Board too long?

[Cthulhufish]

I got my first alpine setup last Spring, and with Autumn approaching I've started thinking about the coming season. I got a 160cm Voyager from Donek based on their recommendation, and the board felt good in carves, but I found myself struggling to swing it around to slow down or maneuver at low speed. I found myself getting tired much faster compared to carving my soft boot boards. I weigh 115lbs, and my longer soft boot boards are up to 154cm. Is this board too long for me, or is it more likely a technique issue? I plan on doing some proper core and leg conditioning before the snowboard season either way, but if the board is just too long for me, I don't want to wear myself out fighting it.

[BlueB]

Carving boards are harder to do a sliding turn, than soft boot boards. You'll get used to it. 

[barryj]

9 hours ago, Cthulhufish said:

struggling to swing it around to slow down or maneuver at low speed.

Hey CFish,  Welcome!

Does the board track straight getting off the lift?    If not your body weight  might not be far enough forward over the nose.

Try moving your front binding forward one set of inserts.  If that's an improvement try bringing your rear binding forward one set of inserts.   You could see a profound difference in the boards responsiveness.  The key with Alpine boards is a lot of fine tuning on and off the hill to find that sweet spot for you and that particular board.

Good luck and let us know how it goes this season. 

[rst]

12 hours ago, Cthulhufish said:

I got my first alpine setup last Spring, and with Autumn approaching I've started thinking about the coming season. I got a 160cm Voyager from Donek based on their recommendation, and the board felt good in carves, but I found myself struggling to swing it around to slow down or maneuver at low speed. I found myself getting tired much faster compared to carving my soft boot boards. I weigh 115lbs, and my longer soft boot boards are up to 154cm. Is this board too long for me, or is it more likely a technique issue? I plan on doing some proper core and leg conditioning before the snowboard season either way, but if the board is just too long for me, I don't want to wear myself out fighting it.

I assume Sean made this board for your weight; so you are good here;

there is a transition from softboot to alpine equipment - the way you ride alpine board is VERY different; give the board a chance; ride it for a season

work hard on alpine technique, try to rewire your brain in order not to use softboot reflexes and instincts on alpine setup

 

 

 

[Corey]

Great advice above. I'll add that alpine boards work best in a true carve. They just don't slide/butter as easily as freestyle boards. 

That can be a little unnerving when you're starting, but stick with it and you'll see they can still be safely skidded as needed. 

[Cthulhufish]

Thanks for all the replies. It sounds like people aren't worried about the length, which was my main concern. I can control the board, and it felt good in carves. I just found it exhausting to skid for speed control or maneuvering in tight spaces, so I'd have to switch back to softboot boards or head home early. I'll work on conditioning pre-season and technique once the season starts and see how it goes this winter.

[rst]

20 minutes ago, Cthulhufish said:

Thanks for all the replies. It sounds like people aren't worried about the length, which was my main concern. I can control the board, and it felt good in carves. I just found it exhausting to skid for speed control or maneuvering in tight spaces, so I'd have to switch back to softboot boards or head home early. I'll work on conditioning pre-season and technique once the season starts and see how it goes this winter.

you will figure it out)

also you can control speed via tightening radius of a turn to stop being passenger

tilt a board quickly and early... timing matters a lot, I assume you are too late so you have to skid... I've been there quite recently)) still are sometimes (

[b.free]

Also, if you skid the turns, just try to use you upper body instead of only your legs to turn your board. Its like rotational move where you rotate your upper body (shoulders, torso, hips) instead of only your legs. It will help you a lot to save your energy

[big mario]

Curbstomp that mofo and show it who's boss

 

 

 

 

That's my answer for just about everything btw

Mario

 

[rst]

4 hours ago, b.free said:

Also, if you skid the turns, just try to use you upper body instead of only your legs to turn your board. Its like rotational move where you rotate your upper body (shoulders, torso, hips) instead of only your legs. It will help you a lot to save your energy

agree

@Cthulhufish check steps from Ben https://youtu.be/SqY2dSXY_lM

try to do them as exercise; it will help you to understand how to steer this board;

first time I watched the video, my thoughts "WTF this guy is doing... I don't need EC"... but doing it as exercise helps to get rid of soft boot habits; BTW if you want EC it's a good starting point

 

PS

BTW @b.free spent precious time on a slope to point at my soft boot legacy which was holding me back;

Ben's video helped to understand alpine basics

Edited August 25, 2021 by rst

[Jack M]

19 hours ago, Cthulhufish said:

it felt good in carves

Board is a good size then.  Yeah it just takes practice and time to get used to the different ways of skidding and maneuvering in hardboots and on a longer board.  It's foreign, uncomfortable, and exhausting at first.  Realize that when you're really carving, you're not fighting the equipment (or at least you're not supposed to be).  As you get better you'll find yourself fighting the equipment less and less.  Don't give up, it's worth it!

[lowrider]

Boards not too long hill is too short !

[softbootsurfer]

just guessing, but I noticed when in HB that the Lateral pressure they provide and the 50 50 or more stance angles requires a totally different technique, SB have no lateral pressure and angles more than 30 are normally a detriment for carving in them...your board could be a 170 or a 150 and you would be going through the same transition, to a new way of riding, turning and stopping... like I said, this is my personal experience with the two types of equipment, also I like Bigs description, I noticed immediately when in HB that I had to be very Direct with them, yet the support, response time, once you achieve the right angulation was quite incredible...really, practice will provide all you need to be successful...Enjoy

[noschoolrider]

Hello Cthulhufish,

I'm about 137lbs and my all-mountain hard boot board is a 162 Kessler slalom with binding angles of 54/48, and my primary soft boot board is a 159 (wide) Burton Flight Attendant with binding angles of 27/15 (fifteen degrees forward on the back foot). I ride hard boots and soft boots using a similar technique (movement patterns). See the Sigi Grabner (hard boot carving) and Yumi Shimizu (soft boot carving) videos below for an example of how I like to ride (and teach) carving in hard and soft boots.

Your 160cm Voyager is not too long. The increased stiffness, weight, pressure and the reduced feeling of the board interacting with the snow (due to hard boot equipment) can cause people to struggle with swinging the board around to slow down or maneuver at low speed (this can also happen when hard boot riders add a plate system under their bindings).

I suggest, when you want/need to swing the board around (for whatever reason) you focus on placing more standing weight on your front foot to free-up your back foot/leg so you can steer/slide/skid/drift the back of the board around (across the hill as much as needed). This will be easier if you first reduce the edge angle (board tilt) and focus on pivoting the board underneath you by using your front foot/leg as the pivot point - try to do it smooth and steady instead of using abrupt kicking or exaggerated/unnecessary rotary movements.

The benefits of learning to smoothly pivot the snowboard underneath your body with minimal upper body rotation are: very quick turns in very narrow areas, fluid turns in moguls/deep ruts/tight trees, and speed control anywhere/anytime plus the ability to do an emergency stop (a hockey stop on a snowboard). See the Hockey Stop video below for an example of how to quickly pivot feet/legs underneath a quiet upper body – it's a hockey coach on skates (no snowboard) but his explanation and demonstration are relatable.

If you watch the two carving videos below look for similarities in technique (body movements) and where the turn initiation and rotation/steering forces are coming from (and when are they happening) and look for what body parts have minimal rotation.

I find that precision and finesse are more efficient than brute force or exaggerated movements - that's how most experts make things look easy.

How To Hockey Stop for Beginners - pivot feet/legs underneath a quiet upper body
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIdr6KOX8uQ

Sigi Grabner (Ride With Me) - hard boot carving
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MC7HWs3kPjs&t=27

Yumi Shimizu - soft boot carving
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB5C9zn7SD0

 

[softbootsurfer]

11 hours ago, noschoolrider said:

Well said Sir !This is the Goal...

I find that precision and finesse are more efficient than brute force or exaggerated movements - that's how most experts make things look easy.
 

Precision and Finesse come from Practice and Experience...reality is, the Edge turns the board, learning how to make the edge work on a board regardless Design, Length or the boots or stance used requires Time on Snow and Desire...

 

 

[BobD]

The best advise I got in my first season was from an L3 instructor and hard boot wizard. It was to lower my rear boot angle until I had low speeds control and was able to skid comfortably. The difference was night and day. Over the season I was able to close the gap between front and rear bindings to my now normal 6-9*.

Edited August 27, 2021 by BobD

[rst]

also @Cthulhufish you can detune nose and tail

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by rst

[Shred Gruumer]

Get back to basics, finish the turn all the way, going perpendicular to the fall line or more to keep your speed in check... 

Slarving is easy, de-weight the back foot. 

 

 

[hknz]

Soft boot snowboard is of a different scale. My board is 168 which is same as my height.

160 is on the short side of the spectrum. The shortest hard boot board I have is 157.