull the horse.

[Corey]

2 hours ago, pow4ever said:

Having fun is why we do this.  don't let the cart pull the horse.

Well said! If you think you won't have fun at an event, you probably won't. 

BTW: Never try to keep up with Fin. I had a similar experience, except I just connected and rode with other people instead. Fin put the "bomber" in Bomber. (Not really, but he likes to go fast!) 

Also: MCC #1 was waist deep powder all the time. Hard to learn much carving there. 

[Kneel]

Lest anyone missed the sarcasm in my original post, MCC1, while it was a sub-par carving trip, it was in fact one of the best GD pow trips I've ever been on.  The guys that COULD carve the groom left foot deep trenches. 3 of the 4 days it snowed.  Nonstop. You could find clean lines from the first to last lift.  It was as annoying as it was glorious. I came to carve and was forced to ride waist deep powder for three days straight...

[Neil Gendzwill]

In years past there have been clinics that are quite helpful for many people. Also there are some riders who are happy to take some laps with you and give informal advice. 

My opinion is that if you are older, setting a goal of riding like Alexey or Curt is doomed to failure. It looks cool but you don’t need to get that low to carve well.

Not sure what they’re planning this year as the guy who teaches the clinics normally will not be there. 

[big mario]

51 minutes ago, Kneel said:

Lest anyone missed the sarcasm in my original post, MCC1, while it was a sub-par carving trip, it was in fact one of the best GD pow trips I've ever been on.  The guys that COULD carve the groom left foot deep trenches. 3 of the 4 days it snowed.  Nonstop. You could find clean lines from the first to last lift.  It was as annoying as it was glorious. I came to carve and was forced to ride waist deep powder for three days straight...

See, that's the thing about Jersey, you learn sarcasm before you learn to talk.

Just sayin

[1xsculler]

5 hours ago, big mario said:

See, that's the thing about Jersey, you learn sarcasm before you learn to talk.

Just sayin

I suspected sarcasm and if presented with two to three feet of pow I’d want my skis or a good pow board and not an alpine carving board. The mountain pounding would be a lot of fun but it would get me no closer to my goal. 
Some of the other info/opinions presented here are somewhat discouraging though...not enough to deter me just yet. 

[1xsculler]

12 hours ago, dgCarve said:

Using this style your quads always will be a problem, period. If you ride 100% like that, your quads will be done in 2 hours, if you are really strong. For most people quads will be done in 30 min...
This style is not safe, as you will not be able to quickly change direction of travel, and you will have to slow down by going perpendicular (or up the hill) to the fall line. Bumpy surface always will be a problem, as this style promotes "direct" pressure on edge, every bump will be hitting your legs quite hard. This style requires good flat surface, if there are bumps - just go home.... Soft snow always will be a problem, as this style tends to overload the nose of the board (for this style better order a board with very stiff nose).
You have to be very flexible for this style - if you can not rest your breast on your front knee, your never will ride well using this style.

Just some of my learnings (including from personal experience) about this CMC style...

Carve Curt Master is the first who introduced this style of carving:

P.S. If you want to be good at CMC, concentrate on moving shoulders - all movements initiated by moving shoulders in this style. In the video you can see that very well when Curt is dong fast small turns.

 

 

I understand, and have experienced almost everything you stated re bumpy terrain, not being able to change direction easily (because you have to skid out to do that) and your carve is gone, burns up quads, etc., etc. On the positive side is that feeling of staying high on your edges and feeling the turn being dictated by the bend and SCR of the board...the g force of those turns is addictive even if having to rest after linking up only a few turns. 
While CMC may be a little radical what other kind of hard boot alpine carving is there except for EC which I have no interest in?

[SunSurfer]

18 minutes ago, 1xsculler said:

While CMC may be a little radical what other kind of hard boot alpine carving is there except for EC which I have no interest in?

CMC is riding seriously bent forward at the waist. Not a suitable style for anyone my age (61) or older, or with tight hamstrings or lower back issues.
Lots of beautiful carving stylists out there that aren't doing EC, or scrunched up like CMC.
I've curated a whole lot of Bomber SES & ATC playlists on YouTube. Take your pick of the styles on offer.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbFkVPcmsd5oH-Oe0s3LEMw/playlists

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by SunSurfer

[dgCarve]

1 hour ago, SunSurfer said:

CMC is riding seriously bent forward at the waist. Not a suitable style for anyone my age (61) or older, or with tight hamstrings or lower back issues.
Lots of beautiful carving stylists out there that aren't doing EC, or scrunched up like CMC.
I've curated a whole lot of Bomber SES & ATC playlists on YouTube. Take your pick of the styles on offer.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbFkVPcmsd5oH-Oe0s3LEMw/playlists

 

I agree here. I personally think about CMC as extreme Bomber substyle (even though this technically may not be correct ). You still can ride Bomber style just fine with more straight legs, upright body, and good angulation.  Your quads will be much happier .

[Neil Gendzwill]

Not that I hold myself up as an example people should emulate but I am an older guy with limited flexibility. If you look at my avatar I am managing to flex the board substantially without being compressed into a ball. 
 

If you look at this video from SES a few years back, the start has a few of us riding down a powdery bumpy pitch at Buttermilk. You can see how a more erect style lets you ride in mixed conditions like that whereas if you tried to ride it like CMC you’d be in trouble. I doubt he would approach that pitch in that style anyway. 

[pow4ever]

it's a combination of rotation + push/pull + angulation but how much of each is personal/find what work for you.
Make your own style.

re Fin/trust is another thing (Guess what I am trying to say is don't take it personal):  many of us have been hit from behind by carver we are trying to help.
No good deed goes unpunished.  riding fast could be a defensive mechanism.

lesson I learned:  Don't follow too closely; give the leader plenty of room.  Communication is key. 

[Allee]

On 12/8/2020 at 12:51 PM, 1xsculler said:

 I knew I was still pretty much a novice carver but I thought an Expression Session at Aspen was just what I needed to progress to the next level so I made a four day trip down there. The first  morning I rode up the lift to meet Doyle at the top and he said, “follow me.”  That was the last time I saw him because the slope was just a little steeper than I was used to and I had not a prayer of doing anything but skidding back and forth down the hill like 99.9% of the other snowboarders. I don’t remember if they had clinics then but, “I didn’t learn a GD thing.” I drove back to Grand Junction, hopped a flight to Salt Lake and went to Alta to ski a couple of days of bottomless pow. 

 If I got to MCC and it was not grommers conducive to a budding carver I would consider it wasted time I should have spent banging my head against a wall at Crystal. Sounds pretty stupid, I know, but that’s where I am at. 
 

So in other words you went to Aspen, had a single bad run, and quit. if you ever want to make sure that you don't learn a GD thing, that's absolutely the right way to go about it. I went to Aspen the same year. I rode by myself some and enjoyed being outside on the snow, before I smiled at some other people, made friends, rode with them for the rest of the trip and learned a sh!t ton.

I also went to MCC last year, and the first day was a disaster. it was flat light (my least favorite conditions), the groom was sketchy, it was icy, and Turner is a steep hill, much steeper than I'm used to. I rode like a beginner (not that I'm an expert rider, but bad even for me) and ended the day thinking that the trip was going to be an expensive mistake. But the next day the sun was out, the groom was better, and I ended the week taking a demo board down one of the steepest runs I have ever been on, linking turns the whole way. Success. Because I didn't quit on Tuesday.

I can pass on some lessons I've learned from Olympic weightlifting. I started this sport old, and I was BAD at it. It's a sport that demands mobility, athleticism, dedication and a fair amount of sacking up and shoving weights over your head, while thinking all the time that you're going to die. I look at elite lifters on TV and can only frigging wish I moved like that, but I don't and I never will. But after three years of turning the hell up every day, and doing what my coach told me even when it sucked, I'd developed my own style. It's not pretty, but it was effective enough to win me a medal at World Masters last year. And along the way, I'd stopped focusing on the results I got (which when I started, I was ALL ABOUT) and fallen in love with the process. I have to fight to add every kilo to my total when the 20 somethings in the gym PR every time they turn up, but that doesn't matter. My mobility and strength are as good as they've ever been, and from that viewpoint alone that's a win, ever damn day. It's my sport and I love it.

This is where you're at. Admire the guys in the videos, but acknowledge that's never going to be you. Sometimes good "for you" has to be enough. If you do nothing but focus on the negatives, you can't complain that everything IS negative. At your age, the fact that you're riding at all is an achievement. Take that as a starting point. Listen to what you're being told (which you don't seem to be good at). Get out there, accept that some days are going to be better than others, have fun, enjoy yourself, and take every small win you can. And over time, those might even add up to a big win, who knows.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Allee

[dgCarve]

Can't agree more. Enjoy the process of learning. Keep working - there will be good days and bad days. It is OK. Do not think that if you can not carve clean on blues or blacks, that it is a problem. No it is NOT! Winning Olympics is not your goal. You do not need to prove anything to anyone. Choose the slope you comfortable with, and keep learning and practicing specific things. Enjoy the process. Sooner or later it will come to you.

Edited December 9, 2020 by dgCarve

[1xsculler]

Thanks for all of the good advice.  I’ll bang some runs out tomorrow and, hopefully, Friday too.  I know I’m close to linking up a half dozen skid free turns.

[Chouinard]

On 12/8/2020 at 2:17 PM, dgCarve said:

This is Alexey from this forum. He is great rider, but even he admits that this style has too many limitations. He is promoting more "like" racing style (free ride adaptation of racing style) now. And I do share same view with him...

My intent was to add structure to the learning curve instead of looking for support from like minded individuals among  the forum...confirmation bias.

If the intention is to “look like someone else” then forget about it.  
 

Experiment with all styles/techniques, use what your physical constraints allow and start riding/surfing/shredding/making turns. If you don’t have withdrawal symptoms at the end of the season then maybe you should try something else...that’s all.

[dgCarve]

Yep, that video indeed is very structured and really good!
Alexey has another tutorial for free ride adaptation of racing technique. If you do not mind using translator from Russian, you can find it here:

http://www.onedge.ru/forum/viewforum.php?f=34&sid=f1949d875c15f552fa3af50c64d68338

[Corey]

1 hour ago, Allee said:

Get out there, accept that some days are going to be better than others, have fun, enjoy yourself, and take every small win you can.

This whole post is freaking awesome!  Great words to live by. 

[1xsculler]

35 minutes ago, Corey said:

This whole post is freaking awesome!  Great words to live by. 

Totally agree!

 I thought I was the only one whose turns were disrupted by bumps and soft snow, etc.  The comments posted here have put a whole lot of things that have been driving me crazy into perspective.

I’m going to go up and bang out turns tomorrow and Friday!  Maybe a few under the bottom part of Rex and chair 9 and Queen. 

[1xsculler]

On 12/8/2020 at 6:51 AM, jng said:

Really it shouldn't. As much as I love Crystal for off-piste, it has mediocre carving terrain with subpar grooming. Mission Ridge is the best carving mountain in the WA Cascades.

MCC is less than an 8 hr drive away for you. If you're serious about getting better, you need to get there. No amount of forum advice will substitute. 

I feel better about my slow progress when you say Crystal has only mediocre carving terrain and subpar grooming as I do find myself fighting both. 

[pow4ever]

There are gold on them hills/(this thread is indeed gold).

I myself is also a niche carver -
When star align; i am decent but those day are far and few in between. 

"Everyone is faking it; some just hide it better than other"

‘We thought of life by analogy with a journey, a pilgrimage, which had a serious purpose at the end, and the thing was to get to that end, success or whatever it is, maybe heaven after you’re dead. But we missed the point the whole way along. It was a musical thing and you were supposed to sing or to dance while the music was being played.’ -- Alan Watts