michael.a Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Just wondering, besides a loss in camber for whatever reason is there anything else that happens to a board as it gets older? Does the board generally soften up or stiffen? Rode a 15 year old board recently that was in storage for some time and it just felt weird, like the flex was wrong, no edge hold on the hard stuff, no pop. Almost certain the base doesn't absorb as much wax as it used to. On another board I noticed the topsheet is starting to lift at places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Brammer aka PSR Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 If you keep them well, they are usually fine. In my experience, Rust on Edges (to the point of pitting) is a big killer, but, also, molds that eat plastics are very, very destructive, but subtle enough you might not understand just 'why' the base separated from the board. For camber, I used a rack that helps keep the camber (search freecarve for that), but, yeah, as you stretch + flex a board, it'll lose some energy return, camber, and the flex will get softer.Be wary, too, of the inserts, as the bond they have can get weakened, and they can then spin in the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Materials like resin/epoxy, plastic, wood can become brittle with age. Inside your board, the epoxy probably looks like this: I have an '89 Burton Safari and a chunk of the sidewall just fell out. On my first board, '88 Burton Elite 150, I recently went to take the bindings off and they just broke into pieces in my hands. This is why I die a little bit every time a ~15 year old board is sold in the classifieds here. (except for original Madds of course!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Jack quit feeding us bull that is clearly a pellet hole in the window and i suspect your son claims he knows nothing about it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Brammer aka PSR Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 Oh, I thought that was my ex-boss's stained-glass cathedral window of his multi-million dollar domicile. Rats, I'll be a better shot next time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 Epoxy shouldn't "age" or "spider crack". Polyester yes, but no respectable board builder would use that... The fibre laminates and wood fibres in the cores can develop enough micro cracks for the entire board to become softer, or loose camber. Most of the plastics are sensitive to UV and to heat/cold extremes, some to greater, some to lesser extent. They can become brittle and fall apart like in Jack's example. However, if just stored away properly, they can last for many decades. Wood cores can get the moisture too, if the envelope is compromised, leading to rot, softening or deformation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertAlexander Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 I use a slow cure epoxy, 24 hrs at 80 deg f, If under 80 deg, it needs to be in there 5 days. Done some samples of quick cure and slow cure, the quick cure hardens and shatters to pieces with impact, The slow cure still hardens, but does not shatter, on impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Brammer aka PSR Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, BlueB said: Epoxy shouldn't "age" or "spider crack". Polyester yes, but no respectable board builder would use that... The fibre laminates and wood fibres in the cores can develop enough micro cracks for the entire board to become softer, or loose camber. Most of the plastics are sensitive to UV and to heat/cold extremes, some to greater, some to lesser extent. They can become brittle and fall apart like in Jack's example. However, if just stored away properly, they can last for many decades. Wood cores can get the moisture too, if the envelope is compromised, leading to rot, softening or deformation. In and that, Moisture and UV are the worst degraders ,over time. And, worse, they're what you get when you stuff things into various 'storage' areas. BTW, have had 5 mid-late 80's bindings just do what Jack noted, and 2 nineties-vintage, plus a a pair from 2002. As for boards, I've tossed two, one to rust pitting, the other to full base separation, both due to moisture in storage. My 'Mold' issue was because my pole-barn, when we rented out my house, got hit by neighbor's tall pines in a mild windstorm, the mold then leached in under the roof tin. Yeah. my Ex owes more than she knows! Edited January 12, 2017 by Eric Brammer aka PSR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRAZZ Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 The usual mode of failure for composites is delamination. While the epoxy does become more brittle with age it's brittle to begin with. It's real job is to hold the glass or carbon fibers together. With age and movement the bonds weaken and break. This is usually what happens to composites over time. I expect that even in storage moisture gets into the wood making it weaker as well over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik J Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 My older boards start telling the same damn stories over and over. The amount of Metamucil they eat is astonishing. They keep saying things like "back in my day we would carve uphill both ways"...and then their fake teeth fall out Don't get me started on their enlarged, exposed prostate, hanging out of their shorts while they shuffle toward the bathroom for 2 hours. Off to the old boards home for you. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Brammer aka PSR Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) OK,Ej, So what was the prognosis for my '80 Backhill? And, a broken hip doesn't count! Edited January 12, 2017 by Eric Brammer aka PSR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik J Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 14 hours ago, Eric Brammer aka PSR said: OK,Ej, So what was the prognosis for my '80 Backhill? And, a broken hip doesn't count! off to the glue factory like an old horse. Or soylent green or something. Send it back from whence it came. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STP Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 I just ordered my third Donek 185 Freecarve with 12M sidecut with same specs. First board from 2005- 2010 and at least 280 days of hard riding. I liked the board so much I had to have another. When I received the same spec board it was radically different. It was very stiff and in any soft conditions I would blow out if pushed to hard or knife the nose if I tilted too soon and not let the nose build up. The old board started to just love the softer conditions and the new board needed hard pack. I have had the new board from 2011 to present and it has at least 200 days of riding. I know it is getting softer and loves the soft and I can really load up the board because it is soft. I will receive the new identical board Friday of next week. I also ordered a custom 185 Donek Hazelwood and will receive at the same time. I will then ski on vacation for 7 straight days at Bachelor. Kid in a candy store. I will provide an update, but generally the boards just soften up and you don't notice until you get a new board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 that's more from heavy use and flexing rather than ageing composites. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 I recall @johnasmo speaking about this on a chair ride a couple of years ago. He tracked vertical feet on each board and replaced them after so many. Unfortunately, I don't remember any of the details, other than I wasn't certain I've ridden that many vertical feet in my entire time snowboarding, let alone with each board. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STP Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Quote that's more from heavy use and flexing rather than ageing composites The base of the boards actually are pervious and will dry out if not waxed. The worst thing you can do to a board is to not wax at the end of the season. Place a thick coat of wax at the end of the year and this will protect your boards for years to come. The only boards that bases start to break down are on boards with no wax. You can see that the base starts to turn white and thus a sign of oxidation or drying out. Also, wax your board fairly often during the year. Either when conditions temperatures and conditions change or every 3-4 times riding...Could also be more often depending on the amount of time on the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Bases do not dry out, it's a myth. For something to "dry out", something liquid has to evaporate from it. Wax evaporates at higher temps then indoors, so no. What wax does is protects the Ptex from UV, elements, air and most importantly, dust. As the Ptex is actually microscopically porous, it can get clogged by finest dust particles. Also running a waxless board melts the surface, again on microscopic level and closes those pores, especially with extruded bases. Also, what industry doesn't want you to know is that simple paraffin (candle wax) is sufficient, unless racing or very cold temps. It's the 99% content of the expensive waxes, the rest are additives to adjust for temps or extra glide... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger jr Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 On January 20, 2017 at 8:57 AM, corey_dyck said: I recall @johnasmo speaking about this on a chair ride a couple of years ago. He tracked vertical feet on each board and replaced them after so many. Unfortunately, I don't remember any of the details, other than I wasn't certain I've ridden that many vertical feet in my entire time snowboarding, let alone with each board. ;) 2 years ago when conditions were warm/ firm at SES,I tuned up one of johnasmos Coilers. I think he said it was approaching 2,000,000 vertical ft for that board. He had never sharpened the edges before...... Said something about the snow is usually soft in Montana. The edges were still perfect, no dings or anything, just perfectly rounded. He did say it had more grip on the firm snow after sharpening. John is kind of a freak though, so YMMV :) I' m thinking like Corey, I'm still shy of 2,000,000 lifetime total carving vert:( It did make me much less anal about my edges,unless it's firm/hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 It is placed on the classifieds section of Bomber, about a dozen tire kickers ask about it with no intention of buying, and after a month or two it's sold for a substantial discount from the initial asking price ;-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger jr Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 15 hours ago, digger jr said: What? It's what happens when a board ages :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger jr Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 I got it now, a little slow..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big mario Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, digger jr said: I got it now, a little slow..... Only a Little??? Edited January 25, 2017 by big mario felt the need to add superevilsnarkyemoticon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terekhov Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 On 1/21/2017 at 3:28 AM, BlueB said: Wax evaporates at higher temps then indoors, so no. As the Ptex is actually microscopically porous, it can get clogged by finest dust particles. Also, what industry doesn't want you to know is that simple paraffin (candle wax) is sufficient, unless racing or very cold temps. It's the 99% content of the expensive waxes, the rest are additives to adjust for temps or extra glide... sorry, but all that statements is obviously false. "skiing at the triple point" book give you some sciency answers, I can only give intuitive: wax dry evaporates (week ago I dug out pogo reefer board from storage which I've waxed 3yrs ago, prepped, and didn't ride then. it's completely whiteishly dry). it's a matter of practical fact. it is purely cosmetic effect though and completely reversible, there's not any problem in storing boards (indoors, out of sun, with stable climate, sure) without any wax on it, and then wax to glue ptex' fluff down to better gliding. sintered ptex - as used on all boards and skis not of rubbish quality - is completely nonporous and solid. all of ptex porousness is city legend, sorry for that. all commercial waxes produced from (almost) TWO different kinds of paraffins - soft and hard. soft (pure medical stuff, used in candle wax e.g.) - can be practically used for conservation or what, but cuts away of ptex on the first couple runs completely. when RIDING below -5C or on harder slopes - there's not any practicality in it. but yes, it's pretty OK base prep stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 Don't know man... I had boards in storage for years and they still had wax on them. "Dry evaporation" would also mean that candles would disappear after few years, and we all know that doesn't happen. Ask any board builder why they torch-flame the ptex before laminating to the board. I'm pretty sure it has to do with opening the pores for epoxy to adhere better. Maybe Sean would chime in here. As for the candle wax, Scoob and I were waxing our boards this way for almost a decade, now. We've proven time after time that it is actually faster the when our buddies used incorrect expensive wax for given conditions. Yes, under -5C, or I'm even tempted to say -8C, it becomes slower then a harder wax. However, it does not disappear after few runs. All I'd have to do is give it another hand rub and scotchbrite scrub, for the next ride. But then, we ride mostly in 0C to -10C conditions. Maybe I'd look into something more expensive if I lived in a really cold climate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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