AT ski boots for plates?

[Mr.E]

I can't speak to the backland, but the Fischer (and some of the other similar boots) are PU or Grilimid. I have the "Carbon", which references a carbon stiffening shank in the sole (one of the reasons I was interested in them). I have no doubt they could be punched or have other shell mods done.

With some of the Boa and internal gaiter stuff going on you can't just blow open the lower to get tools in there like 2 or 3 piece traditional boots, so I can see why some boot fitters might be a bit hesitant. But the material is the same as many of the race boots they are working on (albeit thinner in many cases).

I'm going to try an Intuition Plug wrap in mine- hoping the low volume is good for the forefoot, and the stiffer wrap better for the cuff. The Paulu touring liners are very thin and light, but since I'm looking for resort/ side country, I don't mind beefing them up some.

[AJCdice]

After being on 325's or Free69's (same thing) for nearly 20 years, my own Backland experiment begins this weekend with 4 days at very average mountains on family vacation.  Thanks to Grip for the boots.  As I try to dial the setup for myself, the testing matrix looks like this: 

1. Liner test: Intuition LV tongue liner that is currently in them versus my Palau Wrap 151's out of my Deeluxe boots.  

2. Strap test: Atomic original power strap versus my red Boosters.

3. Lean test: Forward lean of Phantom springs in ride mode (I would welcome anyone's guidance on ranges here and front relative to back).

4. Board test: My Coiler SLAMT 165 everyday board, my old Madd 170 for something skinny with high angles to test, and my Fish for a non alpine board even though I'm not looking for any New Hampshire powder in the next few days.

5. Fitness test.  How the f@ck can I survive without the crutch of Intecs at the top of each run after 15 years that way.

6. Ski test. Going to ski in them as well on some borrowed gear. If I can ski and ride in the same day on the same boots, great.

In my living room testing, these things are indeed light as a feather--basically half of what the Intec'ed, booster'ed Free69's weigh, and the volume just seems so much smaller overall.  Looking forward. 

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by AJCdice

[dudedude]

I can help with a few of these based on my own testing...

1. Liner - I’m using intuitions. After forming them and the boots I’ve had no issues with heel hold or all day comfort. Toes get kinda cold towards the end of a session, but nothing worse than any other boot I’ve had. 
 

2. strap - the Velcro strap is ok. I swapped mine out for a booster just to make it easier to tighten down. 
 

3.  For soft boot angles, I’m close to max forward lean. With the green springs, the boots are more responsive than my Salomon malamutes on toesides and are comparable to any stiff bindings on heel sides. You should have no problems driving the Fish. 
 

Hardboot angles (>50 degrees) are where I’ve been running into a challenge. Even with the rear boot lean max’ed out, I still can’t get into the right crouch position. I need some heel/toe lift, so that’s where I’m stuck for the moment. The boots were stiff enough to drive an alpine board at ~45 degree angles, but I had a lot of overhang and so couldn’t really push it. 
 

4. I’ve used this with both a Dupraz and an Osin 3800, the boots worked brilliantly as a soft boot replacement on both powder and groom. I end up with less overhang as well, which is a nice bonus. 

Really curious if you’re able to get your position worked out on the Madd, and how the boots feel for you at those angles. 
 

Good luck!

[AJCdice]

26 minutes ago, dudedude said:

Hardboot angles (>50 degrees) are where I’ve been running into a challenge. Even with the rear boot lean max’ed out, I still can’t get into the right crouch position. I need some heel/toe lift, so that’s where I’m stuck for the moment. The boots were stiff enough to drive an alpine board at ~45 degree angles, but I had a lot of overhang and so couldn’t really push it. 

Really curious if you’re able to get your position worked out on the Madd, and how the boots feel for you at those angles. 

All that data is super helpful--thanks dudedude.

I will let you know re: high angles.  My Coiler is 20.5, so I will have high angles on both boards--not just the Madd.  I fear the same as you without lift and cant tweaks to help--while I wait to get a new standard binding setup, I will be on my old Burton bindings, not my heavily canted and lifted F2 intecs, so my testing may be incomplete unless I score some F2's last minute.

[Mig]

On 2/12/2020 at 3:27 PM, dudedude said:

4. I’ve used this with both a Dupraz and an Osin 3800, the boots worked brilliantly as a soft boot replacement on both powder and groom. I end up with less overhang as well, which is a nice bonus. 

Oh! Interesting! What softboots were you using on those boards and in what size? And what were your binding angles for both (softboot and with the Backland)?

[JRAZZ]

Met up with Alex Gelb (alex@phantomsnow.com) who is the COO for Phantom at a demo day today. They are working on setting up ready to buy splitboard boots. I thought what they are doing is awesome so I'd thought I'd share with you.

From what I understand the are basing this on the Backland Ultimate. When I picked one up I thought it would keep on going up. Seriously light! I feel that the Ultimate is too light and flexible but it seems that these guys have heard us loud and clear. They are working on using an elastomer instead of a spring and Alex did say that the Carbon is probably a better choice if you want something stiffer. 

As far as the mods are concerned, they moved the booster strap down to hold the heel and got rid of the criss-cross latch. I'm thinking that if they could incorporate something like the Deeluxe heel strap that would be better. I don't like velcro but the idea is great!

They are also experimenting with liners. Looking into wrap liners, again, to make it stiffer. The latch looks great!! Really well made and solid. I like it!

As I understand it they are trying to sell this as a package. He did say around $700 but that is not final. 

 

My take: This is really good! Definitely more work to be done but I'm stoked that they are working on it. I think that they will never really replace full on carving boots like the Deeluxe or UPZ but as a softboot replacement these could be great!

[charliechocolate]

Atomic got back to my email after three weeks with regard to whether the shells can be punched. Below is their non-answer:

Quote

Thank you for taking the time to contact us about our Backland Carbon boots

Sorry to hear that you have had some issues with them. We'd strongly advise finding out what the best solution might be with a boot fitter. This way they will be able to physically see your foot in the boot.

These boots do have Memory Fit: With Memory Fit all three elements of the boot adapt to the foot – shell, cuff and liner – and memorize the entire foot shape. Expansion can be up to 6 mm in total forefoot width and up 10 mm in total ankle width.

Hopefully with a good boot fitter they can assist you on this, most Atomic retailers have someone there to help you. Please see the store locator below:

https://www.atomic.com/en-us/dealerlocator

We advise calling ahead to make sure that there is someone there in store that day you go!

Best Regards,

Molly

+18336878664
Atomic Consumer Service

Either way, Tom from Intuition said he's done them before so certainly possible.

edit: basically what the good doctor already said.

Edited February 17, 2020 by charliechocolate

[philw]

On 12/27/2019 at 3:03 PM, philw said:

...I don't know if they'll rip on my race boards, but I don't see why they would not.

Now I know.

I just spent my first and last day this season at Whistler/ Blackcomb. The back country was hammered because of wind, but with minus 22 temperatures the resorts pistes were in excellent condition top to bottom. Crisp and grippy everywhere, with some more icy bits towards the bottom, although all ridable easy enough on a Kessler SL with hard boots. 

Anyway, that was also my first day with the Phantom modified Atomic Backlands on hard pack, and in short they rock. I tried fall line at various speeds, different turn styles, massive carves on the quiet pistes at mach 2 (no speed cops about all day, although I saw one on the lift...), the whole thing. It's hard to be objective and I have no way to do an A:B comparison, but these things don't limit what I can do. 

I suppose:

• They feel lighter, which of course they are. When thinking about them, that's the first obvious thing though, your board feels lighter and more chuckable. Maybe it's just a feeling, but it's a nice one.
   
• I'm not actually sure how the dynamics of my old boots worked. They were stiff-ish, but there's a lot of articulation within the liner and the shell would deform as I loaded it. I definitely used the boot stiffness to control the snowboard, but probably not in a simple way. The backlands are actually pretty stiff side-to side. Whilst those springs presumably put some damping into the fore-aft plane, I can trivially overpower them - those are dampers, but I suspect I'm running against the boot stiffness most of the time.
   
• When I moved to Intec years ago I appreciated the lack of slop the heel connector gave me compared with what I'd been using. The Atomics have rubber soles which I'd guess provides some damping, but they clamp in with minimal force and seem to stay put.

Anyway, I'm sold - they don't slow me down, for whatever reason. I'm sure world-cup race people will continue to use more specialized gear, but for resort-legal speeds at least I'm not looking for anything else at the moment,

[TimW]

On 2/4/2020 at 1:00 AM, Beckmann AG said:

 

Depending on the layup, fiber orientation, and epoxy, one could probably distort a carbon shell, but not to the extent you can with plastic.

It could also be thermoplastic matrix instead of epoxy,  which would allow quite a bit of distortion. 

[Mr.E]

5 hours ago, philw said:

Now I know.

Phil, how big of a human are you?

[philw]

On 3/15/2020 at 8:25 PM, Mr.E said:

Phil, how big of a human are you?

Good point.

62kgs/ 1.75m, so not remotely large. My Kessler SL is the 156 which is perfect for my weight.

[Mr.E]

I'm 95kg/ 178cm, and for me the Fischer are fine for a freeride deck, but a bit anemic for pushing 185gs sticks.

[philw]

Makes sense. I suppose they scale boots to cope with the square/cube business, but it's still probably easier to make a smaller boot for lower loads. Also long boards are likely somewhat different to drive.

[lonbordin]

As a follow-up.

Phantom now sells a fully modified Atomic Backland as the Phantom Slipper.
https://www.phantomsnow.com/collections/boots/products/phantom-slipper

Boot tech-
https://www.phantomsnow.com/pages/phantom-slipper-tech

They also have places you can demo Phantom Slippers.  Which makes it one of the few ways one can try hardboot snowboarding in North America. 
https://www.phantomsnow.com/pages/demo

I asked Matt Manser, Atomic's boot guy, and apparently Atomic makes the shell for Phantom officially! 

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by lonbordin
Atomic is now our largest manufacturer 🤯

[Dingoose]

I’ve transitioned from a softboots to a pair of AT phantom slippers(atomic backland shell) since they released. They work fantastically. I’d prefer never to go softboots again. Looking to get a pair of plate bindings since the touring ones just don’t have the durability for resort carving abuse.

I grabbed a pair of F2 Carve RS, but the bail height was waaaay higher than what I expected. A lot of separation between it and the cleat. 

It sounds like some people had successes with the F2 Race TIs with the backland shell. Does the TI have a more adjustable bail, or am I just misconfiguring something right now?
 

[LambertoMI]

I use the F2 race ti system with good success.  The taller bails will bend down enough to work with AT boots.  I have about 5-6 pair that I have used on several boot set ups.  Seems to be not an issue