Tell Me About (TMA) how to adjust your carving radius

[Seraph]

So I can make linked turns and starting to carve consistently when I want to. What I'm curious about is when I throw my hip over to initiate my turn, I'm basically locking into a carve and its a big radius. I ride it through toeside, go into my heelside, and again big radius. The radius is so big, it feels like I am using up the whole run going from side to side on a medium width run. It's not bad, actually a lot of fun, but I do get a little paranoid on each turn and try and look uphill to make sure I'm not going to T-bone someone.

So what I'm wondering about is what can I do to make that radius tighter and still get the board carving at those same speeds? Do I need to get my hip over more, get my board tilted even higher, should I be shifting my weight forward earlier or have more weight forward (I tend to right with my weight right in the middle of the board).

For reference, I am riding a Donek Axxess.

Thanks for any advice you can provide.

[ncermak]

the outcome of any move on a snowboard is based on Timing, Intensity and duration. Long gentle turns are begotten by a long gentle move over a longer time. short snappy turns use a faster more powerful move, play with the TID of your turning moves to vary turn radius...

[big mario]

So what I'm wondering about is what can I do to make that radius tighter and still get the board carving at those same speeds?

Dan,

Leave the hordes at the park(winter) and come and play with us @ lovey, Or join me @ the basin next Sat, and lets see what you are doing and what you could be doing. If I can't help, I'm sure one of the other lovey knuckleheads could help you out. Sometimes it is easier to show than to tell

mario

[Rob Stevens]

You might be giving it all the hip you need. Too much more and you could be too locked in.

Hard to say with no vid.

Just the same, leg action is probably the key now... "Gas" your toes, with forceful ankle flexion. Back foot pivot (lift your front foot and nose to a higher line as you finish a turn) and piston with your knees, creating pressure front and back (think "Ollies", "Dolphin" turns).

Just activate down there. Then you're past the hump of the fast (but intermediate) side cut ride, into changing your radius while still carving.

Ride a race deck in powder... That'll get you legs working and crash you out if you get too hippy.

[Seraph]

Dan,

Leave the hordes at the park(winter) and come and play with us @ lovey, Or join me @ the basin next Sat, and lets see what you are doing and what you could be doing. If I can't help, I'm sure one of the other lovey knuckleheads could help you out. Sometimes it is easier to show than to tell

mario

Actually, I was going to post on the LCI thread to see if any of you guys were going to ride April 3rd or 4th. Can't do next Saturday, although the offer is appreciated.

[davekempmeister]

what Rob said, yeah. I know nothing but when I read your post I immediately thought about how toes, feet and ankles manipulate the board.

[b0ardski]

to bend the spoon you must be the spoon:ices_ange

[NateW]

If you enter the turn with more speed, you can lean in further (more "inclination"), thus getting more edge angle, thus turning tighter. Up to a point, anyway.

You can also tighten up the radius a bit by increasing your edge angle without fully leaning in (this is "angulation"). But that's cheating. Go faster and you won't have to. :)

A shorter sidecut radius will also give you tighter turns, but that's less fun than going faster.

[Chris Houghton]

More pressure on the nose at the start of the turn? Hard to say without actually seeing the situation.

[big mario]

Actually, I was going to post on the LCI thread to see if any of you guys were going to ride April 3rd or 4th. Can't do next Saturday, although the offer is appreciated.

I will be back @ lovey on Sunday, we usually have a bunch out, so the 4th would probably be better

mario

[Dr D]

more angulation early in the carve and shift weight to back foot coming out of it. more weight shift = tighter turn ( you may also launch yourself into next week depending on the board)

[valsam]

That's why i turned to smaller radius and softer boards so i do not need to take up the hole mountain at insane speeds to do some really laid down turns!

It is never too late you guys but "smaller is better"!

Saturday there where about five teenagers (they where wearing Greek national team suits)with there kessler's ( black and silver ones over 1,80 height boards) and could not even touch the snow one hand down because i could see that those boards could not bend enough (at least for there weight)to come to an arc fitted for the width of the run,and one came up to me (with my cheap glass oxygen 1.69) to ask me how the hell do i get so low and i told him that you have to spend 100euros (e-bay)for a board for extreme carving and not 1000 for a board that is built for racing!

After that i guess i wanted to show off a little bit and showed him my gloves that i poured glue on top of them for the dragging and my jacket that has worn out in the front and my new pants (black)that are grey only on the right but cheek from ass dragging(goofy),But i forgot to tell him that i have been riding for 21 years(before he was even born)!

[bobdea]

That's why i turned to smaller radius and softer boards so i do not need to take up the hole mountain at insane speeds to do some really laid down turns!

It is never too late you guys but "smaller is better"!

Saturday there where about five teenagers (they where wearing Greek national team suits)with there kessler's ( black and silver ones over 1,80 height boards) and could not even touch the snow one hand down because i could see that those boards could not bend enough (at least for there weight)to come to an arc fitted for the width of the run,and one came up to me (with my cheap glass oxygen 1.69) to ask me how the hell do i get so low and i told him that you have to spend 100euros (e-bay)for a board for extreme carving and not 1000 for a board that is built for racing!

After that i guess i wanted to show off a little bit and showed him my gloves that i poured glue on top of them for the dragging and my jacket that has worn out in the front and my new pants (black)that are grey only on the right but cheek from ass dragging(goofy),But i forgot to tell him that i have been riding for 21 years(before he was even born)!

are you for real?

you're saying that actual racers were not able to drag hands? maybe that are making a point not to?

that's rich.

[Corey]

Three things worked for me:

1. Angulate more. Then more, then more again. Touch your front boot with your outside hand. Then extend your hand out past your board. The more you can get that board up on edge, the more it'll turn. The hands don't really matter, but it forces you to get in a good body position without thinking about hip angles and the like. If you feel tempted to reach for the snow, stop yourself. That destroys this angulation. Do this right and the snow will come up and hit your hip/knee/whatever without you even trying. That's a DAMN cool feeling.

2. Concentrate your force on a spot about 6" in front of your front binding very early in the turn. Right after the board is on edge. Push that spot hard to get the board started in that tight arc.

3. Slow down, concentrate on technique rather than huge G-force. This is a bit of a mind job - you're going to fall a few times to the inside. But during that fall you'll feel the board start to hook. You'll develop the balance point with practice and stop falling.

I've ridden with some great riders that can bend big radius boards into really tight arcs given enough steepness or speed. You need energy to do this, on flatter terrain you slow down too much between turns. Try it on a blue run to build confidence.

[Seraph]

Do a search on "float" and read to your hearts content.

Done...I think I get what your going for..gonna woodshed it this weekend...questions to follow.

Three things worked for me:

1. Angulate more.

2. Concentrate your force on a spot about 6" in front of your front binding very early in the turn.

3. Slow down, concentrate on technique rather than huge G-force.

Yup, this makes sense too...Can't wait till saturday to work it out. I hate the idea that the season is fading just as I'm starting to really have fun with it. I think its going to feel like a very long summer. :rolleyes:

[KingCrimson]

You need to bend it, twist it, manhandle it! Make it do what you want it to do not let it do to you what it wants to do. This topic has been coverd heavily and anaylized to the nth degree by the experts. Some think it can be done, others object. I, know for a fact that it can be done. Snowboards can be commanded to do lots of things that they shouldn't if you can get use to forceful finess and twist that board up a little. Do a search on "float" and read to your hearts content.

Think Snow!

Seriously, I always thought this was all fine and dandy, but I ask you..

Who would ever make the Apex plate if independent foot action for the purposes of imparting flex into the board worked? In particular for racing, in which edge feathering is a critical component. I think it's rather questionable to twist the board..

[carvedog]

are you for real?

you're saying that actual racers were not able to drag hands? maybe that are making a point not to?

that's rich.

valsam has fun doing his gig man. smaller sandbox maybe. no offense.

I supported you wanting to drag it sometimes but don't think that worn out clothes are a substitute for good race technique.

Theo - I can't say that I have ridden with a plate but I put a lot of torque and twist into my boards all the time. Can't really imagine not being able to. I would try if a plate was available. Pedaling is a great way to get a lot earlier turn that what you should be able to from a long board.

[wingnuts514]

to bend the spoon you must be the spoon:ices_ange

...you must realize there never was a spoon.

[Steve Prokopiw]

If racing performance and technique is what you're after,then by all means get a plate, add the weight,and isolate yourself from the terrain feedback(Theo).If freecarving is what you crave then make the board your beeatch and twist and flex it into submission and then let it unwind and pop for a little air in between turns.The boards that I have had the most fun on reward this kind of input proportionately.They are fun to use racing form on as well as 'freeform'.They also spank me when I'm lazy;in a 'hurts so good' kind of way:)

[bobdea]

Seriously, I always thought this was all fine and dandy, but I ask you..

Who would ever make the Apex plate if independent foot action for the purposes of imparting flex into the board worked? In particular for racing, in which edge feathering is a critical component. I think it's rather questionable to twist the board..

ohh christ, this argument is going now.

IMO, both are right, I feel all this talk of twisting the board is more about delivering pressure and you're not really effectively applying any real twist to the board. aasi types love talking about twisting the board, I think how they see it is complete BS but it does work in the sense that it's a way to tell a rider apply input.

[Steve Prokopiw]

ohh christ, this argument is going now.

IMO, both are right, I feel all this talk of twisting the board is more about delivering pressure and you're not really effectively applying any real twist to the board. aasi types love talking about twisting the board, I think how they see it is complete BS but it does work in the sense that it's a way to tell a rider apply input.

for a few reasons;but the act of trying to twist the board is exactly what I feel I am performing.I would bet whatever is in my meager wallet that I do,in fact,twist the board.The more torsionally compliant the more twist...Despite the intelligence you exibit in many of your posts,I think how you see a lot of things is complete bs.At least we have that in common.

[jp1]

Maybe (just maybe)the recreational rider doesn't necessarily need the same things in a 'Plate System' that a racer does How about separate plates front and back, allowing the board to flex torsionally with 'recreational riders input' .

[AaronG]

As I read through this post one thing that has yet to be mentioned is head/ eye position. Head/ eye position is critical, are you looking to where you want to go?? I usually spy a tree or some other fixed object on the opposite side of the run and focus on that. You want a tighter turn, look further up the hill for something. By locking in on something it brings your shoulders and chest across the hill. I have seen many carvers look down the hill, their chests are facing that way also. They get the long radius turns that you describe in your original post.

I learned this lesson when I used to water ski competitively. When you are skiing a slalom course and rounding the turn bouys, going from one side of the boat to the other one thing that a coach will always say is " Don't look at the turn ball. Look at it and you will ski right to it". This will get you in trouble as you make you way down the slalom course. Coach always told me to fixate 4 feet in front of the turn bouy and ski to that point. Again, by rotating your head and looking to where you want to go this brings your shoulders and chest into position also.

In the carving world we just have gravity to fight against but when it comes to slalom skiing that boat is pulling you down the slalom course at 36 mph, 34 if you're my age. You are in a literal tug o' war with the boat. Incorrect body position that boat will win every time.

I strongly suggest you go and hook up with Mario and the rest of the LCI. They have offered me suggestions that helped me out on my riding!!

[bobdea]

for a few reasons;but the act of trying to twist the board is exactly what I feel I am performing.I would bet whatever is in my meager wallet that I do,in fact,twist the board.The more torsionally compliant the more twist...Despite the intelligence you exibit in many of your posts,I think how you see a lot of things is complete bs.At least we have that in common.

touchy touchy

it does work, I just don't think it does EXACTLY what some people THINK it accomplishes. I say this based having felt enough boards underfoot to realize pedaling only will give you a couple degrees of angle but the attempt at actually trying to twist the board could benefit in the sense of putting weight where it needs to be to get the board doing what you want.

was not stating this as gospel of how the boards work, I'm stating that from what I can tell it's a case of wishful thinking.

we all twist the board, I don't think that makes nearly as much differences as some people want to think. if it did, these single surface plates would make it much harder to ride a board effectively.

I had a k2 I could twist the hell out of, it was not always a good thing. too stiff torsionally and boards would be miserable to ride I'm betting, some warping needs to be there but I feel it's not something we can really control all that much.

Convince me I'm wrong, I really am open on this I just have seen no evidence to support what some people say. it would be hard to prove too, or, disprove for that matter.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Gain 50lbs, the board WILL bend.

In other words. You must Load the board to bend it tighter.

More edge angle, more pressure on the center of the board = tighter radius.

And not to forget D-Sub's favorite tip. "Be more Dynamic" !!!