RCrobar Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 Hi Fin What stops the main ‘threaded rod’ from unwanted movement/rotating when it experiences vibrations? Fin, you mentioned that you were having a hard time finding springs that were happy with. You also explained that the springs you wanted were expensive. The springs in the picture look like a standard inexpensive flat wire spring. Could you give the community an explanation as to why you selected the springs that you did, bit of a Springs 101 for dummies? Thanks Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skategoat Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 Pending release of the Bomber RAB, is there anything one could do with the standard Indy spring mechanism to make it more effective? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted September 27, 2005 Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 Pending release of the Bomber RAB, is there anything one could do with the standard Indy spring mechanism to make it more effective? yes, do some cutting and so on to reduce the chances of it jamming, for help with this get in contact with shaggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdboytyler Posted September 27, 2005 Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 Pending release of the Bomber RAB, is there anything one could do with the standard Indy spring mechanism to make it more effective? The easy mod is to remove the brass tube and lube the bolt with some cold weather grease. That's the mod I did and I haven't had any problems with the RAB getting jammed. However, with this method, you lose your forward lean adjustment. I also installed a lighter spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fin Posted September 27, 2005 Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 Bobdea: correct, most of the current spring systems out there have the best intensions but fall short (IMHO) when it comes to actually working well. At one point I have a sample of every spring system currently available and found that almost all of them where grossly short on capacity. The biggest issue I found with most of them is the springs where WAY too short for the amount of travel they where expected to compress. Lets say a boot has the ability to flex forward (toe side) up to 45 degrees, these other spring systems had there springs go to solid height (fully compressed) at around 30 degrees! Imagine your car not having enough travel on the suspension, you hit a bump, it travels so far then bottoms out on the frame. Not a very linear progression on the spring. So overall travel capacity is not addressed well with these systems. One by-product of this lack of travel is now you are compressing the spring to its solid height (the height where it is completely compressed). You are NOT supposed to have a spring application where it goes to solid. The spring then takes a set (set = spring free length gets shorter) and now its spring rate goes down (spring rate = amount of force it give per distance of compression). A general rule on springs is about 30% (max) compression of its total free length. So if you need around 1" of travel (or compression of the spring) you want a spring about 3" (minimum) long. And this happens to be exactly the lengths we calculated for our system and why we have a 3" spring on the forward flex and a 1.5" on the rearward flex. Astrokel: I would not suggest "stacking" different rate springs. All you end up doing is compression the weaker spring to its solid height first and then maybe the stiffer one kicks in (depends on the spread of the rates). The better way to get a progressive rate is to have a spring custom wound where it uses the same wire but varies the coil spacing. Or two springs (say one inside of the other) where one is shorter then the other and kicks in partway in the compression. But do you need this exotic progressive flex. I am going to say probably not. Don't forget the shell of the boot is still part of the equation and that is adding a lot of progressive flex as it is. And to be honest, we are trying to remove that part of the equation with this system and give a more linear and controlled flex. Tommy D: "What are the advantages of those, versus the 'locking' adjustable lean built into my 423's?" Good question. When you lock a boot out (like the stock 5 position system) you are now relying on the plastic of the boot (cuff, tongue, etc) to act as your spring resistance. As mentioned above this is not very linear and is highly effected by temperature. Cold day your boots are bricks, warm day they are noodles. A spring based system give you control over the feel of the boot and consistency as springs really do not change rate versus temperature. Randy: Sorry just Raichle/Deeluxe at this point. Length issue: keep in mind, the current photo shows the test model. The final version will be at least 1/2" shorter and will lay more flat against the boot. However, it looks worse then it is. On the current version I purposely tried to "poke" myself with the end of the system. You pretty much have to be a 9 year old Asian girl who's family have been contortionists for the past 200 years to make contact with the system. So, the final version is shorter and lower and it should not be an issue. Astrokel: yea, I would like to make the top a little cleaner (great idea with the inverted nut) but we'll probably have to leave that for the next generation due to cost issues. But that does give me a reason to buy bitch'n CNC lathe (like I need a reason)! Jeffery Day: This system is for everyone, all weights, and all abilities. This is actually one of the main reasons for this system. If you happen to be very light you can run the soft springs and back off the pre-load and get a boot that flexes to match your weight. Adjustability is the core of this system. RCrobar: the main shaft is threaded into the lower block with some "red" (non-serviceable) thread lock. Have not had one back out yet. Finding springs was not the issue but cost was. Actually Flat form springs are not "normal" and are more expensive then round wire. The springs we are using are called "Die Springs" and are very strong and made with high-quality materials. If we wanted to use a cheaper round wire spring I needed a spring that was about 5" long! With these die version we can get it down to 3". But we also have to have them coated for corrosion protection. Combined with the fact we need at least 4 for an entire system it gets costly fast. OK, so who wants to see a full active, computer controlled, electronically dampened, and voice activated spring system for their boots? :rolleyes: Best part is then Bordy would tell us that hard boots are not necessary and steel edges are for sissies :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrokel Posted September 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 Hey if F-1 cars have explored the active suspension territory then why not us? :rolleyes: You'll need to develop a "black box" for the chip, with a chip for every run and snow condition... or even better make it like a Power Commander and carry your laptop in a backpack with you when on the hill... Let's GO CRAZY!!! Oh Fin... I wasn't really concerned about self-impaling, the concern was if somehow one got into a tangle with someone on the hill (it never happens anyway right ;) ?) and the thing somehow got caught or into a position you didn't anticipate. Just something you might think about in this litigious environment (not that you need to be reminded)... :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted September 27, 2005 Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 Fin... So true! Steel edges are for Ninnes. GO Ceramic or Stainless or GO home. Man I wish I built stuff! Hardboots make me happy.... Fin sat right next to me with a sharpie and a smile he rubbed sharpie all over the test springs housing and said to me. o-kay see if you can drag the housing and wear off the marker on the heel side. I could not. I tried to impail my self as well Per Fins request( he is always tring to hurt me)......no dice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted September 27, 2005 Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 gettin pretty excited over here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skategoat Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Start shipping them already. I'll sign a waiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Start shipping them already. I'll sign a waiver. :lol: Me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snovvman Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 Me three! NDA, waiver, whatever! We can be beta testers at our own risk. Sign me up!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 will test Bomber RAB system at his own risk this season on his backcountry gear and provide requested feedback as per instructed. Will sign on the dotted line in triplicate, or deny any contact whatsoever, as per pending instructions. Has been known to keep a secret much longer than necessary. What secret. Will wait for brown paper covered box with no return address to show up at an undisclosed location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrokel Posted October 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 FYI: a link to a great collection of a bunch of homemade RAB modifications... RAB pictures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrCR Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Sweet action, glad bomber is looking to sell something like this. It's hard to convince my friends to go HB after they find out I had to mod my boots. Will be really nice to have a turnkey solution. I've got my boot modded like carver.cc's setup but would like like to try these out. ^nice link astrokel. Saw that site a while back but lost it, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 Start shipping them already. I'll sign a waiver. Ok, me four :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Morales Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 If you sell rab parts seperately would you still have a liabilty problem. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fin Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 Selling anything is a liablity....:( However, hope to have all this resolved soon and then we can launch the wave of new products we have ready to go Hang tight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 As soon as you're ready, I'll buy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Any news yet about schedule ? I need to order some other small parts :D and would like to order set these too in same shipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fin Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 Pokkis, Right now hope to have the BTS read for ship before the end of December but may be as late as January. Will be announced on the site when ready. Sorry for the delay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daneille Posted November 26, 2005 Report Share Posted November 26, 2005 Does that mean the BTS in the Bomber store is a pre order? Daneille Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Posted November 26, 2005 Report Share Posted November 26, 2005 Hi! the link to also order additionnal springs does not seem to work ? what is the price ?;) When is it available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_x Posted November 26, 2005 Report Share Posted November 26, 2005 What does RAB stand for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derf Posted November 26, 2005 Report Share Posted November 26, 2005 What does RAB stand for? It stands for Raichle Accelerator Box if I am not mistaken. It is the spring mechanism found on the back of the Deeluxe Indy and the Raichle AF700. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_x Posted November 26, 2005 Report Share Posted November 26, 2005 Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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