1st time on new board n00b questions

[Colozeus]

Just accidentally hit my back button and what was a very detailed post will be a bit more concise now. *sigh*

 

New board, coiler EC 165 6.5 Stiffness +5 decamber 9-12 vsr. 

 

 

Took it out on friday and it was a very awkward first experience. Basically it felt like i couldn’t turn the board at all. Probably because i’m used to more of a soft boot setup with 30f 20r angles. I ended up doing a few runs, and by the end of the day i could do some ok rotational carves at lower speeds on a mild blue. But only after i had my rear boot in walk mode. Here is my setup

 

track 325t mondo 26

td2

50f 45R 3 degrees cant in rear

17” stance

 

Thoughts? I know the stance is quite narrow. I usually ride 18.5 on my soft setups. And i can carve really well in them. (rossi templar magtek 153. Soft boots are K2 Maysis DB, an awesome soft boot)

 

I’m probably just not use to such a stiff boot and high angles. It felt like i just couldn’t turn the board at all. Perhaps i rely too much on my ankles to initiate turns? I was thinking of lowering the angles to 45/40 or lower and then working my way back up. And also widening my stance. 

Edited March 9, 2015 by Colozeus

[Tugboater]

I'm an intermediate carver but I keep my boots in walk mode all the time.

[Colozeus]

I'm an intermediate carver but I keep my boots in walk mode all the time.

Interesting. Perhaps i should invest in the Bomber bts kit.

[big canuck]

Widen you stance for sure guy that should help a LOT!!! Go at least what you do on your soft board. I'm just shy of 6 foot and cant ride narrower than 20" even on my SL boards. one man's opinion, take it for what its worth.

 

I have BTS on my boots an love them

Edited March 9, 2015 by big canuck

[piusthedrcarve]

Read Two Raven's post.  Excellent write up that deserves 'Sticky' on BOL.   'Pressing down' is the key to bend a board.  BTS will allow you more easily to press down.  Her 'Knee-Knee-Hip-Tuck' drill will lead you how to press it correctly. 

 

Hoped to meet you at slopes but didn't work out. If we get colder weather one more time, I may go up again, but not optimistic at this point. 

Awesome deck you got. As Big Canuck said, widen your stance little bit to have more freedom on rear leg. 

[Colozeus]

Read Two Raven's post.  Excellent write up that deserves 'Sticky' on BOL.   'Pressing down' is the key to bend a board.  BTS will allow you more easily to press down.  Her 'Knee-Knee-Hip-Tuck' drill will lead you how to press it correctly. 

 

Hoped to meet you at slopes but didn't work out. If we get colder weather one more time, I may go up again, but not optimistic at this point. 

Awesome deck you got. As Big Canuck said, widen your stance little bit to have more freedom on rear leg. O

Gotcha. Will read that post and also widen my stance. I'm looking at bts springs right now, will probably order them. 

 

Yeah, i'm actually very depressed that our season is coming to an end. I just want to hibernate until the next season. I might do a seven springs trip next week since it looks like they will have more snow friendly temps. 

[AcousticBoarder]

+1 for reading that post. As a newer rider myself, it helped tremendously. Definitely look at widening your stance too. With the canting on bindings for hard boots, you should actually be able to have a wider stance than on soft boots. This was a good starting place for me, I think I made it slightly wider: 

• Take your pants inseam and multiply by (Phi × 3 / 8) = 0.607, which is taken from Da Vinci's Vitruvian Man.

[That Guy...]

Inseam * 0.607 = stance width will get you real close to where it should be.  I think I even mentioned this before with you.  Or maybe someone else.  Lots of new folks to keep track of.  Anyway... do that.  Also, try some heel lift in the rear and do this: http://beckmannag.com/hardboot-snowboarding/hardboot-binding-configuration

[Colozeus]

Inseam * 0.607 = stance width will get you real close to where it should be.  I think I even mentioned this before with you.  Or maybe someone else.  Lots of new folks to keep track of.  Anyway... do that.  Also, try some heel lift in the rear and do this: http://beckmannag.com/hardboot-snowboarding/hardboot-binding-configuration

I'm pretty sure you did. I'm not even sure why i did 17 inches. I just went with the smallest stance the inserts would allow and it felt comfortable in my living room. Not so much on the slopes. I'll read up on that link. Thanks. 

[teach]

The Norm. It's natural to try to ride like you would at lower angles, but around 50 degrees or so that becomes extremely inefficient and above it is pretty much impossible. Doing the Norm takes those learned movements out of the mix, letting you get a sense for how the board works.

 

At higher angles you use both "gas-pedal type" (dorsiflexion and plantar flexion if I recall) movements as well as side-to-side (eversion and inversion) movements of the ankle joint. The higher the angles, the more the latter come into play and the less the former do.

 

My advice is from having learned recently, and I am not an expert, but I'd say avoid reducing angles (unless it's a matter of leverage over the board -- yes, you want that). That tends to slow progress, I think, because it lets you get away with only "gas-pedal" movements. But you suffer because they're inefficient. All the wrong feedback there.

 

Get yourself set up properly: angles allowing slight boot overhang on both edges, about equal amounts (looks a little heel biased in the photo, but hard to tell), front probably a little steeper than rear (or not; whatever allows your joints to work without too much stress). Stance that's comfortable while riding. Don't waste too much time at first fiddling, and give yourself a chance to get used to things. If you ride 18" on soft boots, 17" in hard boots isn't insane. You may change it later, but that's true of a lot of things. It may not even make a lot of difference at first.

 

However: If you chose the 18" stance based on the fact that a lot of soft boot boards don't ride well at the outer insert positions, lay that to rest, it doesn't apply to most alpine boards. In particular, Bruce knows what he's doing. If he put inserts there, he's probably ridden that stance on that board.

 

Now get yourself to a pretty tame, wide, empty slope (as many of those as you can arrange for) and do the Norm.

 

You may need to mess around with cant and lift as the TD3s are stiff. Start with just lift, say 3 degrees heel on the rear (sounds like you have that) and 3 degrees toe in front. So the cant disks indicate the same angle as the bindings. I found this was too much to sort out all at once so used SnowPros at first a lot. They allow some movement, so your settings don't have to be spot on.

[Colozeus]

The Norm. It's natural to try to ride like you would at lower angles, but around 50 degrees or so that becomes extremely inefficient and above it is pretty much impossible. Doing the Norm takes those learned movements out of the mix, letting you get a sense for how the board works.

 

At higher angles you use both "gas-pedal type" (dorsiflexion and plantar flexion if I recall) movements as well as side-to-side (eversion and inversion) movements of the ankle joint. The higher the angles, the more the latter come into play and the less the former do.

 

My advice is from having learned recently, and I am not an expert, but I'd say avoid reducing angles (unless it's a matter of leverage over the board -- yes, you want that). That tends to slow progress, I think, because it lets you get away with only "gas-pedal" movements. But you suffer because they're inefficient. All the wrong feedback there.

 

Get yourself set up properly: angles allowing slight boot overhang on both edges, about equal amounts (looks a little heel biased in the photo, but hard to tell), front probably a little steeper than rear (or not; whatever allows your joints to work without too much stress). Stance that's comfortable while riding. Don't waste too much time at first fiddling, and give yourself a chance to get used to things. If you ride 18" on soft boots, 17" in hard boots isn't insane. You may change it later, but that's true of a lot of things. It may not even make a lot of difference at first.

 

However: If you chose the 18" stance based on the fact that a lot of soft boot boards don't ride well at the outer insert positions, lay that to rest, it doesn't apply to most alpine boards. In particular, Bruce knows what he's doing. If he put inserts there, he's probably ridden that stance on that board.

 

Now get yourself to a pretty tame, wide, empty slope (as many of those as you can arrange for) and do the Norm.

 

You may need to mess around with cant and lift as the TD3s are stiff. Start with just lift, say 3 degrees heel on the rear (sounds like you have that) and 3 degrees toe in front. So the cant disks indicate the same angle as the bindings. I found this was too much to sort out all at once so used SnowPros at first a lot. They allow some movement, so your settings don't have to be spot on.

Cool. I'll give this a shot. Unfortunately only have one canted disc for my td3's. Just ordered another one. 

[Neil Gendzwill]

FWIW, I ride 19.5" which is pretty much bang on the centre of the insert packs on both my Coilers and I'm 6' tall.  17" would be too tight for me for sure.  But I confess I've never done much experimentation, that's just been my stance width for as long as I can remember and never had much motivation to change.  Some people fiddle with things constantly, I'm more of a set it and forget it kind of guy.  I would suggest that you not try to play with too many things at once.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Neil Gendzwill

[BlueB]

Without seeing a video we are just guessing... But are you sure you are not just trying to pivot/slarve the board around? No need. Just tip and rip that thing. Or as TG said, do the Norm first. It would give you the idea of what your board can do with minimum input.

Edited March 9, 2015 by BlueB

[Guest]

What e rings are you riding?  You may find that going with a softer e ring to start will help some.

[Bobby Buggs]

Dont need a video to ask who rides 17 on a carving board? Go 19 and start adjusting from there. Im 5-10 and ride 19.25. Wait till you see how much more stable it is, confidence will come out of that. +1 on the center of both insert packs. Its where I start dialing in my coliers when I get a new one

[michael.a]

I'm an intermediate carver but I keep my boots in walk mode all the time.

Do not ride in walk mode, at least on the front foot. In an accident you can seriously injure your ankles... ask me how I know...

[Colozeus]

Without seeing a video we are just guessing... But are you sure you are not just trying to pivot/slarve the board around? No need. Just tip and rip that thing. Or as TG said, do the Norm first. It would give you the idea of what your board can do with minimum input.

That's probably what i'm trying to do. Next time i go out i'll get some video. 

 

What e rings are you riding?  You may find that going with a softer e ring to start will help some.

Blue, medium stiffness. 

 

Dont need a video to ask who rides 17 on a carving board? Go 19 and start adjusting from there. Im 5-10 and ride 19.25. Wait till you see how much more stable it is, confidence will come out of that. +1 on the center of both insert packs. Its where I start dialing in my coliers when I get a new one

I'm sure there are people/kids out there that ride with 17" stance. Remember, i'm only 5'5" and my legs are on the shorter side. 

 

Do not ride in walk mode, at least on the front foot. In an accident you can seriously injure your ankles... ask me how I know...

I ordered the bomber bts kit. 

[Aracan]

Ah, now we are cooking with gas! You have told us your height :-)

At 5'5", a 20" stance sounds like too much, 17" a bit too little. Try 18" or 18.5".

 

Also, some riders are less comfy with only a small difference between front and rear angles than others, especially if you are coming from a soft setup. Some even ride identical angles front and rear, which others find painfully uncomfortable.

You might try to leave the rear binding where it is, turn the front to 50°-52° and see how that feels. Maybe you will feel the need for a bit of toe lift in front.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Aracan

[lowrider]

Sounds like you need to spend some time watching TV with your boots and bindings on. Perhaps a little  time spent carpet carving will point out what's not going to work.

[Colozeus]

Ah, now we are cooking with gas! You have told us your height :-)

At 5'5", a 20" stance sounds like too much, 17" a bit too little. Try 18" or 18.5".

 

Also, some riders are less comfy with only a small difference between front and rear angles than others, especially if you are coming from a soft setup. Some even ride identical angles front and rear, which others find painfully uncomfortable.

You might try to leave the rear binding where it is, turn the front to 50°-52° and see how that feels. Maybe you will feel the need for a bit of toe lift in front.

 

Ah my bad, thought i had posted my height in the first post. yeah i normally ride 18.5 for my soft setups. I'll play with angles next time i go out. 

[Colozeus]

Sounds like you need to spend some time watching TV with your boots and bindings on. Perhaps a little  time spent carpet carving will point out what's not going to work.

Well i don't have carpet, unfortunately. :-P But yeah, i'm going to spend some time in front of the tv playing around with the setup. 

[st_lupo]

N00b to N00b:

 

I just had my first day on a carving board on sunday. I'm going to do a writeup on the whole thing tonight.  Some of the things that really helped me to adjust are:

1.)Two_raven's post that was mentioned above.  Definitely!  I didn't have to focus so much on her advice while I was riding, but consciously thinking about before setting off downhill definitely did get my stance and balance set correctly.  If your toes point forward on the board, but the rest of your body still wants to face sideways, your going to have a bad day. Two_raven's post really gets my body facing the right way at the start of the run.

2.)For me a big change from softboots was that at first I was trying to use my ankles to steer the board.  On softboots it's natural to carve with your ankles because the boots/bindings don't give enough support.  On hardboots I found I do best when I imagine steering with my shins.  Press your shins/calves into the boot to steer the board.  If you do this you might want to get out of walking mode.

3.)Don't let your hands get behind you.  I really had to focus on keeping my outside hand in front of my on the heelside turns, but it paid off.

4.)Spending lots of time at home to get your boot/binding configuration comfortable and neutral helps.

Edited March 10, 2015 by st_lupo

[Colozeus]

N00b to N00b:

 

I just had my first day on a carving board on sunday. I'm going to do a writeup on the whole thing tonight.  Some of the things that really helped me to adjust are:

1.)Two_raven's post that was mentioned above.  Definitely!  I didn't have to focus so much on her advice while I was riding, but consciously thinking about before setting off downhill definitely did get my stance and balance set correctly.  If your toes point forward on the board, but the rest of your body still wants to face sideways, your going to have a bad day. Two_raven's post really gets my body facing the right way at the start of the run.

2.)For me a big change from softboots was that at first I was trying to use my ankles to steer the board.  On softboots it's natural to carve with your ankles because the boots/bindings don't give enough support.  On hardboots I found I do best when I imagine steering with my shins.  Press your shins/calves into the boot to steer the board.  If you do this you might want to get out of walking mode.

3.)Don't let your hands get behind you.  I really had to focus on keeping my outside hand in front of my on the heelside turns, but it paid off.

4.)Spending lots of time at home to get your boot/binding configuration comfortable and neutral helps.

 

2. This sounds exactly like my problem. I'm expecting to initiate the turn solely by ankle movement, which is probably why i did better in "walk mode". I 

 

Really, i just need to learn the proper technique and eventually it won't feel awkward, but most importantly, i need to get my stance, angles and cants setup properly. 

Edited March 10, 2015 by Colozeus

[Guest]

Colozeus, don't be afraid to play around with any of your settings.  I always keep an Allen wrench on me if I feel the need to play with things on the hill, as having the ability to mess around and see the result of your tinkering immediately is essential.  And fyi, I'm 5'6" and ride a 21.25" stance.

[That Guy...]

Well i don't have carpet, unfortunately. :-P But yeah, i'm going to spend some time in front of the tv playing around with the setup. 

 

I don't either.  I bought a cheap fleece for a twin bed at Walmart and throw that down whenever I need to put a board on the floor.

 

 

3.)Don't let your hands get behind you.  I really had to focus on keeping my outside hand in front of my on the heelside turns, but it paid off.

 

 

 

For fun times later on down the road maybe next season, put your hands behind your back like you're at parade rest and go take an easy run down a green like that.  You'd be amazed at how much you use your arms to help keep you upright.  ;)