lonbordin Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 VIST DUO- http://carver.si/snowboard_plate_systems/vist_plate_systems/vist_snowplate_duo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 Sorry to say i'm not buying into the theory of some of these. I believe the best devices you can put on you board allows the board to do what it's designed to do not impede or impose on it's characteristics. Maybe they make up for the fact a board is too soft under foot for a given rider. Which is another way of saying it's not the right board for you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 8 hours ago, lowrider said: Sorry to say i'm not buying into the theory of some of these. I believe the best devices you can put on you board allows the board to do what it's designed to do not impede or impose on it's characteristics. Maybe they make up for the fact a board is too soft under foot for a given rider. Which is another way of saying it's not the right board for you. Agreed. Like you say, I believe they can compensate for a board that is softer under foot and thus prevent or reduce the tendency for the board to fold right at the edge of the binding. I don't think that happens on a properly built race board, but it could be beneficial for a freecarve board. It would be one thing if the pads on the Vists or Geckos were soft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 Gecko's orange pads are soft. No info of Vist ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 hour ago, pokkis said: Gecko's orange pads are soft. No info of Vist ones. Right, but that's not their recommended setup for alpine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guido591 Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, lowrider said: Sorry to say i'm not buying into the theory of some of these. I believe the best devices you can put on you board allows the board to do what it's designed to do not impede or impose on it's characteristics. Maybe they make up for the fact a board is too soft under foot for a given rider. Which is another way of saying it's not the right board for you. Fair enough, but given that you have likely never seen or ridden with the Duo (I probably own the only set in North America), I find it hard to imagine that you can make a legitimate assessment of its characteristics. This isn’t a product made in someone’s basement. It has been designed, tested and produced by Vist who are a major player in the ski/snowboard plate market. For what it’s worth, I use the Duo on a custom built board so questions regarding compensation for improper board selection (too soft) are moot. Edited February 12, 2018 by guido591 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 2 hours ago, Jack Michaud said: Right, but that's not their recommended setup for alpine. I've been on orange ones 95% of time, for me they work better than red ones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 3 hours ago, guido591 said: Fair enough, but given that you have likely never seen or ridden with the Duo (I probably own the only set in North America), I find it hard to imagine that you can make a legitimate assessment of its characteristics. Thank you for the info @guido591! Is the base materials of the VIST Duo the same across the peices(It looks like there are three peices?). Is it elastic? Rubbery? Firm? Thanks again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, guido591 said: Fair enough, but given that you have likely never seen or ridden with the Duo (I probably own the only set in North America), I find it hard to imagine that you can make a legitimate assessment of its characteristics. This isn’t a product made in someone’s basement. It has been designed, tested and produced by Vist who are a major player in the ski/snowboard plate market. For what it’s worth, I use the Duo on a custom built board so questions regarding compensation for improper board selection (too soft) are moot. Why would a board builder build you a custom board that was deficient and needed such a device ? Jack you chimed in and stole my thunder as i was writing this. Edited February 12, 2018 by lowrider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 4 hours ago, guido591 said: Fair enough, but given that you have likely never seen or ridden with the Duo (I probably own the only set in North America), I find it hard to imagine that you can make a legitimate assessment of its characteristics Of course without riding it one cannot know exactly how it rides, but one can plainly see that it is not going to fully decouple the rider from the board and allow the board to flex freely, the way that a true "isocline" plate does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) I'm pretty current on what's going on with some north american made boards so my question to you would be was you board constructed specifically for the duo's. And if so why would a board builder specifically build a board that they knew would require them ? It's not like they provide the types of characteristics that a full isolation plate does. Which is specifically designed to allow a board to perform without modifying the characteristics of your board. I'm of the opinion lately that many are buying into these devices thinking they solve problems that a proper board or using the proper board under the conditions it was designed for is what one should strive to do. On the other hand as a riser to prevent boot out they would perform well. I will add this " Figuring out not to interfere with what a board will do easily is perhaps the greatest part of proficiency. " Beckman. Edited February 12, 2018 by lowrider 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 ^Omitting words and punctuation kinda affects meaning. "Figuring out how not to interfere with what a board will do easily, is perhaps the greater part of proficiency." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, Beckmann AG said: ^Omitting words and punctuation kinda affects meaning. "Figuring out how not to interfere with what a board will do easily, is perhaps the greater part of proficiency." Sorry that's the Trump in me generating false news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guido591 Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Jack Michaud said: Agreed. Like you say, I believe they can compensate for a board that is softer under foot and thus prevent or reduce the tendency for the board to fold right at the edge of the binding. I don't think that happens on a properly built race board, but it could be beneficial for a freecarve board. It would be one thing if the pads on the Vists or Geckos were soft. I posted the photos of the Vist Duo because it is new and unlikely to be encountered on this continent. I find it useful for free carving and believe it to be preferable to other options I’ve tried. Those of you who, on inspection of the photos alone, find it deficient are free to use products that you find helpful. Thanks for the feedback. Edited February 12, 2018 by guido591 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted February 13, 2018 Report Share Posted February 13, 2018 6 hours ago, lowrider said: Sorry that's the Trump in me generating false news. That's some nasty affliction. Best case you're looking at full-on marrow transplant. Worst case, exorcism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted February 13, 2018 Report Share Posted February 13, 2018 6 hours ago, guido591 said: I posted the photos of the Vist Duo because it is new and unlikely to be encountered on this continent. I find it useful for free carving and believe it to be preferable to other options I’ve tried. Those of you who, on inspection of the photos alone, find it deficient are free to use products that you find helpful. Thanks for the feedback. Thanks for sharing the photos, I wasn't aware of this new product. Like I said, could be beneficial for a freecarve board. Can you elaborate on what you feel the plates doing for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted February 13, 2018 Report Share Posted February 13, 2018 On 2/9/2018 at 8:12 PM, pokkis said: My stuff is now packed due flying back home tomorrow. Will shoot pics next week when home. Basically it uses Allflex insert setup with some extra ones. Added some extra ones to inside of Allflexones. In reality i later changed my plans so i use extra centerones only to screw stompad when riding without plate. Here pic of stuff under plate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) I've ended up with copies of the Jasey Jay Anderson board & plate setup instructions. They make intriguing reading, for a number of reasons. (JJA's preferred stance for a start, and he's 177cm tall) Some might argue with his analysis of what happens when you adjust plate mounting points, others might debate what "stiffness" means (in terms of snowboards, you've got filthy minds!). Personally, if you take a child's ruler, hold one end down on a firm surface, and bend and release the other end the fact that it makes a different sound when the protruding length is shorter is not because the ruler has become more stiff. If anyone has photos of the underside of a JJA plate, or any evidence that the mechanism limits the amount to which a board can flex underneath it I'd be interested to see it. Board-Setup.pdf Interface-Guidelines..pdf Edited February 18, 2018 by SunSurfer typo, I only ever see them after I push Save. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger jr Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 On 2/13/2018 at 12:44 AM, pokkis said: Here pic of stuff under plate Thanks Pokkis so is your plate sitting on some bumpers? Does one end slide at all? Can’t tell from the pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) Both ends slide, fixed only on center bumpers. EDIT Here pic of bushings i use at ends, just machined them to lower Edited February 18, 2018 by pokkis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 6 hours ago, SunSurfer said: If anyone has photos of the underside of a JJA plate, or any evidence that the mechanism limits the amount to which a board can flex underneath it I'd be interested to see it. I believe they are basic axles/pivots like Bomber/Apex. But, the JJA plate allows for the different sides to be offset from one another so they're not axial. That means that in order to pivot, the plate and/or board must twist and flex in order to accommodate the hinges being misaligned. Ever encounter a door hung with misaligned hinges? It changes resistance as it opens. It also puts huge stresses on the door frame and the door, which make me slightly concerned. But then again we bend the heck out of our boards anyway so it likely doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 16 hours ago, SunSurfer said: I've ended up with copies of the Jasey Jay Anderson board & plate setup instructions. They make intriguing reading, for a number of reasons. <Snip> Board-Setup.pdf Interface-Guidelines..pdf Great post @SunSurfer, thanks. I'm wondering how current this is... From the recent videos it looks like he has a little more toe lift than he recommends... Probably to offset the ramp of the UPZs. We'd be neglect to recognize his thoughts on plates... He's likely spent more time on a plate than any of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 The person who supplied me with the pdfs had bought the plate recently and had talked to JJA about their setup. The pdfs may well be from when the plate first came out, at which time I think JJA was riding Deeluxe boots. I appreciate that Jasey has far more experience riding both the Apex plate and then his own design than probably anyone on the BOL Forum. I think his comments are intriguing because they don't match my own understanding about how a sliding axle isolation plate affects the movement/flexing of the board beneath it. I think that the use of offset axles throws a whole lot of unpredictability and axle wear into the equation and is counter-productive. JJA is clearly of a different view. Make up your own mind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 Offset axles helps to position your inputs directly to the board under toe and heel less diving board effect (asymmetrical ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 ^ no diving board effect if you make sure the axles are outside where you put your weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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