Jack M Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 I agree with @nils and I have often wondered why alpine sells in skiing but not in snowboarding. I think part of it is because trying to go as fast as you can and relatively straight is a natural thing on skis, but on a snowboard for most people it is not natural, or even downright frightening - and not in a good way. Skis beg to go fast. Skis beg to be schussed. It feels good. Skiers inherently are more likely to want to see who can go faster. Try to bomb downhill on an average snowboard and soon the board gets squirrely and you get that puckering feeling of teetering on the brink of catching an edge. I also agree with the article that part of the raison d'etre of snowboarding is that it is not skiing. It is still marketed that way. Alpine does not conform to most snowboarder's standards of non-conformity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Jack M said: Alpine does not conform to most snowboarder's standards of non-conformity. Brilliant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishsurfer Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 19 hours ago, Jack M said: I agree with @nils and I have often wondered why alpine sells in skiing but not in snowboarding. I think part of it is because trying to go as fast as you can and relatively straight is a natural thing on skis, but on a snowboard for most people it is not natural, or even downright frightening - and not in a good way. Skis beg to go fast. Skis beg to be schussed. It feels good. Skiers inherently are more likely to want to see who can go faster. Try to bomb downhill on an average snowboard and soon the board gets squirrely and you get that puckering feeling of teetering on the brink of catching an edge. I also agree with the article that part of the raison d'etre of snowboarding is that it is not skiing. It is still marketed that way. Alpine does not conform to most snowboarder's standards of non-conformity. id say its as much ski's are easy to go fast on with fairly little skill... A novice snowboarder is probably going to deck it before they get up some serious speed where weve all seen speed tuck ski jerry straight lining at a speed way above his skill level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 3 hours ago, scottishsurfer said: id say its as much ski's are easy to go fast on with fairly little skill... A novice snowboarder is probably going to deck it before they get up some serious speed where weve all seen speed tuck ski jerry straight lining at a speed way above his skill level Agreed, which is why every skier can relate to racing, and few snowboarders can. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longboarder09 Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 (edited) Apologies for being a bit off topic, but has anyone tried using softboot liners in hardboot shells to make a more flexible/ forgiving hardboot, or is this a dumb idea? (currently have a pair of Stratos Pros without liners and Malamutes with holes, so...) Edited November 23, 2019 by Longboarder09 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted November 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 No direct experience, but my hardboot liners (Intuition Alpine) add nearly zero stiffness to the boot. They're basically just a spacer between my feet and the plastic shells. Give it a shot! Try some carpet carving to see how it'll work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRAZZ Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Longboarder09 said: Apologies for being a bit off topic, but has anyone tried using softboot liners in hardboot shells to make a more flexible/ forgiving hardboot, or is this a dumb idea? (currently have a pair of Stratos Pros without liners and Malamutes with holes, so...) That's exactly what I did and it turned my 700s from a stiff brick into something much more rideable. More comfortable too! I think the liners (especially the wrap around type) add significantly to the stiffness. Using SB liners doesn't turn your boots to mush but you'll feel the difference. I say that if you feel your boots are too stiff and you have softboot liners give it a try! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishsurfer Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 the reverse works i put my head ski boot liners with the plastic tongue in my not so softs to make them stiffer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelc Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 3 hours ago, JRAZZ said: That's exactly what I did and it turned my 700s from a stiff brick into something much more rideable. More comfortable too! I think the liners (especially the wrap around type) add significantly to the stiffness. Using SB liners doesn't turn your boots to mush but you'll feel the difference. I say that if you feel your boots are too stiff and you have softboot liners give it a try! Isn't that what the BTS or similar is for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, Longboarder09 said: Apologies for being a bit off topic, but has anyone tried using softboot liners in hardboot shells to make a more flexible/ forgiving hardboot, or is this a dumb idea? (currently have a pair of Stratos Pros without liners and Malamutes with holes, so...) softboot liners are usually too short in the cuff, Try ski touring boot liners, softer all around flex and especially for/aft being designed for walk mode, I way prefer tongue liners to wraps as tongues allow more range of movement in plastic shells, better for off piste and pow Edited November 23, 2019 by b0ardski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 12 hours ago, Corey said: No direct experience, but my hardboot liners (Intuition Alpine) add nearly zero stiffness to the boot. They're basically just a spacer between my feet and the plastic shells. Interesting, Intuition PowerWrap transformed my UPZs. Big improvement. I would think SB liners would be too short as @b0ardski says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longboarder09 Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 The cuff of the liners clear the heel cuff of the shell by just a little. Definitely curious to see if these would be rideable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 looks like they'd work, do some carpet surfing and see if there's any hot spots or slop between shells Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRAZZ Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 10 hours ago, nigelc said: Isn't that what the BTS or similar is for? Not really. The BTS is for fore-aft flexibility. I actually run pretty stiff springs on those. The liners allow the boot to flex in all directions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted November 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 4 hours ago, Jack M said: Interesting, Intuition PowerWrap transformed my UPZs. Big improvement. I prefer softer boot flex than you. Debating trying the red tongues, but I have the DGSS to try first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colozeus Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 On 11/23/2019 at 1:38 PM, Corey said: I prefer softer boot flex than you. Debating trying the red tongues, but I have the DGSS to try first. So one thing that really helped me out last season was going back to the stock spring system on my upz. And, i'm fairly certain that it's due to my limited rear ankle dorsiflexion. I'm now able to lock my rear boot with one more click of forward lean than my front. I was at a friendsgiving this past weekend and i was talking to some softboarders about hard boots and they had never heard about them. I showed them a few videos and they were all fairly stoked about it. I doubt they will actually invest in the gear to try out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1xsculler Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 On 11/16/2019 at 6:05 PM, b0ardski said: I loved my sx91e "slope slippers" Still use my sx91s when I'm forced into skiing by my grandkids. I've tried numerous newer ski boots during the past twenty years but can't find any I like as well as the sx91s. I have picked like new ones up at garage sales/ski swaps for as little as $3/pair. Nothing better for all kinds of skiing IF they fit your feet, IMHO. I even used them on Alpine boards/plates for a few years in the late 1990s and, to this day, I'm not totally convinced that my UPZs are any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishsurfer Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 50 minutes ago, Colozeus said: I was at a friendsgiving this past weekend and i was talking to some softboarders about hard boots and they had never heard about them. I showed them a few videos and they were all fairly stoked about it. I doubt they will actually invest in the gear to try out. yeah getting to try alpine stuff is another issue I was lucky i literally got an really old set-up as a comedy christmas present after saying i was pretty sure i could jump from softs to hards pretty easily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, 1xsculler said: Still use my sx91s when I'm forced into skiing by my grandkids. I've tried numerous newer ski boots during the past twenty years but can't find any I like as well as the sx91s. I have picked like new ones up at garage sales/ski swaps for as little as $3/pair. Nothing better for all kinds of skiing IF they fit your feet, IMHO. I even used them on Alpine boards/plates for a few years in the late 1990s and, to this day, I'm not totally convinced that my UPZs are any better. I used the solomons a couple times in '90 and then I bought UPS's (before the z, same molds as the burton megaflex) way better lateral flex than any ski boot of the day, and the hot pink matched my K2 TX for extra steeze Edited November 27, 2019 by b0ardski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aracan Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 On 11/16/2019 at 3:23 PM, philw said: I think the article is excellent, bang on the money. With snowboarding the major narrative has been essentially that "it's not skiing". So much this. Whenever someone mentions hardboots on a softbooter forum, the standard response is "no, because then it would be like skiing". Which at least tells you that the poster offering that piece of wisdom is clueless about alpine snowboarding as well as alpine skiing. As for the Envy bindings, I call bullshit on the picture in the site header. If the binding sits flush with the outward edge of a normal AM carving ski, there will be at least 5 cm of overhang over the inward edge. The widest part of the street shoes I am wearing right now is 11 cm. With the added thickness of a softboot and the width of the binding itself, we are talking at least 14 cm. A normal ski has a 7-8 cm waist. Just as length with our hardboots, width is a critical factor for ski boots. Seems not the smartest move to replace them with a system were width was not a consideration from the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 On 11/22/2019 at 8:29 PM, Corey said: No direct experience, but my hardboot liners (Intuition Alpine) add nearly zero stiffness to the boot. They're basically just a spacer between my feet and the plastic shells. Give it a shot! Try some carpet carving to see how it'll work out. I think it depends on the relative stiffness of the shell and the liner. My Speed Red TFs stiffened up my old SB224s considerably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuxdiesel Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 These Solomon S/Lab Mtn. look interesting. 120 flex, but like most A/T or Alpine boots, the soles are pretty long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 It looks like that heel could easily be altered a wee bit to accept in/fintec, with interchangeable pin tech and DINtech, one boot to rule them all! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifeform Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 On 11/23/2019 at 2:36 AM, Longboarder09 said: Apologies for being a bit off topic, but has anyone tried using softboot liners in hardboot shells to make a more flexible/ forgiving hardboot, or is this a dumb idea? (currently have a pair of Stratos Pros without liners and Malamutes with holes, so...) I have put liners from Driver x to Burton Reactor and ride with them, it was great feeling, very comfy wich was strange to me, because Driver x were really hurting my feet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aracan Posted November 29, 2019 Report Share Posted November 29, 2019 On 11/23/2019 at 8:38 PM, Corey said: I prefer softer boot flex than you. Debating trying the red tongues, but I have the DGSS to try first. I did buy the DGSS first. I got the very definite impression that after the change, the black tongue was the limiting factor - it just didn't allow the boot to flex as it could have with the DGSS. Got the red tongues too, all is good now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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