Should we offer a Sub-Forum for Softboot Carving?

[Buell]

Don't waste your time. I've got something better for you to talk to....

Can we get rid of this guy and his drive for negative attention yet? He offers nothing but headaches.

[zler]

<snip>

Given that, though....there is one term i have NEVER understood, and that is the terrm: "Alpine". What?? As if there is such a thing as "Nordic" snowboarding!! In my humble opinion, and I may indeed be quite wrong, ALL snowboarding is ALPINE. So, what's up with the term??? Just askin'.

rockin' the triple entendre

[Buell]

Here, I googled it for you - Alpine Snowboarding.

[heroshmero]

Can we get rid of this guy and his drive for negative attention yet? He offers nothing but headaches.

Yeah, photodad2001 called me a.... a... SKIER! I'm so offended.

;)

[Alaskan Rover]

Zler:

Yeah...I know. I saw that vid....it cracked me up. The first 10 seconds of it, I thought they were serious! This same vidography team has another vid called "Aggressive Walking"....reminded me of times when my friends and I were in college and we'd walk around downtown without moving our arms at all. Just kept them plastered to our sides. Passersby would look at us, determine something wasn't quite right, but they couldn't figure out what...so they'd just sorta look at us, do a casual double-take...trying all the while to not look like they were looking. Used to crack us up. Sometimes, if one does something just slightly off the radar of normalcy...it is actually more befuddling than doing something totally whacked out crazy. Crazy, they can deal with...there's a box for that...gotta nice, neat label. But something just a little bit different, wee bit weird...nope, they can't deal with it...no box for that. People are funny, sometimes.

[carvingchef]

I ride hardboots probably 80% of the time and soffboot 20% so I’m not trying to take any specific side here, but during the winter Olympics I noticed that there were threads about ice skating, biathlon, luge race, hockey, where to watch the Olympics, how they brought snow to the mountain, even about what kind of clothes or uniforms they wore, and nobody was complaining, nobody suggested those threads to be removed or for those people to go to a winter Olympic forum, but as soon as somebody mention “softboots” the “hardboot police” is out to get them and of course the “hardcore softbooters” fight back and it turns into an argument that really has no winner at the end (if it ever ends)

Not trying to piss off anybody here, just stating some facts

I think that if there was a section for softbooters a lot of unnecessary argument could be avoided if members are civil enough to consider these suggestions, please note that I said suggestions and not rules

if you are strictly a softbooter you should know which thread does not pertain to you, stay out of it

if you are strictly a hardbooter you should know which thread does not pertain to you, stay out of it

if you use both hardboots and softboots you should know which thread is for which, choose wisely and stay within the subject

can we please stop the insanity? At the rate this thread is moving in a month it will have more pages than OT: waaaaaaay OT....

[Rob Stevens]

... is a "Technique" forum.

It's mostly about angles anyway.

Otherwise, it's a gear discussion.

I will put my NoBoard stuff in the new "Fish" forum

[b0ardski]

where's my box? I can't find it. How am I ever gonna get on with my life:smashfrea

Actually I had big fun drinking beer in the sun in between slashin slush bumps and carving snocone coated icepack today.

[Alaskan Rover]

I ride hardboots probably 80% of the time and soffboot 20% so I’m not trying to take any specific side here, but during the winter Olympics I noticed that there were threads about ice skating, biathlon, luge race, hockey, where to watch the Olympics, how they brought snow to the mountain, even about what kind of clothes or uniforms they wore, and nobody was complaining, nobody suggested those threads to be removed or for those people to go to a winter Olympic forum, but as soon as somebody mention “softboots” the “hardboot police” is out to get them and of course the “hardcore softbooters” fight back and it turns into an argument that really has no winner at the end (if it ever ends)

Not trying to piss off anybody here, just stating some facts.......can we please stop the insanity?....

Carvingchef: I don't think you'll piss ppl off by saying that, and if you do...then that is there own fault. What you say is most definitely apropos and germane to the discusssion. I have no doubt what you say about the forum during the Olympics is right. There is, apparently, a small contingent here that is the "hardboot police"...although I consider them the "Hardboot Taliban"...as they seem that there is only THEIR way or no way....oh wait...that's the Norwegians...

I would presume that if I pose questions in their holy hardboot thread such as "What is the best hardboot for shopping at Whole Foods M"arket?" or... "What is the best color hardboot to wear while meeting with the Pope at the Vatican?"...or "What angle should I keep my hardboot at while racing my Pinto?"...or more importantly: "What color should I paint the pedestal that I keep my hardboots on?...gold or chartruesse?"....that these questions would be perfectly fine...as they are hardboot questions.

These Hardboot Taliban are an odd lot...one seems to depise all other forms of snowboard gear so much that he forbids his two youing kids to learn snowboarding (as there is no Alpine equipment for small kids yet), so he has them on skis INSTEAD of snowboards. Little kids are GREAT at learning snowboarding...it's a natural thing for them, Another just prefers to cover his ears and puts EVERYBODY he has a slight disagreement with on his "ignore" list. Another has a tendancy to go back and count people's posts so that he can see who has been naughty and who has been nice...(Santa's Workshop would be a good place for him...he can be Santa's list-keeper); this same elf believes that people should lurk for a year or three before they peep a word. Another one (think of Frosty) is just plain so pugillistic and pugnacious that he probably has dreams at night about hitting some softbooter in the back of the knees with his freecarve board while they're not expecting it. That's the Taliban at work.

Yeah, I ride softboots...because while I spend most of every run either carving or high speed flatboarding, I still like to throw a decent method off some mid-slope kicker and land fakie and transition that fakie to smooth carve. There is no way I can set boots on a narrow carve board at 15 and 5 without hella toe-drag and there is no way I'm going to safely land a backside shifty stalefish with hardboots at 55/55. Maybe Jeremy Jones can and continue some sweet race carves directly after, but not me. So I adjust my 2-strappers and my stiff boots (I have a temporary plastic molded forward boot-tongue form that I use and skate lace keys for tightening for carve) to an aggressive carve stance if I want to carve ALL day, but mostly I stay at 15/5 so I can do both. I almost NEVER duck-foot. I have three places marked with a sharpie on my discs, keep my nut-driver with me, and OFTEN change my stance as needed through-out the day. I have 3 places marked on my discs, because I love AND have the ability to do 3 different types of boarding...carve, all-mountain and park/pipe. I have outshredded tons of hardbooters who thought they could outpace me on the mountain... they always look at my equipment after I blew them off with a WTF-look on their faces. It's truly hilarious. There are alot on here who think that softbooters are slow and ungraceful and can't do a true carve at speed. Well...I'll be at Wintergreen, VA this mid-week wearing a grey/black parka dark green hat and either red, yellow or black pants ('pending on temp) and a big black FatBob to prove them wrong if they can keep up. While they're "hugging the mountain"...I'll be already down at the bottom.If there is an old english vintage Land-Rover with a rack in the lot. that'll be me. I only say that because SOME in this forum think their niche is the Holy Grail and you're only fast if you're in hardboots. I've stopped counting the notches i've put on MY board.

Incidently, ONE of the reasons I am here is because ODDLY enough I DO own hardboots of a sort...Scarpa Denaili XT Alpine Touring boots, these ones DO have the heat-moldable liners, and have been itching to try them out on a board...IF I can find a decent pair of bindings for them that aren't megabucks. My Black Diamond Fritsche Freeride randonnee bindings certainly wouldn't fit. ha ha. I would like a binding for them that I can switch back and forth between 15/5 AND say 55/55 or so....and then also put them on the used split-board i plan to get for skinning.

Gravity is Life.

[Arclite]

or do you get the feeling that Fin is drinking a beer and watching this thread and laughing his a$$ off at all the ridiculous comments everyone has to say?

If I can do the same layed-out toeside you see in my signature just as well and as easy in softboots as hardboots, doesn't that say something?

my ratio = 75/25 - hard/soft

I even like doing the boardercross run we have down here at summit

I just started freestyle skateboarding (I've been longboarding over summer)

Variety, is the spice of life.

Deal with it.

just my two cents.

[Guest]

Carvingchef: I don't think you'll piss ppl off by saying that, and if you do...then that is there own fault. What you say is most definitely a propo and germane to the discusssion. I have no doubt what you say about the forum during the is right. There is, apparently, a small contingent here that is the "hardboot police"...although I consider them the "Hardboot Taliban"...as they seem that there is only THEIR way or no way....oh wait...that's the Norwegians...

I would presume that if I pose questions in their holy hardboot thread such as "What is the best hardboot for shopping at Whole Foods M"arket?" or... "What is the best color hardboot to wear while meeting with the Pope at the Vatican?"...or "What angle should I keep my hardboot at while racing my Pinto?"...or more importantly: "What color should I paint the pedestal that I keep my hardboots on?...gold or chartruesse?"....that these questions would be perfectly fine...as they are hardboot questions.

These Hardboot Taliban are an odd lot...one seems to depise all other forms of snowboard gear so much that he forbids his two youing kids to learn snowboarding (as there is no Alpine equipment for small kids yet), so he has them on skis INSTEAD of snowboards. Little kids are GREAT at learning snowboarding...it's a natural thing for them, Another just prefers to cover his ears and puts EVERYBODY he has a slight disagreement with on his "ignore" list. Another has a tendancy to go back and count people's posts so that he can see who has been naughty and who has been nice...(Santa's Workshop would be a good place for him...he can be Santa's list-keeper); this same elf believes that people should lurk for a year or three before they peep a word. Another one (think of Frosty) is just plain so pugillistic and pugnacious that he probably has dreams at night about hitting some softbooter in the back of the knees with his freecarve board while they're not expecting it. That's the Taliban at work.

Yeah, I ride softboots...because while I spend most of every run either carving or high speed flatboarding, I still like to throw a decent method off some mid-slope kicker and land fakie and transition that fakie to smooth carve. There is no way I can set boots on a narrow carve board at 15 and 5 without hella toe-drag and there is no way I'm going to safely land a backside shifty stalefish with hardboots at 55/55. Maybe Jeremy Jones can and continue some sweet race carves directly after, but not me. So I adjust my 2-strappers and my stiff boots (I have a temporary plastic molded forward boot-tongue form that I use and skate lace keys for tightening for carve) to an aggressive carve stance if I want to carve ALL day, but mostly I stay at 15/5 so I can do both. I almost NEVER duck-foot. I have three places marked with a sharpie on my discs, keep my nut-driver with me, and OFTEN change my stance as needed through-out the day. I have 3 places marked on my discs, because I love AND have the ability to do 3 different types of boarding...carve, all-mountain and park/pipe. I have outshredded tons of hardbooters who thought they could outpace me on the mountain... they always look at my equipment after I blew them off with a WTF-look on their faces. It's truly hilarious. There are alot on here who think that softbooters are slow and ungraceful and can't do a true carve at speed. Well...I'll be at Wintergreen, VA this mid-week wearing a grey/black parka dark green hat and either red, yellow or black pants ('pending on temp) and a big black FatBob to prove them wrong if they can keep up. While they're "hugging the mountain"...I'll be already down at the bottom.If there is an old english vintage Land-Rover with a rack in the lot. that'll be me. I only say that because SOME in this forum think their niche is the Holy Grail and you're only fast if you're in hardboots. I've stopped counting the notches i've put on MY board.

Incidently, ONE of the reasons I am here is because ODDLY enough I DO own hardboots of a sort...Scarpa Denaili XT Alpine Touring boots, these ones DO have the heat-moldable liners, and have been itching to try them out on a board...IF I can find a decent pair of bindings for them that aren't megabucks. My Black Diamond Fritsche Freeride randonnee bindings certainly wouldn't fit. ha ha. I would like a binding for them that I can switch back and forth between 15/5 AND say 55/55 or so....and then also put them on the used split-board i plan to get for skinning.

Gravity is Life.

Wow.

Wow.... I want to refute so many claims, statements and other bullshlt in this post, but I don't really feel like putting forth the effort, as it will serve no purpose.

You are one of the relative newcomers to this board who thinks he's the shlt and wants to stir up the pot a bit. You don't argue that well, don't accept opinions other than your own, and you have to throw germane and apropos randomly into one sentence of your post (which you misspelled).

We are a forum of hardbooters. Yes, there are softbooters among us. We come here for the hardboot/carving-centric discussions. If you're riding softies, good for you. But, surprisingly enough, preaching the softie carving gospel (no offense to any others who ride softies) to a bunch of us who have been coming here for years, insulting those who eurocarve,, and blowing smoke up your own ass might rub some of us the wrong way. Who would have thought?

[carvingchef]

alaskan rover if you quote me you should not cut and paste somewhere else, in any case if you agree on "can we please stop the insanity?" and you post something like this i think you missed the point of my post

Carvingchef: I don't think you'll piss ppl off by saying that, and if you do...then that is there own fault. What you say is most definitely a propo and germane to the discusssion. I have no doubt what you say about the forum during the is right. There is, apparently, a small contingent here that is the "hardboot police"...although I consider them the "Hardboot Taliban"...as they seem that there is only THEIR way or no way....oh wait...that's the Norwegians...

I would presume that if I pose questions in their holy hardboot thread such as "What is the best hardboot for shopping at Whole Foods M"arket?" or... "What is the best color hardboot to wear while meeting with the Pope at the Vatican?"...or "What angle should I keep my hardboot at while racing my Pinto?"...or more importantly: "What color should I paint the pedestal that I keep my hardboots on?...gold or chartruesse?"....that these questions would be perfectly fine...as they are hardboot questions.

These Hardboot Taliban are an odd lot...one seems to depise all other forms of snowboard gear so much that he forbids his two youing kids to learn snowboarding (as there is no Alpine equipment for small kids yet), so he has them on skis INSTEAD of snowboards. Little kids are GREAT at learning snowboarding...it's a natural thing for them, Another just prefers to cover his ears and puts EVERYBODY he has a slight disagreement with on his "ignore" list. Another has a tendancy to go back and count people's posts so that he can see who has been naughty and who has been nice...(Santa's Workshop would be a good place for him...he can be Santa's list-keeper); this same elf believes that people should lurk for a year or three before they peep a word. Another one (think of Frosty) is just plain so pugillistic and pugnacious that he probably has dreams at night about hitting some softbooter in the back of the knees with his freecarve board while they're not expecting it. That's the Taliban at work.

when i say "can we please stop the insanity?" i'm referring to this kind of replies, regardless from which side they come from or are directed to, if you think i'm going to like you after writing that you are wrong, and if it was a hardbooter who wrote the same thing about a softbooter i would feel the same way, that's the kind of post that needs to stop from both sides, what do you think it's going to happen now, someone will read that and they will fell the urge to get back at you, then you'll want to get back at them and so on and on and on, when does it end?

this is for everybody

STOP PUTTING FUEL ON THE FIRE IF YOU WANT THE FIRE TO STOP BURNING

[Steve Prokopiw]

Wow.

Wow.... I want to refute so many claims, statements and other bullshlt in this post, but I don't really feel like putting forth the effort, as it will serve no purpose.

You are one of the relative newcomers to this board who thinks he's the shlt and wants to stir up the pot a bit. You don't argue that well, don't accept opinions other than your own, and you have to throw germane and apropos randomly into one sentence of your post (which you misspelled).

We are a forum of hardbooters. Yes, there are softbooters among us. We come here for the hardboot/carving-centric discussions. If you're riding softies, good for you. But, surprisingly enough, preaching the softie carving gospel (no offense to any others who ride softies) to a bunch of us who have been coming here for years, insulting those who eurocarve,, and blowing smoke up your own ass might rub some of us the wrong way. Who would have thought?

The Taliban references are especially ironic.

[Dan]

I generally don't waste my time with online pissing matches, but give me a break!

one seems to depise all other forms of snowboard gear so much that he forbids his two youing kids to learn snowboarding (as there is no Alpine equipment for small kids yet), so he has them on skis INSTEAD of snowboards. Little kids are GREAT at learning snowboarding...it's a natural thing for them,

Can you see how ridiculous you sound? A lot of very experienced people (at both boarding and teaching kids) have said that kids (who grow up walking, using two legs independently, not surfing as you appear to believe) have an easier time picking up skiing before snowboarding. If you have facts to the contrary, great! A statement to that effect would suffice; no need to make it a crusade.

I have outshredded tons of hardbooters who thought they could outpace me on the mountain...While they're "hugging the mountain"...I'll be already down at the bottom.

If straightlining were all that challenging, it would be in the Olympics, instead of all those events with gates.

I have nothing against softbooting. I broke out my softboots for a few hiking days this winter and had a pretty good time on them, but jesus creeping christ, enough with the trash-talking and the persecution complex.

[photodad2001]

Yeah, photodad2001 called me a.... a... SKIER! I'm so offended.

;)

:lol::lol::lol:

[tufty]

Tufty, you are way off in your interpretation of what is being argued in this thread. Most every carver I know has full respect for other carvers on any type of snow sliding equipment.

I suspect the majority do, yes. However, for at least 3 pages of this thread, anyone daring to mention that sofbooters might be able to carve got shouted down and pretty much told to "**** off to one of the knuckle-dragger sites". On rereading, they were mainly being shouted down by one poster.

...going offtopic, a little, although this thread is symptomatic...

That said, I do feel there's a highly elitist gearhead attitude here, and one that probably doesn't do much to get new recruits - as soon as anyone disagrees with the accepted truth, they will get shouted down by one or more of the "usual suspects". "Softboots are crap". "Glass boards are crap". "Less expensive bindings are crap". "Older boots are crap". "Boots without BTS are crap". "If you're not spending more than $1000 on a board, you're crap". Etc etc. It's easy to chat to people on the slopes, get sofbooters over to (or back over to) the "dark side", but as soon as they start asking where to go for more information, it starts getting tricky. Admittedly, a lot of the people I meet are francophone, so this site is pretty much out due to language issues, but my list of sites to point people to are, in this order:

alpinecarving.com (decent gear overviews)

ebay.de (hardbooting gear on the relatively cheap)

extremecarving.com (friendly forums with decent tech advice in English, French, Italian, German, Russian and Korean)

99% of the time I deliberately won't send people here, although I will point them to Bomber if they are determined to spend a lot of money on bindings. It's not a language thing, it's a "likelihood of having people fart in your face by way of an introduction" thing.

It's a shame. There's so much good information here.

[Alaskan Rover]

I agree...that was a fairly self-serving, testosterone-derived, pugnacious post that I myself made, but when I go through various back-posts and see what collective tongue-lashings that SOME hard-booters give to anyone that happens to ride soft-boots...giving impressions that hardboots are somehow the final and holy evolution of snowboarding and everyting softboot is simply 'knuckledragging', it just gets me going, is all. So when a softbooter says something that maybe is construed to them as a little insulting, THAT is a capital sin...but when hardbooters collectively insult fellow carvers and riders simply for the boots/bindings they choose, That is okay?? It seems that skiers and snowboarders get along better than hardbooters and softbooters. Why is that? The climbing forums are just the same, except they are even more pugillistic and more gear-bashing in those forums than anywhere. So if I offended any people that didn't deserve to be offended, I am sorry. That post was mostly addressed to a certain very few.

[DiveBomber]

while i hate soft boots, themselves, and voted NO, lets have one anyway, this way all the softboot propaganda can be spouted there, and we can easily ignore it!

and softbooters who frequent that forum can peak over from time to time and learn about real snowboarding.

[photodad2001]

I suspect the majority do, yes. However, for at least 3 pages of this thread, anyone daring to mention that sofbooters might be able to carve got shouted down and pretty much told to "**** off to one of the knuckle-dragger sites". On rereading, they were mainly being shouted down by one poster.

...going offtopic, a little, although this thread is symptomatic...

That said, I do feel there's a highly elitist gearhead attitude here, and one that probably doesn't do much to get new recruits - as soon as anyone disagrees with the accepted truth, they will get shouted down by one or more of the "usual suspects". "Softboots are crap". "Glass boards are crap". "Less expensive bindings are crap". "Older boots are crap". "Boots without BTS are crap". "If you're not spending more than $1000 on a board, you're crap". Etc etc. It's easy to chat to people on the slopes, get sofbooters over to (or back over to) the "dark side", but as soon as they start asking where to go for more information, it starts getting tricky. Admittedly, a lot of the people I meet are francophone, so this site is pretty much out due to language issues, but my list of sites to point people to are, in this order:

alpinecarving.com (decent gear overviews)

ebay.de (hardbooting gear on the relatively cheap)

extremecarving.com (friendly forums with decent tech advice in English, French, Italian, German, Russian and Korean)

99% of the time I deliberately won't send people here, although I will point them to Bomber if they are determined to spend a lot of money on bindings. It's not a language thing, it's a "likelihood of having people fart in your face by way of an introduction" thing.

It's a shame. There's so much good information here.

Careful there. They are going to think I've gone and created another user ID.

[pegtal]

Almost every "alpine" board manufacturer has at least one softboot board in the range.

Kessler, Oxess, SG, Donek, Prior, etc… Where is it possible to see and hear about those softboot boards ?

Here.

I'd like to know the sales ratio between harboot boards and softboot boards from those builders and how they see the futur of their activity.

Spreading the knowledge here (and everywhere else) about harbooting and softbooting carving gear would probably lead to nice consequences for manufacturers and consumers.

See the Swoard community for exemple.

Hardboot snowboarding nearly died during the last century…

[leeho730]

Almost every "alpine" board manufacturer has at least one softboot board in the range.

Kessler, Oxess, SG, Donek, Prior, etc… Where is it possible to see and hear about those softboot boards ?

Here.

I'd like to know the sales ratio between harboot boards and softboot boards from those builders and how they see the futur of their activity.

Spreading the knowledge here (and everywhere else) about harbooting and softbooting carving gear would probably lead to nice consequences for manufacturers and consumers.

See the Swoard community for exemple.

Hardboot snowboarding nearly died during the last century…

Actually, Swoard community focuses primarily on hardbooting. Jacques and Patrice, they both say that hardbooting is superior for extremecarving, period (and I agree, too and that's why I primarily carve on plates). What I believe they try to do is to slowly win back the hardboot crowd by building a hybrid board such as Dual to make the transition from softbooting to hardbooting more smooth.

So, if any of you softboot crowd do not feel comfortable here, come and join us at extremecarving website! Although we focus on hardboot extremecarving (simply look at our movies and pictures, they're dominated with hardbooters), we welcome any softboot riders and we've even got Dual for your carving needs! No more "this is hardboot forum" scrutiny ;)

And should you wish to try hardbooting, you simply need to buy hardboots and plate bindings and use them with Dual.

... End of advertisement

Yeah, I recon Swoard community's approach is better because it's slyer. They WANT you to ride hardboots, but they want to do it more subtly, and if you still want to carve in softboot, it's cool, we're still brothers :)

[Jack M]

Wow.

I saw how long it was and skipped it, so I'll take your word for it, Jim.

Fin, let's make a decision and end this.

[Jack M]

... is a "Technique" forum.

Carving Community or Racing/Coaching forum. That's where it's been since day 1.

Otherwise, it's a gear discussion.

Carving Community or Racing/Coaching forum.

I will put my NoBoard stuff in the new "Fish" forum

Softboot forum.

[two_ravens]

This has been the single most disappointing 'discussion' I've read on BOL to date. Though my natural tendency is toward inclusiveness, I voted yes - a separate section might dial down the hate volume a bit :( and give the softbooters a relatively friendly corner of the sandbox to play in. Hope Fin deletes this thread when a decision has been made.

[lonbordin]

This has been the single most disappointing 'discussion' I've read on BOL to date. [snip] Hope Fin deletes this thread when a decision has been made.

Completely agree with two_ravens.

I wonder what will happen when the soft boot forums going along and someone pops in with the "but hard boots carve better". Where will "we" be then?