F2 binding vs Bomber

[astrodude]

hi all,

 

I have just started hardboot this season and am having great fun with it. My current setup is SG full race 185+Bomber td3 SW+upz RC10. I enjoy racing and free riding, and I am preparing for GS competition among amateurs.

 

 I am now having doubts over choosing Bomber as from time to time I saw worldcup racers tend to use F2 race titan as their bindings.

 

The reason why I choose Bomber was that it was fully metal and it allows less movement of the boot. However, after a few talks with some professional racers, they told me that these two  advantages I believed are just the disadvantages. Bomber is too heavy comparing to a plastic F2 binding, and the movement F2 bindings allows helps them handle bad snow condition. 

 

Besides that, F2 could be directly set up to a plate, while Bomber need a replacement of bottom. 

 

Sorry folks that I posted this on a bomber forum. I like bomber, the design, the color and the confidence they give me when riding. But is it necessary that I have to buy a F2 binding too? why bomber is hardly used in worldcup competitions? I do believe most racers choose F2 instead of bomber for some reason.

 

Jeff

[Neil Gendzwill]

The sidewinder is Bomber's solution to the need for some lateral flex, and you already have those. F2 is less stiff overall. I have no clue which is better for you personally.

[Corey]

Reports I've heard say that breakage is common and expected on the World Cup level with F2s.  I have zero World Cup experience, so that may have been an exageration or truth.  

 

I would question if most people could honestly feel the difference between an F2 and a SideWinder if they couldn't see which one they had under their feet.  The placebo effect is real and VERY strong.  In that light, use the binding you believe you'll be faster with, as you probably will be faster just due to that belief until you are performing at a very elite level.  Ever see someone racing with a speedsuit at the beer-league level, finishing 2 seconds behind the winner?  

 

Personally, I don't like the very coarse steps of adjustment for lift/cant with the F2, short of machining custom wedges.  F2s are lighter but most racers prefer heavier boards, as per a discussion with Sean of Donek a couple of years ago.  

[ursle]

Two things come to mind, weight, the F2 is half as heavy as the sidewinder step-in, but.....also adjust-ability, the bomber can accommodate 6 degrees of lift with zero cant, or, if you want any cant you take away from the amount of lift, the F2 has parts available to go with 4,6,8,10 degrees of lift and canting can be a slice of duct tape or  the cants that come with the binding, you can vary the canting a great deal.

Racers break all gear, all the time.

[guido591]

Frankly, I find that PHK (formerly Phiokka) combine the best of both. Bulletproof metal construction, precise levels of adjustability and reasonable weight.

[Corey]

the F2 has parts available to go with 4,6,8,10 degrees of lift 

 

Interesting, I've only see the one wedge kit that's about 4 degrees of lift.  Link to the others?  

[lowrider]

 It would be interesting to know if this is coach or ride driven. ( verifiable or antidotal ) Had this very discussion last week with the father of an Olympic rider and was informed that they replaced bails often to prevent any chance of problems with fatigued parts. 

Edited February 26, 2016 by lowrider

[BlueB]

Interesting, I've only see the one wedge kit that's about 4 degrees of lift.  Link to the others?  

F2s come with 4 cant wedges and 1 thick flat shim. When you double up the cants to cancel each other you get a flat shim 1/2 thickness of the big one, about 3mm and 6mm respectively. That can give you 3, 6, 9 or 12mm of lift in one binding. The lift angle is a bit dependent on the length of the boot.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Boris you can get a proper lift kit that has angled toe and heel blocks. I think that's 3 degrees?

Edited February 26, 2016 by Neil Gendzwill

[BlueB]

Boris you can get a proper lift kit that has angled toe and heel blocks. I think that's 3 degrees?

I know. The ramp angle of the shims might be 3deg, but the angle of the sole would still depend on the length of the boot. I'm lazy to do the trig right now, but I'd assume it could be noticeable between M23 and M30 boot.

[James Ong]

Metal vs. plastic tow clips might also make a difference

[MikeC]

The weight alone is a reason to run F2s.

 

Seen a pair of SWs break.  That being said I ran a pair for a season and liked them.  Just on to F2s because they are so light.

 

You are comparing a race binding to a carving/freeriding binding.

[Keenan]

Didn't they stop making F2 last year?  I've broken F2 bails, they are made of steel, Bombers are aluminum, I've stripped out the lugs on Bombers but never broken a bail.

[xy9ine]

pretty sure the bomber bails are stainless steel. i've broken a bomber bail (which is a good bit thicker than an f2), which makes me a bit scared of any plate binding fwiw. 

 

i do like the light weight & flex of the f2, but they do appear a little fragile. mine have been problem free, however, so optics only perhaps. 

Edited February 26, 2016 by xy9ine

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Jeff, welcome to Bomber.  That is some first post!!

 

Try the F2s and come back to report how much difference it makes in your amateurs racing times perhaps? 

 

Besides that, F2 could be directly set up to a plate, while Bomber need a replacement of bottom.

 

No, your bombers can mount directly using the cants you have , you have the option of getting a BP cant to reduce the height , that is up to you. 

Personally I think being a free rider and part time amateur racer would lead me to ride what I have until proven other wise. Probably too much weight being placed on the difference unless you are at world cup level.  Enjoy!!!

 

PS. Happy to trade you a pair of F2s for your TD3 SW , any day!!

[teach]

[Hilux]

I do not race and consider myself a strong intermediate but as others have mentioned, and from what I've heard racers tend to cycle through bindings/F2's and replace before breakage  (as with many pieces of sports equipment).  So running F2's at a level where you are competing on a regular basis, you'd likely want to have a spare set or two, or at least parts available (which I typically do regardless). Any racers chime in?

 

I had been riding TD3's (standards then switched to step-ins) for a while until I switched to F2 Race Ti last year as more of an experiment to see the difference in flex (board and boots stayed the same).  F2's definitely have more "flex" .  I did find the flex characteristics a little more unpredictable/variable compared to TD's and I found it took a couple times out to get used to them.  They still didn't feel as solid as the TD's but we are really comparing apples and oranges here.  If you are a lighter rider (as in weight) you might not notice this as much.  I also noticed the range of motion for when you are driving the knees was noticeable greater in that there was generally more freedom of movement.  This was good in some cases but felt a lag time in transitions if that makes sense. Not necessarily a bad thing, just different and had to account for it while riding. 

 

Because of the plastic on them, I had been a little more concerned (having broken Burton raceplate toe bails) and didn't have the same confidence but they held up fine.  I did get them dialed in and liked them in the end but forgot what I was missing.  

 

Onto this year.  I did a couple days out on the F2's and then decided to put back on my TD3's.  All I can say is WOW.  Big difference for me...in a positive way.  The interface is stiffer, but the E pads take the edge off.  Turn initiation was much more responsive and overall felt a better control in transitions and setting the turn.  Of course there are a lot of factors at play including riding style, technique, terrain but thought I'd share my experience as a rec rider. I also have never found the TD3 step-ins stiff, or rather never found that the stiffness was a limiting factor compared to the standard bail.  The weight of TD's is a little noticeable compared to F2 but doesn't outweigh the performance characteristics of the binding for me.

 

Don't know if this helps but there you go!

Edited February 27, 2016 by Hilux

[michael.a]

The reasons are: some prefer the internal twist in F2s afforded by the plastic toe/heel block construction, Bomber bindings are very difficult to procure in Europe (where let's be honest, is where the real racing happens) and almost twice as expensive (you can pick up new F2s for 100 euro over here), and the somehwat limited cant/lift profile. The last two reasons I was given from racers using F2's CNC Titanium bindings.

[Duke]

Tangentially related question:  Can Fintec heels work in F2 bindings and can Intec heels work in Bomber bindings?  Or better put....are the "stiletto, carving" :)  heels all the same size-wise? 

[Neil Gendzwill]

Duke, the answer is yes. Intec is a standard design.

[BlueB]

Here are my thoughts...

 

Over the years I tried every binding that I managed to put my hands on. F2 Ti Race not very much, but enough to give an opinion.

After the first few years of experimentation, I settled on TD2 and TD2 modified to work as TD3 as my freecarve bindings and Snowpro Race as my freeride binding. I found the Snowpros to feel and work almost identical to F2, with the later having better on board longitudinal adjustability.

As the time went by, I dropped the TDs and adopted the Snopros as my freecarve bindings and switched to all plastic F2 Carve RS or identical Proflex as my pow/freeride/freestyle/teaching bindings. I liked more flexibility, simplicity and reduced weight...

 

I never broke anything on TDs, but some locals did. I had TDs spontaneously release once or twice. I also had them slip certain parts out of position.

 

On F2s I broke the rear bail once, however that was the old 5mm version and was used and abused by a racer before me. I also had F2 twist out of the set angle. Never had a release from them. On Snowpros I had a twist too, but never released and never broke anything.

 

The step-ins I wouldn't touch... Being attached by 2 little pins makes me very nervous. Don't want extra stiffness, either. Also... I ride the ski boots :)

[astrodude]

hey guys, thanks very much for all your opinions and shared thoughts. did not know a noob like me could get such attention, LOL. I could not reply to everyone of you, but truly thanks to you. 

 

As I was posting this I ordered a new piece of F2 ti race binding and it is now coming to me. I will try to give compare the two and leave some words here. However, I do not think I could feel any difference as a starter:P

 

BTW, I live in Beijing China. And to oldsnowboards who wanted to trade, haha, sorry it's too difficult and I don't think I will give up bomber anyway. Well, Olympic 2022 is going to be held here. There has been lots of changes, more people starting to use hard boots, EC becoming popular etc. 

 

Welcome to you all that someday coming to China and party with us.

 

 

Jeff

[astrodude]

The weight alone is a reason to run F2s.

 

Seen a pair of SWs break.  That being said I ran a pair for a season and liked them.  Just on to F2s because they are so light.

 

You are comparing a race binding to a carving/freeriding binding.

 

 

Hi Mike C, you are saying which and which is a race binding and a carving/freeriding binding? 

 

To me, I think F2 is more suitable for racing while Bomber is a carving monster, right?

[MikeC]

Hi Mike C, you are saying which and which is a race binding and a carving/freeriding binding? 

 

To me, I think F2 is more suitable for racing while Bomber is a carving monster, right?

Well, you can race with Bombers and freecarve with F2s.  But look at what racers use overwhelmingly, and what freecarvers use overwhelmingly.

[Corey]

We do have a bit of location bias happening here too. I suspect most freecarvers North America use Bomber, with F2 a close second.  I suspect F2 is the dominant choice in Europe due to pricing and availability.  

 

Don't forget Burton/Ibex, Virus, Phiokka, SnowPro, etc.