carver vs non carver perspective

[pcABQ]

Carver vs non-carver

 

Had an altercation at Loveland, CO today with a competent skier, maybe late 20s, early 30s.  He almost hit me from behind as I was carving across the hill.  Blue sky beautiful day, no one but us on the trail (weekday riding), and I’m wearing my standard very orange coat for maximum visibility.

 

His angle was that I was “taking up the whole goddam trail,” which I thought was interesting.  I told him 1) the downhill skier always has the right of way, and I’m the downhill skier, 2) my board (coiler nirvana) is designed to go across the hill, just like some giant slalom skiers will carve across the hill, and 3) if it comes to a choice between bailing into the woods or crashing into him, “I will hit you and this board will go straight fucking through you.”

 

That last comment didn’t help the conversation much, admittedly.

 

I thought it interesting that carving across the hill was what made him angry.

[drschwartz]

Ya, crazy, mentally ill, inconsiderate jackasses come in all ages, sizes, and disciplines.

Two weeks ago I had an 11 year old ski racer (on a team, with a bib on), call me an a**hole because we were carving turns on a wide open easy blue, when he almost crashed in to my wife as he was straightlining the run, out of control. He felt that she was in his way.

Mind you, I’ve seen snowboarders just as bad.

Try to keep the chin up and the good vibe going...don’t give in to the haters. Works better in the long run.

[Corey]

The Skier Safety Code only gets an occasional/casual mention in today's age.  The average user doesn't know it exists, which is terrifying.  

Look uphill regularly.  It's not a cure, but it has helped me to decide to stop turning.  

[jim_s]

Yeah, I've been cursed at and intentionally hit (from up hill) by skiers and boarders, alike - both with the same complaint, "You're taking up the whole slope!" (One guy intentionally hit me a 2nd time, on another run.)

Certainly, we tend to use up more than a typical width of the slope, but #1 most of us are taking very predictable and consistent lines - and we've left a trail down the entire slope of nearly identical ruts, spaced out like clockwork, and #2, as you note, its the uphill skier's responsibility to avoid the downhill skier. That having been said, I've gotten rather paranoid about looking up hill every turn or two, to try to avoid being slammed by some idiot who doesn't know or doesn't care about the uphill skier's responsibility. Just basic self preservation in the face of reality.

[Corey]

3 minutes ago, jim_s said:

 (One guy intentionally hit me a 2nd time, on another run.)

Wow!  That would elicit a very non-polite response from me.  

[AcousticBoarder]

15 minutes ago, Corey said:

The Skier Safety Code only gets an occasional/casual mention in today's age.  The average user doesn't know it exists, which is terrifying.  

Look uphill regularly.  It's not a cure, but it has helped me to decide to stop turning.  

I took my first two ski lessons with my GF this week and the instructor took the time to go over the code with us which is posted above the lift line at June Mountain. It was nice to see that they did that, especially at a mountain that a lot of us in So-Cal frequent.

[Buell]

1 hour ago, AcousticBoarder said:

I took my first two ski lessons with my GF this week and the instructor took the time to go over the code with us which is posted above the lift line at June Mountain. It was nice to see that they did that, especially at a mountain that a lot of us in So-Cal frequent.

That's awesome. June is a special place for carving. I expect a lot of the reason though is that it is a kids under 12 ski free and gets tons of kids, especially on the lower mountain. I noticed they added signs this season that specify giving someone you are passing 15' of space. Wouldn't that be nice.

 

The difference in perception of the mountain and of proper etiquette between carvers (skiers or boarders) and non carvers (skiers or boarders) is wide. Many riders, regardless of the written rules, are of the opinion that there are lanes on the run and each rider needs to stay in their lane. There are a lot of people on the hill who feel this way and, for me, the best thing to do is just let them go by. No need to get hurt trying to enlighten a person who is set in their ways. Then of course there are all the oblivious and out of control riders to look out for as well.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Buell

[scottishsurfer]

I don't think the effect of "target fixation" helps much either, alot of novice snowboarders and skiers can't help but stare at what there trying to avoid people,rocks,slow signs.... and as a result start subconsciously homing in on said object...

Anyone else get people raging at them for trenching the slope? I have an old decrepit hobbit of a skier who always moans when ever i ride at the indoor slope.

[slopestar]

We only need 10 feet. 5 below and 5 above. I’m sick of this shit. Really and have made it loud and clear in Loveland management and patrol’s ears. Head on a swivel, and all of the other obvious prevention techniques are just not working. Education is key and it’s the Mountains responsibility to educate.  

[slopestar]

Glad to hear your ok Pete

[jl1]

1 hour ago, Corey said:

The Skier Safety Code only gets an occasional/casual mention in today's age.  The average user doesn't know it exists, which is terrifying.  

Look uphill regularly.  It's not a cure, but it has helped me to decide to stop turning.  

Last weekend my wife and I are approaching the lift line when a kid comes  racing through the crowd on skis in a snow plow and runs right across Denise's brand new Coiler(big thumbs up to carbonium top sheets-I can't believe there are no scars from the incident).  He then falls down so Denise walks over and asks him what is the #1 rule is of the Skier code-he just stairs at her as she tells him "Ski in control"  and then she walks away. I think he thought she was going to help him up.  I do not think the skier code is posted enough at the ski resorts.

[billyt.]

Next new product when Bomber is back would be bright neon pendant on fiberglass pole that is attached to you, like they have on dune buggies.

[lafcadio]

4 hours ago, Buell said:

Many riders, regardless of the written rules, are of the opinion that there are lanes on the run and each rider needs to stay in there lane.

Unfortunately, yes.  I've seen this mentality in people who are otherwise competent downhill snow users, grew up skiing/snowboarding, have come from a snow sports family, and have been doing it for 20+ years. ;-(

There was a safety video Ryan Knapton posted about a year ago showing a snowboarding getting taken out by a skier coming on fast from behind (uphill).  The skier in the video was so blatantly out of line and wrong there could be no confusion as to was at fault.  Guess what... when I showed the video clip to various skiers and snowboarders out of context, many of them said the snowboarder was "obviously at fault."  

The reason given was that it appeared the snowboarder went "out of his lane" and into the path of a faster moving vehicle... like passing on a highway without checking that the lane is clear.

Edited January 18, 2018 by lafcadio
typo

[Buell]

Enforcing the skier's code is an interesting proposition for a resort. That becomes a business policing its clients, which isn't a great business model. Resorts seem to take the approach that a collision here and there is better than upsetting out of control riders/skiers (in cases, it might also be that staffing employees to police the slopes cost money the resort doesn't want to spend). Obviously they want to avoid ignoring it to the point of a lawsuit, but that line seems to be very high.

[Allee]

I was pulled over by patrol this weekend at the bottom of the last, steep pitch into the Silver Chair at Nakiska. I was told to pick a line, left or right, on that descent, and stick to it - because that day there were 1500 racer kids on the hill, all bombing the main run at mach schnell, and the patroller "didn't want an incident"."They aren't expecting to see you there, and they're only looking straight ahead".

I assured him that I had my head on a swivel on that pitch. But as SoloSteve said to me later, why was he picking on us? The kids were the ones at fault. That particular bench is so steep you can't see off the top, and yet they fly off it without even a speed check. Should someone fall right under the drop, there is no way a speeding skier could stop. And as for looking "only straight ahead" ... if we can check around mid-carve, they should be doing the same. The hill was really busy on Saturday, but these kids don't care, and nor do the management.

It's damn frustrating when the rules seem to apply to some, but not others.

[drschwartz]

39 minutes ago, billyt. said:

Next new product when Bomber is back would be bright neon pendant on fiberglass pole that is attached to you, like they have on dune buggies.

I actually think that POC, Gyro, or somebody could/should market a nice MIPS equipped helmet that also has a huge rotating blue/red light along with an optional siren. Maybe then other skiers/riders would pay attention!

[AcousticBoarder]

2 hours ago, Buell said:

That's awesome. June is a special place for carving. I expect a lot of the reason though is that it is a kids under 12 ski free and gets tons of kids, especially on the lower mountain. I noticed they added signs this season that specify giving someone you are passing 15' of space. Wouldn't that be nice.

 

The difference in perception of the mountain and of proper etiquette between carvers (skiers or boarders) and non carvers (skiers or boarders) is wide. Many riders, regardless of the written rules, are of the opinion that there are lanes on the run and each rider needs to stay in their lane. There are a lot of people on the hill who feel this way and, for me, the best thing to do is just let them go by. No need to get hurt trying to enlighten a person who is set in their ways. Then of course there are all the oblivious and out of control riders to look out for as well.

Speaking of those 15' of space signs, I noticed today that Mammoth also had them... I wonder if it has expanded to Summit and Bear or even the other owned resorts? Our Ski instructor also pointed these out and even said each person gets a 15' radius circle, including yourself, so the person in front of you you should actually be 30' away....

Also, agreed on letting people go by. Especially when riding by myself, I will often stop to the side and let the wave pass before moving on. I just try to avoid people altogether.

 

I almost think there should be a stock topsheet for Donek and Coiler with the code on it so if you frequently run into problems, you can just show them your board haha.

Edited January 18, 2018 by AcousticBoarder

[slopestar]

Don't tempt me!

[Zone]

2 hours ago, slopestar said:

We only need 10 feet. 5 below and 5 above. I’m sick of this shit. Really and have made it loud and clear in Loveland management and patrol’s ears. Head on a swivel, and all of the other obvious prevention techniques are just not working. Education is key and it’s the Mountains responsibility to educate.  

Something about ' Know some codes'.

I don't read fine prints. Sorry ;-)

[slopestar]

Your liable for at fault collisions in CO, ZONE. If you ever ride here, you might want to buy some glasses

[Zone]

2 hours ago, slopestar said:

Your liable for at fault collisions in CO, ZONE. If you ever ride here, you might want to buy some glasses

No worry, I know the code.

My point is most don't bother reading past the he headline.

[Eric Brammer aka PSR]

When I was Teaching, I have "Busted" folk who've decided that 1' was a 'safe' passing space. I carried Clipper-Pliers just so I could 'snip' their pass!  I've been hit well over 40 times (usually herding a class down Open-Slope at Okemo; I wasn't an Instructor, I was a "Goalie"!! ) , but my fave was when I was 'out of uniform', but on my Nitro EFT Asym, and had been ripping 120*+ carves all the way down World Cup, but had a 'shadow' Skier following (lurking), at the edge of his skills (I'd see him, every Toe-side Carve!!). I pulled WAY OVER, and  KNELT down, facing uphill, and watched this fool try to Pass by me towards the shoulder of the trail. I stood, Hopped UP the hill (2 hops), and we Collided. I put my feet into it, and stopped Both of us from going off the side of the trail. Then, I announced that I was a Mountain employee, Clipped his Ticket, and told him he could talk to My Supervisor (Gordon Robbins) if he had any complaint. That afternoon, Gordon asked what happened, I showed him my (then-new, but now scratched-up!) Nitro. He took my word, and my board back down to Ski-Patrol, and told the 'customer', "Go Home Today, the proof is in my hands"...  After that, we were advised to report 'unsafe' skiers/riders' to Patrol, and, IF we had clipped a Ticket, write an explanation. I filled a lot of those 'explanations' out in those next 4 years there, and brought that ideal/process to Bromley when I was Supervisor there. 

Edited January 18, 2018 by Eric Brammer aka PSR
typo

[cin]

Code or no code, I see it as general decency to anticipate. I look out for other skiers/snowboarders both when I'm downhill and uphill. It's a small effort and it can save everyone a lot of trouble and irritation. Same thing goes for when we're in traffic; people should be anticipating on traffic in front of them, behind them and next to them. I never understood why people feel so much need to 'claim their space', while there is so much space to share. Just seems to me that some people a specific bit of common sense when it comes to skiing/snowboarding. Or participating in traffic for that matter..

[philw]

10 hours ago, Allee said:

I was pulled over by patrol this weekend at the bottom of the last, steep pitch into the Silver Chair at Nakiska. I was told to pick a line, left or right, on that descent, and stick to it - because that day there were 1500 racer kids on the hill, all bombing the main run at mach schnell, and the patroller "didn't want an incident"."They aren't expecting to see you there, and they're only looking straight ahead".
....
It's damn frustrating when the rules seem to apply to some, but not others.
...
I assured him that I had my head on a swivel on that pitch.

I've had that.  Just because people are in power doesn't make them right (something the odd politician could do with learning).
__

More generally though, because I know that other people break rules, I assume they're going to do that and make sure they can't hurt me. There's no other rational choice.

 

[Wolf]

I've had the same comments about taking up too much hill and being too hard to pass.  Been hit from behind three times.  But I've also had comments that make me smile.  I'm a newly retired weekday-only rider now, and have had weekday regulars tell me "we know exactly what you're going to do and it's no problem to give you room".