Johnny Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 So I was waxing skis and boards last night, and it was wondering, do I really need to scrape? I crayon it on the board and iron that in, usually resulting in little coming off when scraping. I'm usually in or around Ottawa and Tremblant, man made abrasive stuff or ice usually. Won't that do the scraping for me? Any pros or cons of leaving it as is? Ideas? Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilux Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 So I was waxing skis and boards last night, and it was wondering, do I really need to scrape? I crayon it on the board and iron that in, usually resulting in little coming off when scraping. I'm usually in or around Ottawa and Tremblant, man made abrasive stuff or ice usually. Won't that do the scraping for me? Any pros or cons of leaving it as is? Ideas? Thoughts? Scrape. Brush (brass/nylon). Buff....BUT I'm finicky and particular with my waxing. Really depends on what results you want. Cons leaving it on: possibly slower inconsistent glide through turns ie can get "grabby" depending on where there's more/less wax and really throw you off possibly slower overall ride quality (expanding on comment above): bases have "structure" and are porous. Ironing wax in is great for penetrating the base but by leaving it you aren't maximizing what it was designed for...max glide. Using a brush (I'm a huge fan of brass) helps to bring the wax right down to the base structure...again, maximizes glide and is consistent through tip/tail. possibly slower skating along flats Pros leaving it on: whether or not you scrape you are protecting the base from "burn"...which is a good thing!...but you won't get the benefits of what the wax and base/board was designed for. saving time possibly slower skating along flats (good cardio in between runs ;)) Having said all this, try it out. You might find you don't notice any negative effects especially if you are just crayoning it on. You definitely won't damage your board doing this. I've had to leave a thin layer of wax on a couple times do to time constraints before hitting the mountain and don't particularly like it but I still managed to have fun :D Hope that helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queequeg Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Wax is meant to saturate the base, not sit on top of it. Leaving it on top will slow you down, render any base structure you have pointless, and cause you to be somewhat base-high, causing your edges to be less effective. I hope you at least scrape before you sharpen your edges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 I'm a brass brush fan, $6 iron & $5 grill brush from malwart does the job. Typical routine; season start sharpen edges clean base hot crayon hard green wax heavy, maybe drip if base is dry iron scrape recrayon 1" at edges brush crayon, iron, brush. edges again, no scrape ride 1-2 runs or days depnding on base burn at edges deburr (if necessary), crayon, iron, brush just an 1" at edges usually every day or 2 with temp appropriate wax seldom need to reapply the middle of the base unless adding graphite wax for sticky/dirty spring snow. just got a board w/ fresh base I neglected to brush the wax in; took the iron to the hill (forgot brush) and had to rewax the edges (near an outlet on the deck) every run to keep the burn at bay. wax,iron,brush,wax,iron,brush works the wax deeper into the ptex scraping of a lot of excess wax is a waste IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted February 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 There's still structure as I crayoned it on. I'll brush what I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unitednihilists Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 What Queequeg and Hilux said. Just rode a different board that wasn't brushed well enough, slower, no glide. Came home and brushed the bejeebers out of it, and re-rode, it was way better. It takes 5 extra minutes, why wouldn't you? Next time you wax your car, don't buff, see if you notice a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surf Quebec Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Hilux, I loved the possibly slower in the cons and in the pros ! I do not have a dirty place and no garage to take care of my boards, so scraping and brushing my boards in the living room is out of the question... I scrape / brush in the fall , outside, the summer coat of wax and during winter I use the wax whizzard with a minimal brushing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
land surfer Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 if the base looks like glass you re well on the way... i use a combo of brushes... finishing with a toko roller... or a horse hair hand brush if the battery on the drill is dead... if you want to fly you need to spend the time working the base... i find that quality wax also helps alot - i like swix... i ve ridden unscraped wax before... there is a local guy, papa woody that makes a tahoe blend wax... he actually recommends non scrape for the general (non competition) rider... it works well... you just lay it on real real light and drag the iron tip to tail for a finish... i find the first few runs you can notice the drag somewhat but after that she goes real well... i should add this disclaimer... this is all for a freeride skidder :) alpine virgin (but i m coming over to the darkside) cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted February 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Hilux, I loved the possibly slower in the cons and in the pros !I do not have a dirty place and no garage to take care of my boards, so scraping and brushing my boards in the living room is out of the question... I scrape / brush in the fall , outside, the summer coat of wax and during winter I use the wax whizzard with a minimal brushing. Yeah, I do mine on the back of two chairs in the kitchen, my girlfriend's a clean freak and won't like my mess, lol. Scraping tonight. Slower isn't always a con, my girlfriend is a now lower intermediate skier, and wants to ride the lifts with me so slow can be useful once in awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Slow base is a big con my man. When it gets grabby or catchy, it increases the likelyhood you will screw up and get hurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSSage Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 I really don't understand why you would not scrape your base. it will be slower but more importantly it will be grabby and the base will be uneven. If you are not using much wax it is not messy and takes maybe three minutes. If you are going to brush do it before scraping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtslalom Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Definitely scrape your board. As Queequeq said above, wax is made to penetrate your base and fill in the small pours and cracks that you may have in it. Any left over surface wax that hasn't penetrated into these holes and cracks should really be scraped off. In this sense you will have a flat surface to ride on. When I wax a pour on a generous amount of wax and iron it in after heating my base. I make sure to caver the entire base leaving no area uncovered with wax. I let the wax dry and set. I then scrape like crazy. I will spend quit a bit of time scraping until I feel that the base is smooth and planar. This comes only after putting a lot of work into scraping. I personally feel it is VERY important. After scraping I will brush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patmoore Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 I once asked a World Cup tech about not scraping. He was adamant. Always scrape. Granted LF Blue goes on like bubble gum and is really hard to scrape but you need to scrape and brush. Speaking of waxing, here's my hidden wax room. You push on Sigmund Freud's nose and the door opens. Enter and turn right to get to the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtslalom Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Definitely scrape your board. As Queequeq said above, wax is made to penetrate your base and fill in the small pours and cracks that you may have in it. Any left over surface wax that hasn't penetrated into these holes and cracks should really be scraped off. In this sense you will have a flat surface to ride on. When I wax a pour on a generous amount of wax and iron it in after heating my base. I make sure to caver the entire base leaving no area uncovered with wax. I let the wax dry and set. I then scrape like crazy. I will spend quit a bit of time scraping until I feel that the base is smooth and planar. This comes only after putting a lot of work into scraping. I personally feel it is VERY important. After scraping I will brush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
land surfer Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 a hot box works wonders to open up the pores and allow better was penetration to the base... they are easy and cheap to make and there is some good google info regarding the construction and use... i like to use as little wax as possible... just enough to make sure the entire base is covered... i ve seen many guys in shops lay up an 1/8 thick pool... just achieves 2 things - more scrape time (work) and wasted wax ($$$).. great lookin shop patmoore... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.a Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) As a recreational rider, your one and only concern should be maintaining your snowboard, not race tuning it. Do you use race-grade stuff on your car to keep it going? If your waxing is good enough to leave a very thin and even film of wax on the base, then I'd say sure, go ahead. Too much is obviously counterproductive and wasteful and leaves you with an uneven and unsteady base. I'd nonetheless recommend scraping so you do ride on an even base, but don't bother brushing unless you've got nothing else to do. Technically for racing you should scrape leaving a very thin film of wax on the base and then brush that entirely out so as not to have the scraper actually touch the base. I think the pros recommend not even using an iron and use only a hot box and rotary brush, the thinking being that quickly heating and cooling the base over time doesnt do it good. Nonetheless, there is a ton of myth, hearsay, and factual unknowns when it comes ski/snowboard maintenance as well as a lot of the info is entirely overkill for casual riders. Edited February 7, 2014 by michael.a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
land surfer Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Nonetheless, there is a ton of myth, hearsay, and factual unknowns when it comes ski/snowboard maintenance as well as a lot of the info is entirely overkill for casual riders. most definitely... for most folks a basic hot wax / scrape and scotchbrite pad buff is sufficient.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 As a recreational rider, your one and only concern should be maintaining your snowboard, not race tuning it. Do you use race-grade stuff on your car to keep it going?If your waxing is good enough to leave a very thin and even film of wax on the base, then I'd say sure, go ahead. Too much is obviously counterproductive and wasteful and leaves you with an uneven and unsteady base. ...leaving a very thin film of wax on the base and then brush that entirely out so as not to have the scraper actually touch the base. this is me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teach Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 You say you crayon the wax on, then iron. Do you use a sheet of paper between the iron and board base? That makes for a very uniform and thin layer of wax. Riding on this without scraping works fine for me, but I prefer to use a Wax Whizard (http://www.alpineskituning.com/our_products/waxwhizard_tool) afterwards (or just after crayoning, no iron) to work the wax in as much as possible. The first run or two seem a little better and I figure I've made better use of the wax. Maybe worth mentioning that SkiMD recommends the crayon + Wax Whizard for maintenance after one of their tunes. http://www.skimd.com/faq.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zone Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Disclaimer: I know next to nothing about waxing and whether it's really important for a freecarver. I always wonder about how important it is to wax the whole board. I noticed the wax job always seems to last for ever in the main body of the board but goes white really quickly along the 1 inch margin from the edges. My idea is I only really need to pay attention to the 1-1.5 inch margin along the edge since that's where I spend >90% of my time when moving. Also does PTex really 'burn'? Or are you just seeing the wax 'burn' going white? I'm just lazy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 I'm a "warm crayon, iron, wizard, aggressively brush" kind of guy myself. I use as little wax as I can and still saturate the base, and the brushing removes the unwanted remains. If I apply too much at the crayon stage and brushing doesn't get me where I want to be, I'll scrape and then repeat the brushing step... with practice this doesn't happen often. The only exception is that I apply more wax when "summerizing" my boards, and do a normal scrape when I set up the boards the following season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teach Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 The white is "abraded" p-tex. It means the wax is long gone and you're wearing your base down. This is worse on manmade snow, I think. I have used "x-cold" powder wax (most wax companies have one) along the edges when I hot wax to combat this. It works (takes a lot longer for the white to appear) but after reading the SkiMD information I'm not sure it's the right thing to do... the claim is that it closes up the pores in the p-tex and makes it impossible for wax to be exuded from the base to do its job (lubrication). ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 My idea is I only really need to pay attention to the 1-1.5 inch margin along the edge since that's where I spend >90% of my time when moving.I'm just lazy... Same! The middle of my board is covered in a gob of unscraped wax. The 1-1.5 inch margin gets a crayon/drip/wax the night before I go riding. I leave the wax on there. By the end of the day the 1-1.5 inch region is "scraped," no base burn, no white, and I can see the base structure. Then I might ride that once more before rinse/repeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.a Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Yea, thats base abrasion, Ive never used any of the x-cold stuff but always use the hardest cold temp wax I've got around the edges and go with whatever suitable temp stuff on the rest of the base. The idea that it closes up the pores is kind of weird, it still is just a wax in powder form albeit very hard and I'd think a hot scrape would "get it out". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 I tried not scraping, but the excess wax cracked and some parts peeled off when bending the board in a turn. It seems to last forever in the middle of the board anyway, so why not scrape? I've become a big fan of the Wax Wizard too. My iron hasn't been used for 3 years now, and I'm about 1/3-way through a $20 block of wax in that same time. I crayon whatever wax is appropriate for that day's temp on the middle and buff it in with the Wizard, but only if it's different from the last time I rode. Then I crayon hard/cold wax on the outer 1.5" and buff it in. The edges last 1 day on the cold man-made snow at home, or all 6 days of SES in Colorado on warm snow that came from real clouds in the sky. LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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