Is this a good beginner setup?

[DC_Casual_Hardbooter]

Hi Everyone,

I am new to snow sport and tried last winter both skiing and conventional snowboarding. Can handle mid-Atlantic Green/ and sometimes Blue. Obviously cannot carve yet.

I stumbled one day on this forum, looks like extremely fun to do hard-booting and carve. Definitely beat what I have tried on skiing and conventional snowboarding. I also like the fact that Alpine snowboarding (vs conventional snowboarding) have a more straightforward, straight-on stance and better peripheral vision.

Seeking advice here, is below a functional, reasonably good beginner set-up? My goal is to have some casual fun, try a bit carving, can follow my friends to Black Diamond eventually. Since I am already 40 and started late, only get about 10 snow sport days a year, I am not trying to get to advanced level.

I talked to my wife and she would only agree on a limited budget for me to buy equipment. I also don't want to try used equipment as I have been burned before.

Here are the things I have in mind, all of them to be bought from this website, any suggestions welcome

1) Donek Pilot Board $460

2) Head Stratus Pro Boots $ 394 ($229 boots+$145 Fin-Tec Heels+$20 installation)

3) TD3 step-in $315

Total $1,169 (I think there is also a 10% discount if I buy board, binding and boot as a package)

 

[workshop7]

Welcome to the forum!

I recommend not starting on a race board, which is what the Pilot is, a beginner race board.  Not only is this not your best option for an all mountain carver, but you will outgrow it in a few years.  I suggest a Freecarve.  You will still get the benefit of a variable side cut radius but also gain a flex pattern that is more appropriate for the way you want to ride.

Edited July 5, 2017 by workshop7

[Neil Gendzwill]

Not only is the Pilot a race board, it is meant for kids.  I suggest you hang around the classified forums here.  They pick up considerably in the fall.  There are many BOL members who can sell you gear in excellent condition for much less than new prices.

[DC_Casual_Hardbooter]

Thanks for the suggestion on the choice of board. So much more research to be done! I will dig into it.

On the bindings and boots though, they are kind of alright?

[slopestar]

Don't skimp on boots/bindings. Comfort is everything! 

[alpinegirl]

Great binding choice!

Great boots, however read up as much as you can about boots (if you haven't already. There are some different fits) and pester the bomber crew. Angie and Jim are more than able to get you set up on the most appropriate gear for you.

Comfort and fit always comes first. A great fitting boot performs well and is comfortable. Perhaps not a tennis shoe, but definitely comfortable. More important for those things is to find a great boot fitter. 

Boards may take some sorting. Great suggestions already. I definitely agree with starting off with a freecarving shape. It is ok to snag something used. This forum has a lot of brutally honest people who love the sport and would rather see someone find the joy in it than burn them over pennies.

Then come to a carving event with your current deck, boots that fit and bomb proof bindings and try out any deck under the sun. We're here to ensure that you become addicted.

[DC_Casual_Hardbooter]

Jim, I am actually quite small in stature (5'7 and 145 pounds)......

And on the moldable liners, does the Bomber site carry moldable liners compatible to head boots? Can't seem to find them. Or I could just go to local ski shops and easily find moldable liners that are compatible to my boots?

[Neil Gendzwill]

55 minutes ago, DC_Casual_Hardbooter said:

Jim, I am actually quite small in stature (5'7 and 145 pounds)......

And on the moldable liners, does the Bomber site carry moldable liners compatible to head boots? Can't seem to find them. Or I could just go to local ski shops and easily find moldable liners that are compatible to my boots?

http://store.bomberonline.com/Deeluxe-131-Thermo-Flex-Liners_p_90.html

[philw]

I'm currently using those Head boots and for me at least the standard liners are fine.

I've ridden most boots including fancy liners, but these just work out of the box. I would not, myself, consider using anything other than what they come with to start off with at least. I think it depends a lot on your feet of course.

Board-wise, well you're going to have a US perspective on that.

[BlueB]

Welcome! 

As others said, I'd skip the Pilot, but rather start on a nice hard boot specific all-mountain board. The stance angles would be more relaxed and flex mellow and it will handle variety of conditions easier. You can always add a narrower race board later, as your skills grow, but all mountain is a must in every quiver. 

Boots are very individual, some fit wider feet better, some narrower... You need to try, or search the forum a bit to get more info on various fits. 

At your size and weight you don't need TDs, especially if starting on an all mountain board. I'd recommend the Carve RS, by F2, or Proflex (basically the same thing). I don't like the step-ins either, but that's individual too... 

Oh, one more thing, your regular board can be ridden with plates and hard boots, too. It's quite fun. 

If intending to stick with skiing and hard boot snowboarding, look for Dalbello CarveX / CRX boots. They are identical to Head Stratos, but have ski soles, so can fit on both type of bindings. I think that Deelux also has a universal kind of boot, but can't recall the model off hand... 

Have fun, your brain is going to explode from all the info you'll get on this forum ;) 

Edited July 6, 2017 by BlueB

[Aracan]

You plan to spend almost half of your budget on bindings. While I realize this is the Bomber forum, I find this bias quite heavy. Are you sure you want step-in capability? Many love it, others (like myself) never missed it.

More importantly, step-in bindings will never make up what the wrong boots can detract from your riding enjoyment. If you can get away with $ 229 boots, more power to you. Many (including myself) have spent considerably more, even if the boots themselves were at the same price point.

Bottom line: If you have a limited budget, start with cheaper bindings (maybe bail-type) on the chance that your feet will require to have more money thrown at them. Unhappy feet make for bad carves.

[DC_Casual_Hardbooter]

Everyone, thanks a lot. Very insightful ideas and also make my head spinning, so much info... Have not seen such a supporting forum for a while......

[breeseomatic]

Welcome to the forum and family of alpine boarders!  My recommendation is to skip the step-ins buy regular bail bindings to use on your current snowboard and learn the "alpine" stance on a much more forgiving set up first.  If you can learn to ride all the terrain your resort provides, you can follow your buddies all over the mountain. I have a stiff free ride board (Arbor Steepwater) that I use to follow my ski and conventional boarder friends. It's short enough that I can maneuver it around and it's stiff where it needs to be so I can really carve a nice turn. I would not actively choose a carve or race board for all mountain riding.  Keep boarding and trying different boards.  If you take a methodical approach to binding set up, you will find a setting that works pretty good. But please keep in mind that as you get better and more confident, you'll have to make some equipment adjustments to compliment those newfound skills. When I was starting out, it seemed like I was always tweaking a setting, but now as my skill level has plateaued, my bindings are set, and have not really changed.

In the fall, there will be lots of used boots, bindings and boards up for sale. It's a great time to go shopping. However there is something nice about buying new now and having it ready to go. 

 

[Corey]

Boot fit is highly personal.  I recall that the Heads are better for wider feet.  If you have tiny ankles, you may have fit issues.  

Step-in vs. conventional:  How big are the mountains/hills you ride on?  If it's mountains with run times that are measured in minutes, there's not a big incentive to go to step-ins.  If it's hills where run times are measured in seconds, I absolutely recommend step-ins!  You'll get more runs in each day and your friends on skis won't have to wait for you.  

Bindings:  The TD3 step-ins are $315 right now, which is only $16 more than the Carve Co bindings.  That's a lot more binding for $16, but the TD3s are definitely stiffer.  Whether that's good or bad is up to you, but I'd definitely suggest the soft (yellow) E-rings at your weight if you go TD3.  

[barryj]

Hey DC,

Welcome to the forum!   As for boots, just remember you want a SNUG fit with zero to little heel lift as possible.

In that regard it is fairly normal to buy/ride a whole size or more smaller Alpine boot than your street shoe size.......

ie:    I wear a US size 11 1/2 street shoe and I ride a Mondo 28 which equals a US size 10!

It was a little too tight at first, but remember the boot liner will pack out some over time!   Now they fit like a glove!

Again welcome and good hunting for your setup  

[michael.a]

If you are set on the Heads then I would strongly recommend finding a pair that come with the orange tongues. They are considerably softer than the stock black tongues. If you can't score any orange tongues, purchase a BTS kit with yellow springs. Heads are stiff boots for beginners and need considerable mods to be rideable, and that's personal experience talking from someone who had 50+ pds on you. I suffered for two seasons before I softened up my boots.

The same applies for the bindings, TD3s as metal bindings are far stiffer (even with the yellow e-rings) than (cheaper) all-plastic bindings. Though I would definitely go with the step ins especially if you will be riding on small East coast hills.

[Beckmann AG]

As described, you (and your available resources) would be better served gaining proficiency on a decent softboot setup. If you do not have facility manipulating the edge and sidecut in that more 'flexible' environment, you will find dedicated alpine gear frustrating and possibly injurious.

This is not to say that you can't, or shouldn't set the goal of riding hardboots, but you will probably enjoy the process more on a solid foundation born of time and technique. 

Edited July 9, 2017 by Beckmann AG
too many puppies

[sic t 2]

On 7/5/2017 at 11:03 AM, DC_Casual_Hardbooter said:

Hi Everyone,

snip.... Can handle mid-Atlantic Green/ and sometimes Blue. Obviously cannot carve yet.

I also like the fact that Alpine snowboarding (vs conventional snowboarding) have a more straightforward, straight-on stance and better peripheral vision.

snip..

I always tell rank beginners this, when they are trying to imagine the hardboot experience:  "Getting the carve on hardboots is the easy part.  What you need to worry about is how you get it to STOP CARVING.  Think tree, think snowgun, think the metal pole holding up the snowgun".   Of course, once you get it down its awesome but the beginner days do have their challenges.  The great part about this is all the little ski areas, the ones you used to thumb your nose at, become triple black diamonds for u.  Saves travel money and hotel rooms $$ (so the alpine setup is not as expensive as it may seem over the long run).

[Wolf]

DC - You can definitely get a better value buying used equipment but I understand your preference to buy new so that you know what you're getting.  In that case, based on Donek's description of the Pilot offering "flex patterns for recreational carvers", it's a reasonably priced choice if your goal is to carve turns on groomed runs.  As others have said, it's not an all-mountain board but more an entry-level carving board.  Boots are hit and miss as to whether they will fit the shape of your feet, but at least buying from Bomber gives you the option to return them.  I weigh about 160 lbs and don't find my TD3 bindings with yellow pads to be excessively stiff, but recognize that this entire setup will be far stiffer than the soft boot setup you're used to.  That's why some are suggesting learning to carve using a soft setup.  On the step-in versus regular question, a round trip up and down my hill in Ohio is 3 minutes and 50 seconds, and my step-ins save me a lot of time as well as a lot of bending down.  Good luck with your adventure into carving and welcome to the forum!

[davekempmeister]

Hi DC.

 

if you are going to spend any time at either Whitetail or WISP, i am sure we will see each other at some point.  i am not one to give any advice but i would be happy to ride with you if the opportunity presents itself.

 i am a big guy with gear that goes along with my frame so it is unlikely that i have anything to offer you to try.  sorry for that.

however, if you get head boots and they are not ones with the softer orange tongues, i do have extra of those that you could swap out and give a go.

good luck and stick with it.  with a little persistence, it'll be rewarding.  i also think that Whitetail offers a great slope for the beginner, provided you arrive early or on a weekday.

 

[ursle]

Used...

The boot shell is all that matters, get a used shell that fits and then get great liners, conformable from "sure fit" for example, best of the best, 

Binding don't care weather they are new or used, F2 binding used are inexpensive and very light weight.

Used boards are problematic, but until you have a couple years in carving, a superior race board would be extremely hard to navigate properly, a used shorter wider board to start on then a few more thinner longer boards as you accumulate mileage would be relatively inexpensive.

4 or 5 hundred $ of used gear seems reasonable, now think body armor, wrist guards, knee pads, something to protect your tail bone and don't forget your back bone and elbows, and a helmet....

[Nick]

I start last year my hard boot dream and waiting this season to keep learning.What do you guys think about hot blast 172,raichleAf 700 and snow pro race.  I also have f2 silber 162 with snow pro bind.  I feel much safer on hot 172.

    I am about 5.11 and 215 lb . Do you guys think some other equipment would be better for learning?

Edited August 15, 2017 by Nick

[Eric Brammer aka PSR]

Nick, the Blast was pretty aggressive board 'in-the-day', but it's stable, and flows edge-to-edge without undue drama (such as folding the nose, or Not releasing an edge..), where-as the Silbefiel is a nervous pup. So, given your stature, stay on the Hot for now.. On firm+cold days, the F-2 might give you bigger comfort zone (if you ride light on your feet), as you'll still be able to tighten up turns as you need to, and, on soft-snow days (not Powder days) it may be more 'playful' overall. I've owned 4 Hots (loved all of them!) and 3 F-2's (liked 2, loved 1), and given the choice of being stuck with only 1 board, and only having these two product lines to pick from, I'd stick with Hot without hesitation. 

I write all this without yet asking, 'What do ya wanna learn?'; or, 'Where are ya at this Season?', or even 'Where do you ride?'.. My answer might vary given those considerations, but, for now, go with what feels best.

 

 

 

[Nick]

Hi,

  I like fast and agresive snowboarding and would lean toward extreme carving. I am in Europe all winter,last year i start learning in Ischgl,Austria with my F2 and later in my home country mountain resort. I felt more stable on Blast,but issue there is overcrowded slopes. Do you think step in would be better choice in future?

thanks

[philw]

Ischgl can get busy but then it can also be gloriously quiet, depending on your timing. Some of those long top-to-bottom runs in Ischgl are pretty memorable.

Step-in bindings? In my experience they give a more positive boot/ binding connexion that I had with none-step-ins, but that essentially just reduces some of the flex in the system,  but you can mess around with that in other ways (by using different boots, different bindings, etc). From a learning point of view, I'd they're a bit different but not in a way which matters at all. Most people here will have learned on traditional bindings and many will still ride those. I'm not sure what the Extreme Carving guys suggest - you can ask them directly.

I'd ride what you find best to ride on. I don't know that Hot, but clearly others here do. I like the F2 boards generally because they mostly are... nervous pups... but that could be a challenge to learn on, I suppose. That said, you're pretty beefy and that's not a large board - are you in the middle of the recommended weight range for each of those boards? If you're not, that will affect how easy you find the boards to ride.