Deeluxe Boot Fit (Foot Pain)

[Workmans]

I recently transitioned from sofbooting to hardbooting and it's been incredible, but I have had some on and off pain with my back foot (left foot - I ride goofy)

Im using Deeluxe Track 325s. I measured my foot and checked the space with just foot in the shell and the boots seem to be the correct size.

Usually my feet are fine for the first half of the day, but once I reach the 2-3 hour mark I start having pain on the inside near my heel as well as the heel itself. (See attached pic)

I had my liners heat molded and they feel fine but after carving for several hours the pain shows up.

It feels like a pressure point just below my inner ankle, and numbness in my heel.

I also experience a bit of heel lift, which can be reduced by tightening the boot but that seems to cause the pressure point to hurt more. 

I'm able to tighten all the buckles to the last notch and the top cuff buckle ends up being loose.

I was thinking of ordering shorter cuff cables to allow me to get the boot tighter potentially reducing heel lift, however I am nervous that the pressure point might feel worse. Would it be worth getting a fit set (foam pieces that can stick to inside of boot shell) to smooth out the pressure point? What about trying to re-mold the liners in the oven?

It hasn't really stopped me from riding, but it's definitely annoying. There is a professional boot fitter I could go see but it would be a 2.5 hour drive each way, so I'm hoping to find a way to solve it on my own. 

Has anyone else experienced something similar? 

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Workmans

[Mr.E]

I had similar. Something in those shells is different than the old Austrian made 325's.

I wasnt able to solve it for my feet (even with professional help) and moved to UPZ then MS, but some things to think about:

1. Tightening the boot and crushing the foot is likely to exacerbate the issue.

2. If you dont already have a supportive foot bed then I'd recommend customs or at the least something like superfeet.

3. You might experiment with some L or J foam pads to help hold the heel down without having to crush the foot down via buckle pressure.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Mr.E

[rst]

regarding heel lift

I used https://depot.ciqdev.com/DataApps/branches/pricing_latest/ to remove extra volume

+

https://www.tognar.com/ski-and-snowboard-boot-fitting-heel-lifts-pr/ for rear foot

 

maybe you don't need first ones and heel lift will help you

 

PS

I moved from deeluxe eventually since they are too wide for me

[barryj]

I felt the Deeluxe liners in my boots allowed pressure points so I changed to Intuition Pro Wrap and that made a huge difference in comfort........... and a noticeable difference in performance. 

[Jonny]

Intuition liners are a good call - I use Dreamliner LV - and once you have them a trip to the bootfitter will probably be a good investment. Your want the fitter to work with the whole system so getting the liners first is wise.

One other thing you can try is a little more forward and/or inward canting of your rear binding. If your angles are high - like 60° - then heel lift might do the trick all by itself, but if you're running lower angles then a little lift on the outside of your back foot might take some of the pressure off the inside of the ankle.

There's a small performance penalty for inward canting - it puts your knees pretty close together at the bottom of the turn -  but it's pretty small. We all rode like that for decades and it still works.

Remember too that hardbooting is a MUCH more demanding sport than freeriding in soft boots. If you're getting 3 hours before the pain shuts you down that's pretty darn good!

[pmorita]

Ditto on Intuition Prowrap lines.  Use these in my UPZs and it makes all the difference. 

Also, does anyone take a lunch break anymore?  Three hours followed by $16 chicken fingers and fries (Epic!) with your feet out of the boots sounds like a nice break.  Followed by a few more hours of regret.

[carvedog]

58 minutes ago, pmorita said:

Also, does anyone take a lunch break anymore? 

I really never do lunch. Can't carve hard after filling my belly with much more than some fruit. 

[David Kirk]

Typically pain in that part of the foot is due to the ankle rolling inward slightly and making pressure on the side of the foot. There’s a few things that would probably help out - 

 

 - custom foot bed -  A quality pair of custom foot beds will put your foot in a neutral position and keep the ankle from rolling inward. The pain should go away and you get the bonus of having better alignment and being able to put power to the board better.

 - high volume custom liners - Given that you are running out of adjustment room with the buckles I suspect that you have a low volume foot and/or a thin liner. If your foot is low volume you need a thicker liner to take up the space between your foot and the shell. The thin liner will not support the foot well enough in a high volume shell like the Deeluxe and when you crank the buckles down hoping to hold the heel in place the foot collapses to the inside causing your pain. Many don’t know that moldable liners come in different thicknesses or volumes to deal with this….and a molded liner that started off too thin won’t get any thicker.

 - high volume custom liner II - boot shells are designed to flex properly when they are using about 1/2 of the buckle travel range. If the foot and liner are too small in volume for the shell it will start to distort and collapse and it won’t flex as designed. It can lose it’s natural feeling motion and progressive flex. The rider might feel high pressure at the top of the tongue because the cuff is no longer a cylinder as designed and it becomes cone shaped. If you put on your boots and buckle them how they are when you ride and then look at them from the side you’ll probably see that the tongue and rear part of the cuff aren’t parallel but instead get closer toward the top…..in effect making a cone shape. This is not good and you are missing a lot of performance and comfort from the boot. If you're like me and your feet are low volume and your calves are skinny the Deeluxe shell will be distorted and unhappy. Put a high volume liner in (along with the proper footbeds) and you’ll be much happier.

 

 

I’ll bet if you go to a good pro boot fitter and have them look your boots and feet that you’ll hear something similar to the above. A normal mom & pop shop that just molds liners and calls that ‘custom boot fitting’ isn’t enough. Look for a real boot fitting shop that specializes in this and you’ll rider longer and better and smile much more. 

 

Dave

[Jack M]

I'll just add - mold your liners before applying Tognar pads, and not after.  Otherwise, the liner will mold around them, rendering them ineffective.

Good luck!

[rst]

8 hours ago, pmorita said:

 

Also, does anyone take a lunch break anymore?

Not even breakfast before riding

[Charlie2021]

On 2/28/2022 at 4:34 PM, Workmans said:

I recently transitioned from sofbooting to hardbooting and it's been incredible, but I have had some on and off pain with my back foot (left foot - I ride goofy)

Im using Deeluxe Track 325s. I measured my foot and checked the space with just foot in the shell and the boots seem to be the correct size.

Usually my feet are fine for the first half of the day, but once I reach the 2-3 hour mark I start having pain on the inside near my heel as well as the heel itself. (See attached pic)

I had my liners heat molded and they feel fine but after carving for several hours the pain shows up.

It feels like a pressure point just below my inner ankle, and numbness in my heel.

I also experience a bit of heel lift, which can be reduced by tightening the boot but that seems to cause the pressure point to hurt more. 

I'm able to tighten all the buckles to the last notch and the top cuff buckle ends up being loose.

I was thinking of ordering shorter cuff cables to allow me to get the boot tighter potentially reducing heel lift, however I am nervous that the pressure point might feel worse. Would it be worth getting a fit set (foam pieces that can stick to inside of boot shell) to smooth out the pressure point? What about trying to re-mold the liners in the oven?

It hasn't really stopped me from riding, but it's definitely annoying. There is a professional boot fitter I could go see but it would be a 2.5 hour drive each way, so I'm hoping to find a way to solve it on my own. 

Has anyone else experienced something similar? 

 

I have exactly the same problem with my Deluxe 700T. I think a change of liner might help me. 

[johnasmo]

+1 on custom footbed (by a bootfitter) if you pronate at all.  Cheaper than new liners and probably is at the heart of the matter.  The boot shell isn't going to move; if you pronate or supinate your parts will bang up against the shell forming hot spots.  It's not like in a pair of sneakers or other pliable boots.

[daveo]

@Workmans sorry you lost me at goofy. Just kidding.

My experience with Deeluxe could be summed up with the term "heel lift". No amount of work fixed it for me. Had more luck in UPZ, but my foot seems to fit perfectly in Mountain Slope boots with Zipfit liners + custom footbeds. Trip to a bootfitter was necessary.

If you get the chance, it may be worth trying on another boot.

[pow4ever]

11 hours ago, daveo said:

 

 my foot seems to fit perfectly in Mountain Slope boots with Zipfit liners 

@daveo

any recommendation/thoughts on which Zipfit model?
 

[Odd Job]

I ride the Deeluxe 425's. 

I use Intuition power wrap liners with custom footbeds (superfeet half cork).

I stack pieces of cardboard on the heel as the heel-lift gets worse on a pair of molded liners.

I typically get between 1-2 years out of a set of liners (~170 days). I am happy with the performance and longevity of Intutiion. I could only use zipfits if they were extremely low volume in the right spots in the midfoot/calf area.

[hknz]

I have similar issue on the rear foot, huge pain at the back of my ankle after 3-4 days of riding. (I never have lunch or rest, and ride 7hr per day straight.)

Usually, I can tolerate it until the 7th day. The pain continues for 1 week after the ski trip.

I was using MS shell A with zipfit. The problem is still unresolved.

[Charlie2021]

Any advice on where to find a boot fitter in Barcelona? By any chance? Most of you guys are in the States/Canada right? 

By the way - can the original Deluxe Thermo Fit liners be remoulded? I bough the boots and liners from someone. I'd give it a try if possible. 

[Mr.E]

Yes, stock thermos can be moulded a few times.

I have no advice for boot fitters, but if you can tap into the local ski racer community, ask who they work with.

[Eastsiiiide]

I've been testing out the Deeluxe 700's with thermo liners.  Initially I used them with an intuition scarpa wrap I had molded to a UPZ boot, and that felt pretty good (better than the UPZs), so I went ahead and tried the Deeluxe thermo liner next: at first I heat-formed just the toe area and rode em like that.  At that point I was really happy!  I could see how the heel could lift but felt that it was basically a good reminder to adjust technique, but was not egregious.  The toe box remained super tight and painful, which isn't surprising for my feet, buy hey, the rest was the most comfortable boot ever.  Ever!  I was anticipating writing a review to the effect of: "c'mon the 700's are actually great boots and to me the heel lift flaw is more of a feature that helps me carve better, stop complaining about these boots they are awesome"... --Then-- I did a full thermo mold (home version) in hopes of improving the terrible toe box torture chamber and customizing the fit generally, and now not only are the toes are still destructively tight (like, can't go boarding two days in a row, ouching around in pain destructive), but the heel hold has gone from a 6.5/7 to a 1 or a zero out of ten.  I even got some foot cramps I didn't have before, followed by a liner that once it warms up is too loose even with the buckles maxed out. 

...Thinking a lot about OddJob's advice to forget Deeluxe liners altogether and go Intuition.  But jeez Louise, which ones exactly are going to be ideal for *my* feet?  And for how much money per experiment?? holy hell.  I actually like the idea of a boot that provides a blank slate and leaves it up to you to fill it in with footbeds and liners, but it might be a useful data point to others that it was only once I heat molded that the 700 became terrible.  Of course my hero BeckmannAG is anti-thermo, and I've been *warming* up to the idea that he may be on to something.  Particularly for hot-blooded types like me, I suspect that as my feet reach their inevitable crescendo of sultry-ness, the thermo liners falter, submit and collapse into a hot pap of uselessness.  That's certainly what it feels like. 

Also experimenting with UPZs.  Wish I had more Intuitions or zipfits to try.