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AT ski boots for plates?


Deuxdiesel

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I thought a fair bit about how to get a better angle on that back foot... options seemed to be:

Ride in walk mode

As above, works ok, but seems a bit unsatisfactory and may cause me trouble in different snow conditions or on piste.

Modify the boot angle adjuster to get more lean out of it

There's a little metal plate (see centre of image) which could probably be augmented with something which has a larger offset. I was thinking about this and a mate with metallurgy skills, but then...
IMG_20190517_135420.thumb.jpg.f8d00583eccebbbd50dee1c8182de4de.jpg

Just use more heel lift

I have a few pairs of old F2 bindings, so I've no shortage of plastic F2 wedges.  Here below on the rear foot is a "double bubble" heel wedge, which appears to give me more lean as the image shows. It's hard to be sure of the precise angle from a picture, but Photoshop tells me the front is at about 77 degrees upright where as the back is 65, so a fair bit of difference now. I'll try it next season. 

It looks a bit "high heel" kinky, but maybe it'll do the job. I cut a couple of M6 bolts to length and replaced the original shorter bolts, using the same t-nuts on the bottom. If this is too much I can always dump some of the wedges until it's the right stack height for me, adjusting the bolt length at the same time with a file.
DSC05303.thumb.jpg.5ca5aa372150498765b618514168ddf1.jpg

 

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  • 1 month later...

The lightness is great - saves my shoulders taking a pounding carrying the suckers around the world's airports, plus it seems like less weight stuck on the end of the feet is generally a good idea. I'm slightly worried they may be too cold; I've not tried them in the cold. But I can always get boot heaters (extra weight... 😉 ) if that's an issue.

What I really like is not using 20 or more year old technology, which just feels like a bad idea to me.

I'll get the springs as soon as they're available...

 

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  • 2 months later...

Any new development on Spring System for Atomic Backland At boots?

$200 for the spring system from Phantom for Atomic Backland:
https://www.phantomsnow.com/shop/link-levers-for-atomic-backlands

EC forum thread on Atomic Backland:
https://www.extremecarving.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=13406

Steep and Cheap have the Atomic Backland Carbon for about $400+ shipped (tax and shipping)

https://www.steepandcheap.com/atomic-backland-carbon-alpine-touring-boot?skid=ATO00CW-BLA-S265&ti=U2VhcmNoIFJlc3VsdHM6YXRvbWljIGJhY2tsYW5kOjE6MjphdG9taWMgYmFja2xhbmQ=

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Atomic Backland seems to have pretty wide toe box despite the spec.
There are comparison bury in the forum thread: UPZ > Backland > Deluxe.
with memory fit (baked the shell and liner) it should worked out pretty well.

Anyone know a good "Atomic memory fit" shop in the tri-state area?

These are really amazing boots compare to Alpine hard boots:  R&D money goes a long way...
Light weight, decent fit out of the box.  Doesn't feel that stiff in locked mode(to me).  
Keep my finger cross that the smart tinker here will figure out how to make it work for our sport.

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😉 Yeah, I noticed they're listing them and got my order in too. I went for stiffer springs than my weight as I don't really want the flex, just the lean. I expect I can tweak that later if it's a problem. I'm hoping they ship when they say they will, or I have two continents and multiple possible places I may need those springs to be sent too. Anywhere but the UK, which is expected to be in serious crisis by then in terms of import/ export.

--
I'm slightly concerned that the boots may be cold, and I'd feel a bit daft having to increase the weight with heaters, but time will tell..

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13 hours ago, softbootsurfer said:

Stoked...just ordered the springs from Phantom...Boots are super comfortable out of the box and Light !!

need to get some F2 Titan Flex somewhere?

Awesome! 
Go for the Carve RS or ProFlex, for your style of riding, instead of the Titan Flex. They are cheaper, lower and softer bindings. You'd also love the Burton/Ibex bindings. 

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2 hours ago, philw said:

--
I'm slightly concerned that the boots may be cold, and I'd feel a bit daft having to increase the weight with heaters, but time will tell..

That's one of my worry as well:  Wonder if a different liner might help?

in teton gravity forum:  Intuition Pro Tour liner medium volume seems to be get good review with Backland.
In EC forum:  saw some using Palau liner

wonder if a wrap Deeluxe liner work since i pick up a pair used with good price.

 

4 minutes ago, pokkis said:

Just take look width of bail loops of bindings, Backlands have very narrow heel so too wide bails MIGHT not work so well.

In real life they require modified bails if you push very hard.

With the new F2 binding might be ok/better? 
Something to verify for sure.

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I found the stock standard F2 Race work perfectly and there's zero movement. Here's a video of them in use on some crappy snow at the end of last season. These were stock bindings, stock boots. Eventually I worked out that riding the Dump Truck on reference stance (which is set back) is a bad idea in this type of cruddy snow, so I shifted the bindings forward (so they were centred) and that seemed to stop the juddering you can see here.

After this was shot I also started riding the back foot in "walk" mode, as I could not get sufficient lean on it. When I got home I put another 3 degrees of heel lift back there to get around that. The Phantom things should fix that, so I expect I'll revert to a 3-degree heel lift plus 1-degree toe on front. 

My concern about cold feet is just speculative - I've not tried them in cold temperatures. They are significantly skinnier than trad boots, hence my concern. I'm not sure if alternative liners would help (because they could not be fatter), but time will tell.

From what I recall the "titan flex" are identical to the standard race F2s but there's a base plate thing which provides more flex. So the bails are likely identical. The Backlands are stiff, which I really like. I want the springs for the angle adjustment, not the flex, which I may try to defeat if it gets in the way.

 

Edited by philw
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I found Backlands very flexy, compared to Deeluxe700/UPZ's i ride normally. That combined to quite loose bails setup, i dont like to ride them on piste with my carving boards, even i have some friends who do that. I prefer my ankles too much, with modified bails might be different story but i dont have them. On powder i love them, there flex is fine.

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Thank you all for the discussion/info(liner, bail and etc)!

i would love to be able to hardcharge the backland in resort/on piste hardpack.
Safety is always a concern.

the modified bail that shown is for "redline binding" by Matti on EC forum?
It's niche of a niche so the likelihood of someone make it for F2 is slim to none?
A limited aftermarket run might be possible?

Don't have any of my gear in front of me: wonder if we can Frankenstein this?
https://www.phantomsnow.com/shop/binding-parts

Could be a product differentiator for say TD/Sigi in the context of binding. 

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29 minutes ago, charliechocolate said:

There's the carbon backlands and the regular backlands. Don't know if the stiffness is different between them. Which one did you try?

seems to be Carbon(judging by the pic that Pokkis shared):  file.php?id=2274

I got the carbon one as well and it seems to be pretty flexible but I have been eating my wheaties and hitting the squat rack lately.

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  • 2 months later...
2 hours ago, JRAZZ said:

Out of curiosity, has anyone tried reaching out to Atomic and just asking them if this market is interesting to them? Seems like they could make a killer boot with very little effort....  Just thinking.

I've actually had a few conversations with Matthew Manser (https://www.newschoolers.com/news/read/Best-Job-Ski-Industry-Mathew-Manser-onenerdykid-Atomic-Global-Product-Manager) trying to get him to take one of those Atomic AT boots (like the Hawx Ultra XTD) and make it snowboard specific.  I know they are listening...

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22 hours ago, softbootsurfer said:

These, are the Phantom Flex system, for the Back Lands AT boots...good machining, extra parts and easy install... 

You had me worried there for a little less than 22 hours, as I'd not heard about my own Phantoms which should be in that 1st batch.

Then my US mates sent me a tracking code, so I know they're on their way. I'll pick them up in a couple of weeks in BC. I assume the install tools are the same Allen-key you need to get the old adjusters out.

I'm a light-weight but I want these for the forward lean not the flex, so I bought the gold springs which I guess are stiffer.

I presume those other springs are for "walk mode". I don't really need that so maybe I can leave those out.

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As far as Atomic and pushing something snowboard specific, I think they can hardly lose with things as they are. If Phantom manage to create a market , Atomic could easily take them out at any time by enhancing the levers on their production boots, I guess. Let someone else do your R&D for you if you can.

I think there's an opportunity perhaps for Phantom also, to make a version of their binding for non-split boards. Perhaps that's more tricky, as getting the flex in the binding right is pretty important. I'm just thinking that there may be an opportunity for a boot interface which takes advantage from the specific design of the Backland base plate.

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