Gromel brand alpine boards ?

[Chris Houghton]

"As i see materials don't cost not even half of what your estimate is,"

I went through the website, there are no inserts, no nose or tail pieces, no Titanal and still it was over $100. So maybe you could put together the material for a board for $150. Maybe. Basic board, no options of metal, rubber or extra carbon fiber. How do you think it will ride? And how long did that $200 Nitro last, and why did you have to pay for a replacement?

You get what you pay for. If you're happy to take last year's factory production at a huge markdown, great you are getting a super deal, but last year's technology. They just want to move them out to make room for the new stuff. I don't think that you should assume they are making money at that price, they just want to move them out. If you continue to purchase that way you could save yourself a lot of money. Actually a good plan if you don't mind non-current product.

Others don't mind paying more to have current product, even custom made product to their skill and ability level. A regular production board, even the current year, is not good enough for these people. This is what they tell me when I ask.

If you get a Gromel come back and give us a ride report.

[AMK]

why they don't sent some demo boards so people can try it?

You need only few demos to make the name ( or opinion ) slowly if there is any name to make.

[bobdea]

do you think the builder's time is worth nothing?

you shingle a roof for example, that's mostly labor costs in the US. and roofers generally make decent money, not exactly getting rich.........

[KingCrimson]

Well i don't know shiat about making a board but if you would like i can build you a wall or even a roof !

I guess that all the manufacturers you mentioned don't shop from that guy and i don't know the quality of there materials ,maybe someone can enlighten us!

I guess all of the boutique board makers make there own cores but do they weave there carbon fibres and glass fibres, make there own epoxy and sidewalls and inserts and steel edges?

I guess not!

Maybe they even buy from the same guy that provides the other guy with the low-cost materials which i think that you wanted to say low-quality!

And in that case material cost drops even more!

From what i see there is no titanal on that site,but please tell me something ,when you order a metal construction is there a difference in the price then a normal old school glass-carbon fibre construction?

And If yes does this justify the difference in the price:

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/94551/what-a-ski-costs-to-make

Man if you want you could put a gold topsheet with real diamonds on a board and that boutique board would cost 20,000$ in the U.S but if there was (theoretically!)a china man who knew how to build a damn good board and used gold from turkey and diamonds from sierra Leone and could make the same quality board it would cost 20 times less!

And that's a fact!

Here is another cheap low quality material site:

http://www.skibuilders.com/howto/skicon/materials.shtml

You're starting to sound like Pastor Terry Jones..

[valsam]

"As i see materials don't cost not even half of what your estimate is,"

I went through the website, there are no inserts, no nose or tail pieces, no Titanal and still it was over $100. So maybe you could put together the material for a board for $150. Maybe. Basic board, no options of metal, rubber or extra carbon fiber. How do you think it will ride? And how long did that $200 Nitro last, and why did you have to pay for a replacement?

You get what you pay for. If you're happy to take last year's factory production at a huge markdown, great you are getting a super deal, but last year's technology. They just want to move them out to make room for the new stuff. I don't think that you should assume they are making money at that price, they just want to move them out. If you continue to purchase that way you could save yourself a lot of money. Actually a good plan if you don't mind non-current product.

Others don't mind paying more to have current product, even custom made product to their skill and ability level. A regular production board, even the current year, is not good enough for these people. This is what they tell me when I ask.

If you get a Gromel come back and give us a ride report.

Well i guess you went straight through that website that's why you didn't see the inserts:

http://snowboardmaterials.com/pages/inserts.htm

Damn those inserts cost a fortune ,30 cents a piece in a 500 pcs box!

there's option for as much glass-carbon fibre you want for 10$ a meter!

I guess that rubber must also cost a fortune like the inserts too!

Well is it that i pay for what i get for or that u pay much more than what something is worth?

NITRO Super gs super stiff boards aint good for big leaps and deep powder !

Do you think that i should have gotten replaced in warranty after i took a nose dive after a jump following my freeride softboot friends!

Damn it that i never thought that they would replace it for free!

Really i didn't realize what gigantic leaps technology took in boardcustruction that a last year top snowboard can be outdated and seen as a non-current product!

If that's the case then i will wait till next year to buy an up to date 2012 model that will even go up words the slopes too so there is no need to wait at the lift lines!

Do you think that technology will be ready even sooner?

From your avatar i can see that you are a tech freak ,what is that a car ,a bike ,or maybe a rocket ship?

[valsam]

You're starting to sound like Pastor Terry Jones..

Who the hell is Pastor Terry Jones?

I'm not from the states although i was born there and lived there for 14 years and altho i am a U.S citizen i consider my self 100%Greek!

Please tell me do you think i will burn in hell for my blasphemy?

[Buell]

This is feeling familiar. Valsam, are you channeling photodad?

You are actually dissing on another poster's avatar photo? For all the smack you talk, have you seen yours? Maybe it is part of the character.

I've seen enough of your posts, on this and other topics, to say you have got to be a troll.

[KingCrimson]

Who the hell is Pastor Terry Jones?

I'm not from the states although i was born there and lived there for 14 years and altho i am a U.S citizen i consider my self 100%Greek!

Please tell me do you think i will burn in hell for my blasphemy?

He was the guy who caused a poo-storm by calling 9/11 "Burn the Quran Day"

I'm not calling you a Florida redneck by any means, but Pastor Jones has a knack for continually indoctrinating his views, while simultaneously admitting he doesn't know what he's talking about. You seem to share this talent.

[Dan]

Look if there was a mass market for alp sticks then WalMart would stock the China Razor 185 made by Christian Chinese slave labor. The Chinks will knock off anything, the Japanese did it , it is human nature.

Not many Christians in China, actually. "Chink" is a racist and derogatory term for Chinese people; were you not aware of that, or are you being deliberately offensive?

[xy9ine]

i'm eagerly awaiting the release of the $100 gromel plate.

[bobdea]

what's with the asian hate on this forum?

I've heard term for viets, koreans, japanese and the chinese on here....... kinda ****ed.

[trailertrash]

Not many Christians in China, actually. "Chink" is a racist and derogatory term for Chinese people; were you not aware of that, or are you being deliberately offensive?

what's with the asian hate on this forum?

I've heard term for viets, koreans, japanese and the chinese on here....... kinda ****ed.

Is this enough to ban him? It would end his drivel and give him time to go learn how to use the english language and the internet.

[queequeg]

Not many Christians in China, actually. "Chink" is a racist and derogatory term for Chinese people; were you not aware of that, or are you being deliberately offensive?

Seriously! What is this 1881???

[KingCrimson]

Is this enough to ban him? It would end his drivel and give him time to go learn how to use the english language and the internet.

#3. Racial slurs, excessive profanity, and sexual language will not be tolerated. Images which might be considered sexually provocative or offensive to others must not be posted nor referenced (hyperlinked). Please use your best judgment.

[lowrider]

Valsam and Steve are going to have to join the Wikileaks guy if this keeps up. Play nice guy's Santa is watching.

[Chris Houghton]

Claims he was born in the usa but walks and talks like a greek...........I agree it's a troll.

[Willow 15]

And i am sure that the guy who sold me the last year 600$ board for 240$ still made a profit(if it is anywhere near the profit margin that clothes have even with 90%discount!)

This is my opinion and if you guys like it or not i don't give a damn!

You are quite correct, its your opinion. The truth is snowboard hardwear has little profit margins for shops.

I also work very part time in the building industry and profit margins compared to a sporting pastime are huge. If I comisioned a carpenter to make me a replica antique gaming table it would cost thousands, but if I want a bespoke alpine snowboard built to my specification it will cost me around a thousand.

Kill bad guy's & protect the inocent & the weak

I hope you are not a cop, but I suspect you are.

[valsam]

This is feeling familiar. Valsam, are you channeling photodad?

You are actually dissing on another poster's avatar photo? For all the smack you talk, have you seen yours? Maybe it is part of the character.

I've seen enough of your posts, on this and other topics, to say you have got to be a troll.

O yes i wrote on another topic that i prefer ed the extreme eurocarve style riding than the racing style of the guy who posted it and all of you ran to eat me alive!

Please save me the hypocrisy!

Is it provoking not to agree with someone or not to like something in here,or see it from another point of view,and for that you call me a troll?

You criticize me for dissing another posters avatar and yet you do the same to me ,yes i was a little out of line with chris houghton,but i was irritated by queequeg sarcastic post!

And all because i disagreed that a board that isnt expensive is automatically a joke ,before anyone even rode the damn board or tested it!!!!!

I tried to back up my writings by searching for material prices and then the sarcasm started again!

Someone even wrote something about my economic status!

And yet I'm the one provoking!

I get it now how things work in here,from now on if i post i will always agree to everything and always make flattering comments on everyone's posts and never say that i know anything at all about anything!

Like wow awesome board! ,killer topsheet dude!,terrific style man!,

Is that gonna work for me?

I WILL BE A NICE BOY FROM NOW ON!

PLEASE EXEPT ME IN YOUR LARGE FAMILY OF HARDBOOTERS!

OR MAYBE NOT!!!!!!!!!!!

AGAIN,PLEASE SAVE ME THE HIPOCRACY!!!!!!!!!!

[valsam]

Claims he was born in the usa but walks and talks like a greek...........I agree it's a troll.

And just when i was about to say sorry about the remarks on the batmobile!

Is that a prejudice remark about Greeks????

[Chris Houghton]

We exept you. Sorry the avatar offended you, I have fixed it to look similar to yours, but heelside not toeside. Please don't yell at us, we come here to escape.

[pow4ever]

I do see your point regarding "cheap doesn't mean bad".

Especially for the DIYer.

for ex:

My car is full of home depot HW. It's much cheaper than equivalent auto parts; and many time it works better. Home Depot performance for life!!!

too bad everything isn't just about material cost.

it's much harder to put a price tag on Idea/craftsmanship.

Steve Job comes out with the idea of I-"thingy".

He get pay a tons of money for his vision. I can put something together for cheaper but it's not going to be as polish nor as shiny. In fact it will be cover with duct tape :)

i get paid to pound the keyboard for a living. A monkey can do that but the result isn't always going to be the same.

same logic a Picasso shouln't cost that much; after all it's just canvas and oil paint. It doesn't even come with the paint brush.

could go on and on and on...

for all we know Gromel could be the unfound gem that's waiting to be discover. But in this days and ages if something is too good to be true; it probably is.

break is over time for me to go back and work on the raidroad....

[boarderboy]

I do see your point regarding "cheap doesn't mean bad".

Especially for the DIYer.

for all we know Gromel could be the unfound gem that's waiting to be discover. But in this days and ages if something is too good to be true; it probably is.

I'd love to buy a cheap Ebay Gromel, try it with my Mondo 30 AT's and, if it holds up, bicycle it out for review by some real hardbooters.

Many moons ago, Phil Sauers of Phil Surfboards made the following statement in a Surfer Mag interview, "A surfboard's a surfboard as long as it's shaped well, glassed well, and ridden well." How true! Especially the part about "ridden well."

Unfortunately for "Phil", the quote played right into the hands of the "Custom is King" crowd who uncritically worshiped any poly blank that had been hand-shaped and decently laminated with two layers of Volan finish fiberglass. (Mr. Sauers had committed the unforgivable faux pas of allowing his boards to be featured in one of the Gidget movies, you see.)

The truth then, and now, however was that Joey Cabell, or Mickey Dora, or Tommy Curren, or Kelly Slater could probably paddle out in junk surf on the lowliest, mass-produced "pop out" and make it sing like a Stradivarius.

No doubt Priors, Doneks, Coilers, "Sigis", and Pogos ad infinitum are worth every penny of their considerable cost. But, Jesus, to a very real extent, a snowboard's a snowboard if you'll just open your mind and ride the bugger.

Pardon the rant. I'm imperfectly, and unwillingly sober at the moment.

P.S. I like the Greek alphabet - a lot!! At one time, I could recite it 25 times before a kitchen match burned down to my fingertips...

Phi, Chi, Psi, Omega...

BB

[tufty]

http://snowboardmaterials.com/pages/materials.htm

Please do the math!

As i see materials don't cost not even half of what your estimate is, and if you consider that that's just materials for 1 board how much price drop would you get if you order for mass production ?

Snowboardmaterials.com are massively expensive, and what you're looking at, i.e. raw materials, is far from being a particularly significant factor in what it costs to design, prototype, test, produce and sell a model of snowboard.

This summer, a bloke at the local ski manufacturers *gave* me enough material to make 3 boards. That's race-grade p-tex, edges, damping rubber, inserts, triax glass and topsheet material. He offered me cores, but I turned him down (gotta do *some* work, eh?). He considered this was "throwaway" material, and when I offered to pay, was told "send me photos".

What you're paying for when you buy a snowboard or ski is, in large part, tooling and time. And when you're dealing with small manufacturers, you also get the option of a custom-made product; there's no way you're gonna get that from one of the big manufacturers unless you're a world cup racer.

That said, I don't see any particular (or even potential) problems with the Gromel boards linked apart from an asymmetric layup with glass+glass on top and glass+carbon underneath. And the prices are certainly attractive. I'd like to try one.

[SteveInOregon]

Not many Christians in China, actually. "Chink" is a racist and derogatory term for Chinese people; were you not aware of that, or are you being deliberately offensive?

Christians:> True, as most are on permanent vacation dead >dragged off the street by the "ChiCom" version of the old KGB, hands tied behind back , pistol shot into base of head ....or.... On Thrown into education camps slave labor gulags making Jesus & Mary Christmas figurines in ( companies) for shipment to Americans.

The only Christians in China are State Christians , the real ones who speak out are distinctly missing. The "church" you see in China is a Potemkin stage set made for US and other Christian tourists.

Granted my use of the term Chinks was wrong, nay misplaced, as my heart and mind were focusing on Chinese Communists not the average Chinese person thus I should have said ChiComs those evil leaders and their SS like militias who persecute ANY religious minority .

Replace Christian with Buddhist Dali Lama or Falun Gong a native peaceful spiritual movement which is into truth, compassion, and forbearance whatch as they get dragged away into oblivion.

Any Chinese folks out here let me say >sorry I did not mean that about an entire race / nationality.

To any Communist > die.

[Jack M]

Christians:> True, as most are on permanent vacation dead >dragged off the street by the "ChiCom" version of the old KGB, hands tied behind back , pistol shot into base of head ....or.... On Thrown into education camps slave labor gulags making Jesus & Mary Christmas figurines in ( companies) for shipment to Americans.

The only Christians in China are State Christians , the real ones who speak out are distinctly missing. The "church" you see in China is a Potemkin stage set made for US and other Christian tourists.

Granted my use of the term Chinks was wrong, nay misplaced, as my heart and mind were focusing on Chinese Communists not the average Chinese person thus I should have said ChiComs those evil leaders and their SS like militias who persecute ANY religious minority .

Replace Christian with Buddhist Dali Lama or Falun Gong a native peaceful spiritual movement which is into truth, compassion, and forbearance whatch as they get dragged away into oblivion.

Any Chinese folks out here let me say >sorry I did not mean that about an entire race / nationality.

To any Communist > die.

Steve... umm... not quite sure what to do with you. You really need to read the rules of each forum here before you post again in any of them. This place is not a free-for-all. These forums have been around since 1999, and have matured over time. We do not use them as internet rumpus rooms. Thanks in advance for your cooperation and respect.

This thread is all over the place! Can we please avoid any more posts that don't have something to do with Gromel?