Crazy obsessed carvers

[big mario]

This took place during a carving session, people brought their carving boards to a place that is noted for its grooming, and carving. If you look at some of the responses from people that rarely see freshies, most don't even own a pow stick, or if they do, they more than likely weren't willing to pay extra baggage fees to bring it. So, many where stuck having to run what they brung. I am obsessed with carving, and will admit to preferring a good solid groom over powder, but I am not getting rid of my tanker anytime soon. John, when I was still running softies, I spent many a day doing laps off of the Ridge and 8 in freshies, I just don't find it that magical anymore, kinda ... meh... I must be getting jaded in my advancing age

mario

Edited February 15, 2014 by big mario

[b0ardski]

yeah, expecting to demo the whole carving toy store and left fighting over the hazelwoods/axxeses would throw a damper on months of expectation.

[Bobby Buggs]

If I attended I would have been on my Coiler 177 Free carve metal. Keep in mind I love carving but by the end of the trip I would have been a much better rider by adapting to the conditions to have fun. But who am I to say, I forget there are people here that Carving is their ONLY thing. Sorry but Im not one of them as its important to ME to be able to ride what ever the day throws my way and do it well by the end.

And as far as the advanced age thing goes I get the big 51 in May. Not sure thats advanced but its no kid.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Bobby Buggs

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Yes.

..

Ok, then I will "Undelete" my earlier post I thought was too serious.

Edited February 15, 2014 by www.oldsnowboards.com

[neanderthal]

The enemy of good is better.

Sometimes the pursuit of better is the exact act which causes loss of that which is good.

If i'm bummed about about not having a perfect setup for X I may not realize that what I have is exactly the right tool for Y.

remember snowboard marketing wisdom - No matter where you go there you air!

[Corey]

... by the end of the trip I would have been a much better rider by adapting to the conditions to have fun...

Boy, does that ever describe my SES! Carving soft groom, carving through/around push piles, funny crashes, taking the zipper line down moguls, playing in the pow on the sides of runs, Richard giving me season-changing tips from watching 4 turns on video, laughing with friends, big tales in the hot tub, etc. Those points wouldn't have been different no matter what equipment I was on. :)

[digger jr]

Crazy Obsessed Carvers.....C.O.C. What a great name for a session. What are the dates and location?

SES was Aspen Extreme. Pow to groom and everything in between ( tree wells ). Always great to watch and learn from so many great riders. Like someone said, you seem to learn by osmosis just from being around so many carvers, seeing all the different styles/technics, riding with people from all around the world. Hope everyone has

recovered (or is recovering well).

[Steve Prokopiw]

I only went to SES for the last day, and several other resort during the next few days,but I took three boards and one pair of boots.It was win win win as all three boards perform well in varied conditions.My 2006 167 Rossi Jeremy Jones Narrow still carves in deep,chopped up soft snow,and rips in fresh pow,my 210 Diablo absolutely eats up 4" of chop,and my THIRST 8x 188 with Boiler Plate,well,it just plain rips. Long live C.O.C. !

[Missionman]

I've been honing my very meager skills this year on the hardboots, so that last several times out have been almost exclusively in the hardboots, regardless of whether the conditions were 'groomy' or all cut up. I enjoyed either condition -partly because I felt like I was sort of 'learning' to ride the chop in hardboots. Today I was at Whiteface after its received a good amount of snow. After spending most of the day with my son in skis, I got away - went out on the softboots for hte first time since before the new year. Man what a difference. Frankly, way more comfy than the the hardboots (i've been using the first degree stormtrooper ski boots when there's a chance of skiing and hardbooting on the same day), but what a lack of support! Felt like I could have been shoveling the driveway with these boots or going on a hike. Got me wondering what i was paying 2 bills for these - could have just any old winter boots (back to the sorels!).

But on the skiied out, bumpy chop, it was awesome. Love the bumps and surfing out the mounds of powder, taking some of them to get a little air, something I doubt i"ll even be able to with the same comfort in hardboots.

As someone said above, my most memorable rides have been powder runs on my odds trips out west.

What I like about hardbooting, and softbooting and, now skiing, is that it gives me something to enjoy all winter. IN the Toronto area, its almost impossible to enjoy an 'epic' powder run. But I can learn on the hardboots when the conditions are right; can stay on the hardboots to conquer the chop; can do the same in hte softboots; or even the skis. Tree runs? - get out the shorter stick. When i go out west I'll bring out a carver, a pow ride and even a freestyle/freeride board - do whatever the conditions allow.

I gotta say, though, I do like the attention that the plate rides get. :)

[BBQ Chef]

This might be blasphemous, but when there is too much powder, I break out the skis. One of my best days on the hills was last March 20th at Stratton skiing powder.

[Mike T]

This might be blasphemous, but when there is too much powder, I break out the skis. One of my best days on the hills was last March 20th at Stratton skiing powder.

There's no such thing as blasphemy when it comes to maximizing your enjoyment of a powder day!!! (Says the guy who runs for his soft boots and Prior Fissile)

Edited February 17, 2014 by Mike T

[Beckmann AG]

^

^ "plus 1", Chef.

But...

... too much powder,...

What is this mythical beast of which you speak?

[BBQ Chef]

Too much for the board, but you are right about never too much. It's about having the right tools to do the job.

[bigwavedave]

For me, soft boots feel better on many levels in powder. What you said, and the fact that once it gets tracked and bumpy, I have an easier time soaking all that up with a setup that allows me to ride better out-of-position, since the tracks and bumps are going to put me out of position whether I like it or not.

If powder days consisted of fresh tracks all day I'd be as happy in hard boots as soft... but since that is never the case, I ride my pow in softies.

Mike, I think maybe you summed up the difference well. In my limited powder experience and almost exclusive hardboot riding for 20 years, untracked powder was great in hardboots, but I found the deep, tracked up powder conditions in Aspen challenging and exhausting in hardboots.

That said, I'ld love to hear what folks recommend for good soft boots and bindings for powder? I might just have to give the soft set up a another try for the occasional pow encounter. I've gotten along without softies all these years as they are far from the best tool for riding on "Minnesota firm". I already have the board, a Nomad.

John, it was great hanging out with you. If you haven't seen it, you might find softbootsailor's post today interesting, relating his experience seeing a skier get caught in a Highlands Bowl avalanche 30 years ago.

[John E]

Dave -

I enjoyed your company as well. I did not see Bob's account of the skier caught in an avalanche in HB. Where can I find the thread?

My analogy of filet mignon to meat loaf may not be apt. A better analogy might be:

You're invited to a steak dinner. You bring you favorite steak knives. When you arrive, your host announces that there won't be any steak. Instead you're having ice cream.

You try to eat the ice cream with a steak knife. You can do it but it isn't easy - even if you practice at it. The guy next to you pulls out a spoon and really enjoys the ice cream.

I'm sure that those who practice carving in all conditions get better & better at it. For me, if there is fresh snow & I have a board better suited to it, I will use that board.

I'm also not saying that soft boots are better than hard for soft snow conditions. My soft snow boards are set up with soft boots. I want to try hard boots in soft snow but I haven't yet had the opportunity.

Also, not having one tool for all conditions is frustrating. I too am always questioning whether the setup I'm on is the best choice. Maybe it is best in the AM but not so good in the PM.

We all seek the quiver killer - the Swiss Army Knife of snowboards. The best tool for every job.

[carvercutie]

John, I couldn't agree more!!!!! Different boards for different conditions= maximum joy!! And of late, I am totally digging the deep pow! Of course, it helps that I suck at carving...:)

Ween

[Neil Gendzwill]

We all seek the quiver killer - the Swiss Army Knife of snowboards. The best tool for every job.

If that existed, what would Shred and Kurt do with all their money?

[Puddy Tat]

I wasn't in Aspen for SES so I missed that dump. However i'm probably in the Philw camp as I think dealing with deep powder or uber soft groomers is more of a board, and technique, specific issue than a boot/binding issue. I also don't buy the "go back to softboots" for powder days argument as I don't see skiers tossing their plastic aside and pulling out leather 'pow boots' when it gets deep. Instead skiers grab their pow specific skis. To further add to this argument note that a growing number of splitboarders are starting to switch to AT boots both because they tour much better and there is no loss of ride mode capability.

I've had some super soft groom days, (post 72cms of snow in three days), where I had to completely re-learn how to apply edge pressure. I've also caught my front edge while putting on the brakes in 12" of pow before i learned to feather it properly. But once you sort it all out it becomes rather magical and you become a much better all around rider. This all being said I tend to ride AM boards with stiffened UPZ ATBs rather than my softened UPZ RC10s; though in all honesty these boots have probably approached each other enough now in stiffness that I could get away with just riping the RC10s everywhere and only changing boards for the conditions.

All these things require time, patience, and exposure to variable conditions to learn; which as someone above said no one really wants to take the time to learn on a pow day.

Dave

[bigwavedave]

I wasn't in Aspen for SES so I missed that dump. However i'm probably in the Philw camp as I think dealing with deep powder or uber soft groomers is more of a board, and technique, specific issue than a boot/binding issue. I also don't buy the "go back to softboots" for powder days argument as I don't see skiers tossing their plastic aside and pulling out leather 'pow boots' when it gets deep. Instead skiers grab their pow specific skis. To further add to this argument note that a growing number of splitboarders are starting to switch to AT boots both because they tour much better and there is no loss of ride mode capability.

I've had some super soft groom days, (post 72cms of snow in three days), where I had to completely re-learn how to apply edge pressure. I've also caught my front edge while putting on the brakes in 12" of pow before i learned to feather it properly. But once you sort it all out it becomes rather magical and you become a much better all around rider. This all being said I tend to ride AM boards with stiffened UPZ ATBs rather than my softened UPZ RC10s; though in all honesty these boots have probably approached each other enough now in stiffness that I could get away with just riping the RC10s everywhere and only changing boards for the conditions.

All these things require time, patience, and exposure to variable conditions to learn; which as someone above said no one really wants to take the time to learn on a pow day.

Dave

Yea, I still think MikeT's comments ring true--hardboots great in deep untracked powder (what Philw and splitboarders are riding in), but challenging for balance in deep, uneven tracked out powder. Also, agree skis are inherently much easier and versatile in all conditions having poles and the ability to transfer weight from one ski to the other.

For the super soft groom on the following days, I did have more fun carving (with hardboots) on an old 180 Donek incline than on a modern carve-specific board. So I agree that the board choice can make a big difference there.

So what soft boots do knowledgeable carving folks recommend for powder?

[Neil Gendzwill]

So what soft boots do knowledgeable carving folks recommend for powder?

I'd be curious on this one too. I always thought if I bought softies I'd get the stiffest set up possible but maybe it makes no sense to try to mimic my hard boot gear.

[b0ardski]

However i'm probably in the Philw camp as I think dealing with deep powder or uber soft groomers is more of a board, and technique, specific issue than a boot/binding issue. I also don't buy the "go back to softboots" for powder days argument as I don't see skiers tossing their plastic aside and pulling out leather 'pow boots' when it gets deep. Instead skiers grab their pow specific skis. To further add to this argument note that a growing number of splitboarders are starting to switch to AT boots both because they tour much better and there is no loss of ride mode capability.

I've had some super soft groom days, (post 72cms of snow in three days), where I had to completely re-learn how to apply edge pressure. I've also caught my front edge while putting on the brakes in 12" of pow before i learned to feather it properly. But once you sort it all out it becomes rather magical and you become a much better all around rider. This all being said I tend to ride AM boards with stiffened UPZ ATBs rather than my softened UPZ RC10s; though in all honesty these boots have probably approached each other enough now in stiffness that I could get away with just riping the RC10s everywhere and only changing boards for the conditions.

All these things require time, patience, and exposure to variable conditions to learn; which as someone above said no one really wants to take the time to learn on a pow day.

Dave

25yrs of practice with plastic buckle boots in deep PNW snow puts me in a different category that the average hardbooter

since the '80s I've always asked people that question my gear choice "when's the last time you skied in leather lace up boots?"

I do "go back to soft boots" for deep powder, but that does not mean laces & straps(actually I can't go back to somewhere I've never been);

I go from 4 buckle 324s w/ plastic tongue ski boot liners on stiff narrow carve boards using an aggressive high angle attacking technique on groomers to 3 buckle 124s w/ soft thermoflex liners, leaving the cuff adjusters loose for lots of medial/lateral flex and leave the back boot in walk mode on wide soft flexing powder boards using an upright "surfy" technique. Same step in plates on every board.

Yea, I still think MikeT's comments ring true--hardboots great in deep untracked powder (what Philw and splitboarders are riding in), but challenging for balance in deep, uneven tracked out powder. Also, agree skis are inherently much easier and versatile in all conditions having poles and the ability to transfer weight from one ski to the other.

No issue what so ever with being too stiff to absorb buried terrain undulations or inconsistent snow from sunbaked mank to sastrugi to trapcrust to scraped off ice to 2' deep rutted chop that bounces/tosses lesser boards w/ sloppier interface.

I am an expert skier that loves bumps steeps & powder and prefer the stability of a single board and poles to independent boards that can get pulled or steered differently by bumps, stumps or hidden terrain variables; poles do help upper body stability if you use a forward facing stance(as opposed to duck).

Dave -

I enjoyed your company as well. I did not see Bob's account of the skier caught in an avalanche in HB. Where can I find the thread?

My analogy of filet mignon to meat loaf may not be apt. A better analogy might be:

You're invited to a steak dinner. You bring you favorite steak knives. When you arrive, your host announces that there won't be any steak. Instead you're having ice cream.

You try to eat the ice cream with a steak knife. You can do it but it isn't easy - even if you practice at it. The guy next to you pulls out a spoon and really enjoys the ice cream.

I'm sure that those who practice carving in all conditions get better & better at it. For me, if there is fresh snow & I have a board better suited to it, I will use that board.

I'm also not saying that soft boots are better than hard for soft snow conditions. My soft snow boards are set up with soft boots. I want to try hard boots in soft snow but I haven't yet had the opportunity.

Also, not having one tool for all conditions is frustrating. I too am always questioning whether the setup I'm on is the best choice. Maybe it is best in the AM but not so good in the PM.

We all seek the quiver killer - the Swiss Army Knife of snowboards. The best tool for every job.

I bring a knife, a spoon, fork, and a spork; I hold them all with the same firm grip my stepin bindings excel at:cool:

Edited February 20, 2014 by b0ardski

[bigwavedave]

So, here we are, on a forum for hardboot carvers who seem to be equally divided on the preferred footware for powder...that's interesting. At a recent gathering of hardboot carvers in Aspen, that happened to have epic snowfall, many skilled hardboot carvers were observed donning soft boots to ride their powder boards off into the wilds of Aspen's mountains...very interesting. Some were rumored not to have slipped their feet inside a plastic-buckled shell during the entire week!

I've almost exclusively ridden hardboots and carving sticks, never liked soft set-up (not on Minnesota firm), but always suspected they would be good in deep powder.

So, to see for myself, I ask the question and advice of those who prefer a soft set-up for powder, "What boot/binding set-ups are preferred amongst our carving brethren--for powder?" I have a powder board suitable for either set-up.

I'm gonna guess stiffer soft boots like Burton Driver or Solomon Malamutes? Bindings? All I remember are the plastic parts that break or fall off, and straps that hurt your feet.

If no one actually answers this, maybe I'll start a different thread.

[NWboarder]

Fully committed to hardboots, there hasn't been a day where I longed for softies... Having a culmination of pow days every season (maybe 7-10 at best) I like to focus my days riding on my true love. The last time I was in softies was my last for a reason. It threw me off my hardboot game for days to come. Its just different. To me, ridding soft and riding hard are different sports. They are as different as slalom water skiing and wakeboarding or lake canoeing and river kayaking.

Pow days are STILL great in hardboots. I just make a bodily shift to equate for varied conditions after throwing on my 23.5 waist VSR, grabbing my new graphite skipoles (thanks Boardski!!) and charge. My smile is as big as the softies riding behind me.

[Corey]

The first video on this link has me interested in softies again:

http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?41654-Ses-2014

That just looks fun! But I'm not buying more equipment for the one or two days per year that I'd see those conditions.

[two_ravens]

I've experienced some memorable powder days - mostly backcountry, two days lift served (one of them was this past Saturday!:)) - which I now enjoy on AT boots and my splitboard, because the boots are comfy and the setup totally rocks in powder.

But when I dream, I dream of carving........... :1luvu::1luvu::1luvu: