AT ski boots for plates?

[pow4ever]

22 hours ago, softbootsurfer said:

These, are the Phantom Flex system, for the Back Lands AT boots...good machining, extra parts and easy install...

thanks to the Phantom  

Thank you for sharing!
Any on snow review/thoughts?  Which binding are you running with it? any fitment issue?

[softbootsurfer]

Have some F2 Carve plates, seem to be a good fit? ...the boots are comfortable, many years ago, I tried AT boots low tops on a 150 Rossi thing, had a friend that surfed that system beautifully..it was Fun, I preferred to stay soft, having just come off lange ski boots for 16 seasons of Bump Skiing ...I am a little concerned about the Cowboys length at 173, really thinking a 160 something would be better with all this additional torque...Annie and Bryan come to mind when that torque can come back up at you, anyway, happily using my SB set up until the right time comes along...not really qualified to discuss HB issues either... Cheers

[dudedude]

Just came back from the first test day with the backlands + link levers combo on a regular board. These things are amazing! Feels just like riding with a stiff soft boot (usually use malamutes) without any squishing of toes or ankles from straps. Didn’t try any moguls today, but the boots had enough flex to soak up smaller bumps, and there was enough stiffness to drive reasonable carves on groomers. Next trip I’ll have to see how they do on an alpine board. 

The backlands fit perfectly into a standard set of f2’s with no slop at all. I swapped the liner out for a pair of older intuitions and had no problems with comfort or cold feet.

[nutmeg]

On 12/5/2019 at 3:19 PM, Lifeform said:

Agree with others, great boots, tried them in store, if I return to HB it will be 1st on my list, price is even greater 150 eur normal and  260 eur carbon

Thought this sounded absurdely cheap. Afaict the street prices More like €350/€500.

[Lifeform]

15 hours ago, nutmeg said:

Thought this sounded absurdely cheap. Afaict the street prices More like €350/€500.

150 eur was price in local store, same price was on ebay, also bought Driver X for 145 eur, all new of course 

[pow4ever]

18 hours ago, dudedude said:

Just came back from the first test day with the backlands + link levers combo on a regular board. These things are amazing! Feels just like riding with a stiff soft boot (usually use malamutes) without any squishing of toes or ankles from straps. Didn’t try any moguls today, but the boots had enough flex to soak up smaller bumps, and there was enough stiffness to drive reasonable carves on groomers. Next trip I’ll have to see how they do on an alpine board. 

The backlands fit perfectly into a standard set of f2’s with no slop at all. I swapped the liner out for a pair of older intuitions and had no problems with comfort or cold feet.

Nice!!  Do you have the carbon or non-carbon backland?
I got the carbon version and been wear it around the house/office feels pretty good with some minor hot spot.
Did you took it to the shop to mold/memory fit?  Any shop recommendation for memory fit molding?
The shop near me have not heard of Backland... 

[pow4ever]

5 hours ago, Lifeform said:

150 eur was price in local store, same price was on ebay, also bought Driver X for 145 eur, all new of course 

Sounded like a perfect arbitrage opportunity
I am sure it will sell if you can get it for that low price.  Heck I will take a pair at 200 eur. 

[dudedude]

6 hours ago, pow4ever said:

Nice!!  Do you have the carbon or non-carbon backland?
I got the carbon version and been wear it around the house/office feels pretty good with some minor hot spot.
Did you took it to the shop to mold/memory fit?  Any shop recommendation for memory fit molding?
The shop near me have not heard of Backland... 

I have the carbon ones. Went down the home-brew route (baked the boots with liners) and gained a few mm of very needed clearance for my foot "features". Super easy to do - just toss them in the oven for ~10 mins, slip in footbeds, buckle them down "loose", and wrap them in ice packs to cool down. I did the boot fit using the original liners, then did a fit of the intuitions using a microwaved rice bag. 

[pow4ever]

Thank you!  Dudedude!  great info.  Now the 2 things I am not good at but together; cooking and carving lol

[dudedude]

Got to test the backlands this past weekend on my Dupraz D++ in some fresh powder and tight trees. These things continue to impress - they worked great driving through/over the bumps between the trees, so check the box on handling in moguls.

Only my second time using bail bindings on a regular board, but very much appreciating the convenience of knowing that the boot tightness is consistent between runs without fiddling with ratchet straps. Plus getting in/out was easy compared to my usual Upz since the heel on the backland did not ice up - maybe just got lucky this time. Again, no issues with cold feet despite the boots being pretty consistently covered in snow. 

One little note, I ended up applying some loctite to the black piece at the end of the lever, wasn’t quite ready to trust the jam nut to keep it in place. 
 

Anyone tried the lever setup on an alpine board with groomers yet?

[philw]

I could not get Phantom to respond to email, so one of my US mates ordered some of these for me. They eventually turned up in the US, now on route to BC where I'll use them in a day or two. Apparently they're well built. As you can see:

• at least some of the tools needed to fit them are supplied. 
• they ship all the different spring strengths, which is nice.

Edited December 19, 2019 by philw

[philw]

Just finished day two riding crotch-deep powder in the BC back country using the Backland boots with the Phantom levers.

They're smaller and cuter that website images suggest, quite discrete really. They're easy to fit, although I've not had time to figure out how to swap the springs yet. Mine have the gold (next-to-stiffest) fitted as I requested. I mounted the front with minimum forward  lean, the back with maximum. 

I rode one day on a Burton One Hitter (a plank), then the second on a Skeleton Key (a decent board). The boots... just work, they're pretty much the same as my HSPs. They feel skinnier but in minus 10 they're warm enough. They do feel light, not sure if that's real or not. The springs seem a bit easy to over power, so I suspect I'm not really using whatever the give. Maybe I should experiment with the other stiffness springs, but I'm not sure if I really want flex anyway.

So in summary:

1. they do what I needed them to do, which is give me increased forward lean
2. they work fine in deep snow, easy enough to get in/out, possibly slightly easier than Intec.
3. I'm using my standard F2 bindings with 1-degree toe lift on the front and 3-degree heel lift on the back. 

[b0ardski]

thought I'd crosspost this as it fits here,

if we could only get a light AT boot with interchangeable heels ,pintech/fintech/intech/DINtech

One boot to rule them all bwaahaaahaa

I've ridden SB's since "95 and have never used a spring system on them. My blax/head had a spring sytem, but it wasn't very adjustable I like the low profile of that Prime spring but I reallllly want walk mode too like the Backland/Phantom,

pllleeeaaasssee Atomic, put a swapable heel on the backlands for us please, I'll give you a $1000.

[lonbordin]

42 minutes ago, b0ardski said:

pllleeeaaasssee Atomic, put a swapable heel on the backlands for us please, I'll give you a $1000.

Don't plead to us @b0ardski 

Direct your pleading to someone who could make that happen, Matthew Manser aka One Nerdy Kid on Instagram and willing to engage on discourse on the newschoolers forum:

https://www.newschoolers.com/member/onenerdykid.134699/Profile

[b0ardski]

thanks for the link lonbord, I will be composing an appropriate request over the holiday

[Lurch]

@philw the lock mechism for walk/ride mode seem solid?

[philw]

3 hours ago, Lurch said:

@philw the lock mechism for walk/ride mode seem solid?

Yes, I hated the mechanisms on every hard boot I've owned (Dunafit 3F Comp S, Rachlie 424, Deluxe Indy, Head SP) as they would always slip into Walk Mode now and then, and I never used "walk" mode anyway... I can drive and run and cycle and even dance in f-ing ski boots, I don't need no stinkin' walk mode.

The levers lock into walk mode in a slightly different way from the Atomic levers (which rely on spring pressure), but they are solidly in there. The mechanism is a slot in a block which clips over the Atomic bar. It feels tight as it engages, which is presumably why it doesn't move. That's been solid, and nothing's moved. The actual connection to the plate in the boots has a little movement in it, but that doesn't seem to be a problem.

Springs.. I suspect that I overpower these, but until I take my camera out I can't be sure. I guess I don't much care as they seem to work. If anyone has worked out how to switch the springs over, it would in be interesting to hear. I'm unlikely to look at that whilst the snow is good and the helicopters are flying. I assume the main rods screw out, but I'm thinking I'd need something to grip and rotate them if so (I have such things at home, not here). They ship with three spanners, which seems to be one more than I can find a use for.

 

[Grip]

Bump what dudedude asked... 

Anyone review their setup on groomer runs vs their normal hardboot setup? 

[Mr.E]

No personal experience, but I was chatting with another rider who uses Backlands on his split and UPZ for carving. He couldn't imagine riding the Atomic on his race decks and not breaking an ankle. I'm about 210 and he's in the 220-240 range, so we were discussing it specifically in that context. He could see using them to access resort powder, but that was the extent of his comfort zone.

[pow4ever]

Feel fine to me in term of on-piste hard pack carve.

me: ok rider, 195lb in decent shape.

setup:  

Deeluxe Track 700 with BTS (incumbent) with extensive boots work; punch out toe box
Atomic Backland Carbon with DGSS, pretty bone stock; no molding done.

The size of the shell are "identical"; maybe off by 1mm.
which make for a true apple to apple comparison.
same binding(width/angle)/board

I don't feel the Backland is too short/low but it does seems quite soft even with DGSS hard spring(Blue).
Going to see if i source stiffer spring.

on easy trail:  i don't feel much difference in term of performance; as long as the technique are solid. 
i preferred stiffer setup as I can easily overpower the Atomic back boot:  quad burn, delay in response(minor)
 
on more challenge trail:  mind you Atomic didn't have any work done.  There are only 2 buckle so feeling some pressure/hot spot,  getting heel lift because too soft I think.

Didn't feel much difference in term of warmth at around 10 degree F.
Maybe with taller liner, some boot fitting/molding, stiffer spring Atomic Backland should work well for Freecarve.
Check the extremecarving forum: people are using Backland already with good result.

YMMV and this is just one view point.
For now I will stick with my track700 until stiffer Spring/boot fitting are done.

[lonbordin]

So ski boots have a flex rating, the current backland carbon is 110. I've spoken to several bootfitters who held either my DeeLuxe 425s or my UPZ RC11 in their hands. Their most generous flex guess was 100 for both. So when we measure flex is it in one plane or all around?

[pokkis]

10 hours ago, pow4ever said:

I don't feel the Backland is too short/low but it does seems quite soft even with DGSS hard spring(Blue).
 

Do you have stiffer or softer tongue in use?

[pow4ever]

11 hours ago, lonbordin said:

So ski boots have a flex rating, the current backland carbon is 110. I've spoken to several bootfitters who held either my DeeLuxe 425s or my UPZ RC11 in their hands. Their most generous flex guess was 100 for both. So when we measure flex is it in one plane or all around?

you hit the nail on the head.  How do we measure?  what are we measuring?
When UPZ become popular; there are people report that it's a stiff boot.  I got a pair and find it to be quite soft.
It can be tuned with different tongue, cuff, spring system to suite individual taste.
Point is that "feel" only provided part of the data set.
 
Are ski boots flex rating relatively universal (across model/brand)?
In my mind:
There is subjective flex -- how stiff the boots "feel" with hand/foot, carpet surfing
There is measurable flex -- how stiff the plastic/data points 
There is functional flex -- how stiff the setup work as package (liner/tongue/spring change the feel of a boots in a big way).
Currently it's too functional soft for my riding. 
I only got about ~2 early season days so I am fighting both the boots and early season cobweb.
With proper boot fitting/liner/tongue I am hoping that it will work well for that "one boot to rule them all":  on/off piste, carving/powder, ski and etc.
It's light weight and seems very well thought out/engineered. 

2 hours ago, pokkis said:

Do you have stiffer or softer tongue in use?

My package only came with one set of Tongue.  Black tongue.
@TVR mentioned that I rode much better with my Track than the Backland.
I attributed that I am overflex/over power the boots so the timing is off.  could also be the amount of forward lean.
Need T.O.M. to sort it out for me.

it's this version:

[pokkis]

I have black one which is very flexy and orange which is quite stiff (to that boot ). I got only orange but bought black afterwards.

Orange is full solid plastic, black has additionally softer meshed parts.

[pow4ever]

19 minutes ago, pokkis said:

I have black one which is very flexy and orange which is quite stiff (to that boot ). I got only orange but bought black afterwards.

Orange is full solid plastic, black has additionally softer meshed parts.

Nice!  Today I learned.
https://skimo.co/atomic-backland-tongues
The tongue I got shaped like the right most one but the color is black.
Different year I am guessing.
No tongue, soft, and hard.